The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

3 minutes ago, bbishop said:

 

 

The gentleman reckoned the 17 pounder was the best anti tank gun of WW2.  In the British army, the next best was the 25 pounder which of course was a field gun but at close range could make a mess of any tank.  In the game of rock paper scissors, the 25 pounder had weight of shell, accuracy and rate of fire, but were in a fixed position and slow to traverse.  So they would be overwhelmed by tanks attacking on a broad front.  Their replacements (priests etc) had a low muzzle velocity so could not be used in an anti tank role.  Bill

Early 17 pdrs were mounted on the 25 pdr chassis in order to get them into service quickly, but as you say, they had limited traverse.

 

The Deputy Head of our upper school was an Artillery officer who continued to engage some tanks at close range (over open sights) with a 25pdr after the rest of the battery had been knocked out.  He was awarded a Military Cross for his courage:  He also spent the rest of his life with a steel plate in his head.

 

Not to be outdone the Deputy Head of the lower school had been awarded a Distinquished Flying Cross.

 

Even our French teacher, a very quiet, and mild mannered man, was the holder of a Military Medal.

 

Teachers were of a slightly different breed in those days.

[Happy Hippo]

14 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Thanks for the likes earlier - he ran his fastest time yet so was very pleased to have passed.

 

2.4km

Target time: 12:15

His time: 11:16

 

(Royal Marine target time: 10:20... )

Excellent work.

 

I know things have probably changed a lot since I was in the Army, but the Basic Fitness Test was 3 miles. 1.5 miles in 15 minutes as a squadded march/run, then a further 1.5 miles individually requiring a max time of 11:30 for under 30's, 12:00 for 30-35s, 12:30 for 35 to 40, and the over 40's had much longer.

For the last two years I was in, they'd stopped us running in boots for long distances as the early model Boot Combat High, was causing a lot of tendon problems, so we were instructed to run in trainers with 30 seconds taken off whatever the original time had been.

 

My last BFT before I was exempted  because of medical downgrading due to Arthritis in the ankle meant I physically could not run, was 09:35 aged 37yrs old.

 

I was getting faster the older I got!

[jamie92208]

19 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Early 17 pdrs were mounted on the 25 pdr chassis in order to get them into service quickly, but as you say, they had limited traverse.

 

The Deputy Head of our upper school was an Artillery officer who continued to engage some tanks at close range (over open sights) with a 25pdr after the rest of the battery had been knocked out.  He was awarded a Military Cross for his courage:  He also spent the rest of his life with a steel plate in his head.

 

Not to be outdone the Deputy Head of the lower school had been awarded a Distinquished Flying Cross.

 

Even our French teacher, a very quiet, and mild mannered man, was the holder of a Military Medal.

 

Teachers were of a slightly different breed in those days.

Of the ones I can remember. One English teacher had been a Chindit, the Headmaster had been wounded twice but was heavily involved in the planning of D day. A history master wheezed as he spoke, allegedly due to a bullet through a lung whilst flying a fighter. My art master was shot down over Germany and ended up in Stalag Luft 3. He was one of the main forgers of documents for the Great Escape and was in the hut waiting to go down the tunnel when it was discovered but got back to his own hut without detection. As you say a different breed.  I remember reading an obituary in the Times of an unasumi g Physics teacher from Hartlepool who held, IIRC, two George Crosses for defusing bombs.. i think one was on a ship in an Italian Harbour thst was full ofbpre positioned poison gas bombs. What cold courage.  After the war he was demobbed and just went back to teaching.

 

Jamie

[bbishop]

20 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Early 17 pdrs were mounted on the 25 pdr chassis in order to get them into service quickly, but as you say, they had limited traverse.

 

The Deputy Head of our upper school was an Artillery officer who continued to engage some tanks at close range (over open sights) with a 25pdr after the rest of the battery had been knocked out.  He was awarded a Military Cross for his courage:  He also spent the rest of his life with a steel plate in his head.

 

Not to be outdone the Deputy Head of the lower school had been awarded a Distinquished Flying Cross.

 

Even our French teacher, a very quiet, and mild mannered man, was the holder of a Military Medal.

 

Teachers were of a slightly different breed in those days.

I've skim read a page of my father's "with the 11th HAC in WW2", with a laconic description of firing on a column of tanks from 6,000 yards to open sights, until outflanked.  Bill

[Winslow Boy]

That reflects the impact of the war had on the population. My mother relates how when she was starting out just after the war she worked with men and women who had returned from the war 

to jobs they had prior to it. So you had people who had been shooting down enemy aircraft  now being the office junior.

[New Haven Neil]

Bill, is this wot you were hinting at?

 

[tomparryharry]

One of my QC colleagues was called 'sweat lip' by the shop floor staff (but never to his face, of course). One weekend was spent on nights putting in some new machinery, which I'd completed by about 1:00, so one or two of us spent yarning about some of the things we'd done, and where. 

 

My QC colleague was the gunnery Chiefie  on  HMS Antelope. Never really talked about it, just kept it quiet.  A different breed indeed. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by tomparryharry
Schpellinge

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, bbishop said:

Richard, do you use DCC?  Bill

Yes,  I have the NCE Powercab starter set.

[Adam88]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Excellent work.

 

I know things have probably changed a lot since I was in the Army, but the Basic Fitness Test was 3 miles. 1.5 miles in 15 minutes as a squadded march/run, then a further 1.5 miles individually requiring a max time of 11:30 for under 30's, 12:00 for 30-35s, 12:30 for 35 to 40, and the over 40's had much longer.

For the last two years I was in, they'd stopped us running in boots for long distances as the early model Boot Combat High, was causing a lot of tendon problems, so we were instructed to run in trainers with 30 seconds taken off whatever the original time had been.

 

My last BFT before I was exempted  because of medical downgrading due to Arthritis in the ankle meant I physically could not run, was 09:35 aged 37yrs old.

 

I was getting faster the older I got!

 

I once knew an ex-tanky and we reckoned that in his regiment (not RTR) they used a ring gauge rather than a BFT.  If you fitted the ring then you could get through the hatch otherwise you were out.  This chap had no line of sight from head to toes.

 

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

That reflects the impact of the war had on the population. My mother relates how when she was starting out just after the war she worked with men and women who had returned from the war 

to jobs they had prior to it. So you had people who had been shooting down enemy aircraft  now being the office junior.

Similar to what happened to my father. He was unlikely to be called up but volunteered as soon as he was 18 in 1941. He was however promised a job when he returned.  This was in 1949 and he was released from the army on compassionate grounds as his then wife was very ill, and he was able to care for her until,she died. He had been in N Africa, missed Italy due to wounds and went from Normandy to Berlin via Belsen before spending much of the post war time training recruits how not to injure themselves with weapons. The company tried to put him back where he had been years before not valuing any experience etc. The union supported him. He became a shop steward then, which is how he met my mother negotiating a pay rise for her and the other women doing inspection work. 
Tony

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Evening,

 

School inspected, nothing to report on that front. As for “war stories”, my great grandfather was supposedly in the Royal Artillery for a while until they figured out he worked below the “Three Ugly Sisters” in Liverpool. (Aka Clarence Dock Power Station, he had a lot to do with the turbines). So he was sent back. On a slightly more personal note, I lay claim to the title of the only person under the age of 18 to have been inside every flying Boeing B-17 in North America, including the ones crashed after 2008. However I’ve never flown in one, and I’m not sure I want to.  
 

My grandfather was evacuated from Liverpool with his mother to a small farm on the very very end northern most peninsula of Wales, in a village that google won’t let me spell, that was in 1941 I believe. I think he spent the remainder of the war there, and later took my dad and his siblings on vacation to the farm, the family who inhabited it (at least the descendants) still receive a Xmas card from us. The farm itself is long gone bar the house, in which the youngest daughter now in her late 80s resides. Sadly I haven’t visited the farm or Wales yet. My grandfather went on to join the Merchant Navy in 1960. The American side of the family had some great uncles in D-Day, who from what I can gather were some of the first US troops in Germany. As an aside, here’s a photo I took of “ Diamond Lil” (a B-24) visiting Tulsa in 2018.

 

Douglas

[polybear]

9 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

On a slightly more personal note, I lay claim to the title of the only person under the age of 18 to have been inside every flying Boeing B-17 in North America, including the ones crashed after 2008. However I’ve never flown in one, and I’m not sure I want to.  

 

 

 

Don't want a flight in a B-17?  Fear not, there's a queue of ER's more than willing to take your place....

The Q starts behind Bear, should anyone feel unsure.

 

In other news:

Blood and virus tests completed.  The car was due to go in next monday for a 4 year service & MOT.  As of this morning this has now grown to those tasks plus gearbox off to sort a sticky clutch actuating arm.  Buggeration.  A new clutch may or may not be fitted at the same time (only 32K miles) depending on condition.  Bye bye to the thick end of a grand. Sh1t

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Don't want a flight in a B-17?  Fear not, there's a queue of ER's more than willing to take your place....

The Q starts behind Bear, should anyone feel unsure.

I'm not so sure.

 

I've watched a number of in cockpit video's over the years and although not a pilot, I'm not convinced that some of these elderly gentlemen who fly these aircraft are really up to the job in hand.  It's not that they can't fly, but I'd question their competence currency on these airframes.  (Dave will understand what I mean by that.)  This is doubly important if they are taking up enthusiasts for a ride.

 

I've been in military aircraft, (Puma) where the pilot having signed for the aircraft and taxied out, decided to return to dispersal because he was not happy with the feel of it, and we hadn't even left the ground!  Not a bold pilot: He got my vote!

 

My commiserations over the car servicing, it's costly enough for me too and I have a son that can do most of the work I can't. (Won't now I'm older and wiser!).

 

As far as cars are concerned, I'm seriously looking at getting an electric car for the next main vehicle.  On my current annual mileage, it ought to see me to the end of my driving days! (Albeit not on a single charge.)

 

My next non railway project will be a bogie/soapbox racer/go kart type contraption for the grandchildren.  

 

However, looking on Ebay and the like has shown that pram  or pushchair wheels are not like they used to be.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[TheQ]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Don't want a flight in a B-17?  Fear not, there's a queue of ER's more than willing to take your place....

The Q starts behind Bear, should anyone feel unsure.

 

In other news:

Blood and virus tests completed.  The car was due to go in next monday for a 4 year service & MOT.  As of this morning this has now grown to those tasks plus gearbox off to sort a sticky clutch actuating arm.  Buggeration.  A new clutch may or may not be fitted at the same time (only 32K miles) depending on condition.  Bye bye to the thick end of a grand. Sh1t

oi!!! why should I be behind the Bear?

[Stubby47]

16 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

that pram  or pushchair wheels are not like they used to be.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/wheel/p14747

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

However, looking on Ebay and the like has shown that pram  or pushchair wheels are not like they used to be.

 

They started "going south" even when I was a cub; metal hubs started to give way to plastic, with two press-fit metal rings either side to which the spokes were attached.  Great until you go bombing round a corner.......

Four small bike wheels would be my choice - proper wheel bearings for a start.  Though they weren't designed for cornering forces either.

 

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

oi!!! why should I be behind the Bear?

 

You've obviously never seen the remains of a corpse after it's been ripped to bits by a Bear......

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

oi!!! why should I be behind the Bear?

It is far better to be behind an angry bear than to have an angry bear behind you.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Evening,

 

More school today, and my one day of online per week tomorrow. Several big tests on Thursday (ie one massive Bio one) so may be online less than usual. 
 

Yesterday the improvements made to the tender of “The George” were competed, and look quite good IMHO. In other more full size news, the museum in which this massive Frisco 4-8-4 (one of only two preserved locos in Tulsa) has begun construction. Said engine itself has a rather interesting preservation story. She was found rotting in a scrapyard around 2003 in Oklahoma City (the state capital, about 90 miles from Tulsa) and from what I know was purchased by a wealthy benefactor with intentions to return her to steam. I believe she has a highly unsafe amount of broken firebox stays so that plan was quickly shelved. As a result of this cosmetic restoration and moving to Tulsa began. Currently a Dutch barn is being built over her right side, which will become the center of the “Route 66 Heritage Museum”, of which she is a part.
 

I myself have never worked on the engine but drive past her every weekend now to get to the karting track. Quite a nice engine though, if you fancy a model Lionel makes one in O gauge, for the wee sum of $1400.

 

Douglas

Edited October 7, 2020 by Florence Locomotive Works

[J. S. Bach]

On 05/10/2020 at 21:00, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Evening,  ...snip... My grandfather was evacuated from Liverpool with his mother to a small farm on the very very end northern most peninsula of Wales, in a village that google won’t let me spell, that was in 1941 I believe. I think he spent the remainder of the war there, ...snip...

Douglas

My parents were migratory war workers and ended up at the Glenn L. Martin bomber plant outside of Baltimore, Maryland. Dad worked on the tool crib and Mother was a "Rosie the Riveter" for about a week or so. She raised so much he!! that management transferred her to an office position (where her skills were). I suspect that it was just as important to count the rivets as it was to drive them.

[roundhouse]

On 06/10/2020 at 02:00, Florence Locomotive Works said:

 As an aside, here’s a photo I took of “ Diamond Lil” (a B-24) visiting Tulsa in 2018.

 

Douglas

We saw these two take off at Seattle Boeing field back in 2006.

 

Concorde was in the museum part.

Edited October 7, 2020 by roundhouse

[Happy Hippo]

The weather is a little better today, which is fortunate, as we'd booked a visit to Attingham Park.

 

Keeping with the aviation theme, just down the road is the remains of the airfield at Atcham which was used as a training base during WWII for the USAAF 495th Fighter Training Group. 

 

They  mainly operated P47 Thunderbolts, although P38 Lightnings had also been seen there.

 

Prior to the USAAF taking over, the RAF had operated a number of Spitfire Squadrons from Atcham and the initial American involvement had also been with Spitfires.

 

 

Very little now remains, although you can still make out the runways from the satellite pictures, and the B4394 runs parallel to north side of the remains of the diagonal runway  which runs top right to bottom left in the picture.

[Northroader]

Probably the best reminder of the USAAFs time at Atcham is at the Mytton and Mermaid, with the gilt figure of the mermaid on the wall outside. After they’d had a few, the guys used to have some target practice with their sidearms.

[jamie92208]

Mention was made of M10's a few days ago. I never knew what an M10 was. Today I gave finally finished reading my first whole book written in French. It's a history of the resistance in south western France. The last couple of chapters deal with the final liberation of the Greman pockets at the mouth of The Gironde estuary, Pont de Grave, Royan, ile d'Oleron and La Rochelle.  These took place in April and early May 1945 with the Resistance fighters fighting alongside regular French units. They had some tanks, Shermans and Somuas but mention was made of M10's which were effective against the many blockhouses.  It's been a fascinating read. At least I knew what an M10 was when I came to that part.  La Rochelle was the ladt prefecture in France to be liberated and there is still a lot of bitterness in the area about the behaviour of the occupying troops.

 

Jamie

[tomparryharry]

I must confess that I like old aircraft, but I also have slight misgivings about flying in one. Sure, it's going to be A1 condition, but some of my predecessors did this for real, and being a Mong isn't my sort of thing. 

 

keeping my feet on the ground,  I've met so-called locomotive 'drivers' whom I wouldn't touch with a piece of bread, let alone an expensive loco, and, more important, perhaps several hundred passengers aboard.  "I've done XXX years on the footplate, I know what I'm doing!" This translates to " I've seen all of the Thomas Books, and I had a drivers hat as a Christmas present... " Kim offered to buy me a flying experience in one of the 2-seater Spitfires, but I felt it was sacrilege. 

 

The last time I flew was quite exhilarating. Looking down at the ground, white clouds in the sky...  Then I woke up when the bus conductor wanted my ticket...  

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I've met so-called locomotive 'drivers' whom I wouldn't touch with a piece of bread, let alone an expensive loco, and, more important, perhaps several hundred passengers aboard. 

So have I. Let's take Ginger. He had been working the 1716 Vic - Sheerness, and was, as he would, haring down Sole Street Bank towards the very severe curves on the viaduct before Rochester Bridge Junction. Leaving his braking until the last possible moment, it was at then that he discovered that the rear 4 car - of 12 - had very little in the way of brakes. "Christ, Dud - I thought I was going over the top!" he told me some hours later. Bless.