The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

I just had a pleasant surprise on eBay when  a book I had for sale, doubled in price in the last few minutes.  And I was on a £1.00 max seller fee!

 

Perhaps I ought to start selling my 4mm scale 64xx pannier tanks?

 

 

 

Hell's Teeth: Page 80 already!

Edited October 4, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Danemouth]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

Perhaps I ought to start selling my 4mm scale 64xx pannier tanks?

 

 

Sell your Panniers !!! Hells Teeth - you'll be drummed out  of TNM 

 

Dave

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Danemouth
Missing word

[Tony_S]

16 minutes ago, Danemouth said:

 

Sell  Panniers !!! Hells Teeth - you'll be drummed out  of TNM 

 

Dave

 

I don’t think I have ever bought a 4mm pannier tank on eBay, mainly from well known former retailers of model railway items. Pannier tanks come into the category of odd locos I like even though I don’t model the appropriate area. Pannier  and Prairie tanks used to be visible from our back garden when I lived in Somerset as a small child. 

[bbishop]

Panniers = SNCB class 51

 

Off to LAS soon so keep chatting.  A discussion on the class 51 would be appreciated.  Bill

[jamie92208]

27 minutes ago, bbishop said:

Panniers = SNCB class 51

 

Off to LAS soon so keep chatting.  A discussion on the class 51 would be appreciated.  Bill

I'd rather talk about 9F' though will they do.   If I ever won the lottery, which is unlikely as I don't do it, I would pay for the restoration of one. Fabulous locos that I have an attachment to.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

32 minutes ago, bbishop said:

Panniers = SNCB class 51

 

Off to LAS soon so keep chatting.  A discussion on the class 51 would be appreciated.  Bill

The only SNCB Class 51 I can remember seeing was the big Belgian Co-Cos running through Vielsalm in the Belgian Ardennes.

 

We had gone from Antwerp to Vielsalm for an adventure training camp, and it was here we found out about the lack of trespass laws that seemed common in Belgium at the time.  The training officer of the local Belgian infantry unit who were hosting our visit, took us to all their abseil sites.  The 'baby' slope was shared with a deep cutting used by the main line into Luxembourg.

 

The safety brief was short and to the point,  keep out of the trains way!

 

Although the cutting was quite deep, it was also quite wide, so there was plenty of room either side of the tracks to stand clear.

 

The Belgian drivers were obviously quite used to the spectacle of some troops in the cutting as we used to get a toot and a wave as they passed.

 

I also managed to get a visit to the signal box at Trois Ponts.

 

Of real interest was the large amount of WWII artifacts around the area.  Sherman tank turrets  dotted around on the routes into Bastogne as markers to where the German advance was halted.  

 

King Tiger 213 parked in the village square at Le Gleize.

 

M10 Tank Destroyer at Bastogne

[Oldddudders]

The Ardennes is smashing country. Deb and I visited several times for the 24 hrs race at Spa-Francorchamps. A good day's drive from home, and the first time we were amused to pass through places called Bra and Coo! Our last visit in 2012 required us to drive through Trois Ponts en route to and from our hotel in Les Forges, and I think there was a Ford dealership right opposite the railway bridge, with a big banner proclaiming the new Fiesta with a 1-litre 100bhp engine. This is what Sherry now drives.....

[jamie92208]

It's ben a shed morning as Beth was giving a guitar lesson to a friend. I looked but couldn't find any Class 51's.  A few 4F's, 3F's, 2F's  and 1F's were seen. I got another 40 sq metres of floorcsealed with dilute PVA.  Anyone got any ballasting to do as I have a gallon or so left over.  

 

Then as that was quite a quick job I decided to hang some decorations. No not for a certain winter festival but railway related. First up was a framed 2 chain plan of Woodlesford, then a stayion sign from Giggleswick.  Last was a framed set of smallish pictures of Stanier Pacifics. Now that's artwork.  

 

Tomorrow will be floor painting time.

 

Jamie

[Stubby47]

Now sat outside the local leisure centre whilst No. 2 son does his treadmill running assessment for the Navy. This should have been in March, but got cancelled. He's off to HMS Raleigh next month and has just realised he is effectively leaving home.

[petethemole]

The M10 at Bastogne is the British conversion 'Achilles', mounting the 17 pounder anti tank gun.

[Happy Hippo]

48 minutes ago, petethemole said:

The M10 at Bastogne is the British conversion 'Achilles', mounting the 17 pounder anti tank gun.

An interesting fact about the M10 was that both variants mounted a 3" gun which had started life as an anti aircraft gun.

 

The UK version was fitted with the 17 pdr high velocity a/a gun which, despite being the same calibre, packed far more punch that the  3" gun fitted by the Americans.

 

Interestingly the much vaunted 88mm gun used by the Germans was originally an anti aircraft gun.

 

Back to the M10:  The British version has been called Achilles, whilst it's American counterpart was  called a Wolverine.  Where these names came from is up for discussion as the official title for the M10 was 3" Gun Motor Carriage.  The M10 was never afforded a name during the war such as Grant/Lee/Sherman/Priest/Bishop etc.

 

Basically they were a mobile anti tank gun, but were not tanks as they had open topped turrets.  As such in British use they were issued not to armoured regiments, but to Royal Artillery units.

 

In fact the RA retained the heavy anti tank role for the British army all the way up to the introduction of a/t guided missiles.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

  Anyone got any ballasting to do as I have a gallon or so left over.  

Jamie

No, but I do have a coffee tin full of lead shot still waiting to come your way.

[jamie92208]

That 17 pdr must have been a very good weapon as ISTR that itvwas fitted to the first few marks of the Centurion.  It must have been developed pre war in a AA role.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

When I was sweeping some of the shed floor this morning it brought back a memory of when it was first swept. Keith, who was in 5RTR and I were clearing up and sweeping and he said it was like sweeping a tank hangar.  When he was on the staff at Bovington he used to have to instruct various groups of officers. He took great delight in giving them the task of sweeping the hangars after lunch on a Friday if they had done badly on the range. 

 

Jamie

Edited October 5, 2020 by jamie92208

[Happy Hippo]

2 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

That 17 pdr must have been a very good weapon as ISTR that it was fitted to the first few marks of the Centurion.  It must have been developed pre war in a AA role.

 

Jamie

The development is a bit murky but since Vickers built both the anti tank and anti aircraft versions, there must have been some cross fertilisation.  The AA version was a 20 pdr and was used in an A/T role during the Western Desert campaign as a stop gap. (It had been developed in the 1930's.)  Development of the dedicated 17 pdr A/T gun started soon after the Western Desert campaign started!  They were definitely in service by 1943.

 

The Cent went through a number of guns.

 

As you say the early versions had a 17 pdr, this was then replaced with an 84 mm 20 pdr, which in turn was replaced by the venerable L7 105 mm gun in the Mk 5.  The largest gun fitted was in one of the AVRE versions which was a 165mm Howitzer (for demolitions).

 

As the tanks were upgraded Istr some of the older versions  were converted into various sub variants such as recovery vehicles etc.  the rest were completely rebuilt to the then current build standard.

 

The Centurion was probably one of the most successful post war tanks ever built, when you take into account the numbers produced, the number of countries operating them and the length of time they were in service.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

27 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

When I was sweeping some of the shed floor this morning it brought back a memory of when it was first swept. Keith, who was in 5RTR and I were clearing up and sweeping and he said it was like sweeping a tank hangar.  When he was on the staff at Bovington he used to have to instruct various groups of officers. He took great delight in giving them the task of sweeping the hangars after lunch on a Friday if they had done badly on the range. 

 

Jamie

I use a vacuum cleaner to clean my driveway:

 

 

 

[Barry O]

First Prototype 17 pounder was built at ROF Narnbow in late 1943..no real drawings to work to. It was designed for "killing" Tiger tanks.. an old photo kept ar the factort included the gents who made it, the gun itself and a blacboard with a message... "who is smiling now Mr Tiger?

 

Vickers made a different gun with a different muzzle velocity and calibre. Not quite as good as the 17 pounder but easier to fit apparently.

 

 Baz

[Steamport Southport]

I've been buying the reissues of the AIrfix tanks and guns.

 

Not for any serious modelling just because I either had them as a kid or wanted them. Not quite as detailed as modern kits but you can't really complain when they are well under a tenner each.

 

Some of the British ones might end up as loads for Warwells/Warflats though.

[Winslow Boy]

I believe the need for a tiger killer was because when one of the tanks was captured intact following the Torch landings it was found to be so more advanced than the allied tanks that it was like comparing a ww1 by plane to that of a supersonic jet. The only advantage the allies had was in a superiority of numbers and the manufacturing ability to replace destroyed tanks. Not for nothing did the Germans call the allied tanks tommy cookers. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Winslow Boy

[newbryford]

On 04/10/2020 at 16:55, Happy Hippo said:

 

 

Perhaps I ought to start selling my 4mm scale 64xx pannier tanks?

 

 

 

 

I bet you have to pay people to take them................

 

[Happy Hippo]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

I bet you have to pay people to take them................

 

Paddy Power would be paying people to get you onto their books!

 

Looking on 'the Bay' it would seem that the second hand 64xx are currently commanding prices in excess of what I paid for them.  As are the Hornby eight coupled tank locos.

 

The Hornby ATW Class 153 are into three figures so I might have to seriously consider my options as regards hanging onto them or flogging them off.

 

I might even be able to afford some track in 7.25" gauge and a flat wagon kit.

[Happy Hippo]

Now I have a query along the lines of how do you do it?

 

Having opted for Dingham couplings to provide either hands free using electro magnets, or very easy hands on uncoupling and coupling using a shunter's pole, my thoughts turned to another aspect of the railway that gets some modellers in a right froth:  That of front and tail lamps.

 

Since my railways are invariable end to end and the Dingham's really don't allow turning of complete trains, I have the predicament of what lamps the are at the head and tail of trains, and if the train is lamped correctly in one direction, what should I do when the loco runs around to the tail of the train.  I am minded to have a lamp at each end of locos, coaching rakes and brake vans, but that might look at bit odd as the lamps will at one point be the wrong colour, and what do you do about double ended brake vans as to operate with lamps at both end is going to make it look not unlike a very important train....which it is not. (I knew the GW Toad had an advantage when it came to lamps!!)

 

So do you miss out the lamps, put them at both ends, or think that if you think using three links is easy opt to have more fun lamping and un-lamping every train that stops and then reforms?

[bbishop]

Some years ago I was chatting to someone at the (now closed) Firepower museum in Woolwich.  It was actually whilst handing over my mother's medals for safe keeping.  They included her Active Service 1939-45 medal; as she was on searchlights she was regarded as artillery.  As was my father, on 25 pounders in the Western Desert until Knightsbridge.

 

The gentleman reckoned the 17 pounder was the best anti tank gun of WW2.  In the British army, the next best was the 25 pounder which of course was a field gun but at close range could make a mess of any tank.  In the game of rock paper scissors, the 25 pounder had weight of shell, accuracy and rate of fire, but were in a fixed position and slow to traverse.  So they would be overwhelmed by tanks attacking on a broad front.  Their replacements (priests etc) had a low muzzle velocity so could not be used in an anti tank role.  Bill

[Stubby47]

Thanks for the likes earlier - he ran his fastest time yet so was very pleased to have passed.

 

2.4km

Target time: 12:15

His time: 11:16

 

(Royal Marine target time: 10:30... )

Edited October 5, 2020 by Stubby47

[bbishop]

1 minute ago, Happy Hippo said:

Now I have a query along the lines of how do you do it?

 

Having opted for Dingham couplings to provide either hands free using electro magnets, or very easy hands on uncoupling and coupling using a shunter's pole, my thoughts turned to another aspect of the railway that gets some modellers in a right froth:  That of front and tail lamps.

 

Since my railways are invariable end to end and the Dingham's really don't allow turning of complete trains, I have the predicament of what lamps the are at the head and tail of trains, and if the train is lamped correctly in one direction, what should I do when the loco runs around to the tail of the train.  I am minded to have a lamp at each end of locos, coaching rakes and brake vans, but that might look at bit odd as the lamps will at one point be the wrong colour, and what do you do about double ended brake vans as to operate with lamps at both end is going to make it look not unlike a very important train....which it is not. (I knew the GW Toad had an advantage when it came to lamps!!)

 

So do you miss out the lamps, put them at both ends, or think that if you think using three links is easy opt to have more fun lamping and un-lamping every train that stops and then reforms?

Richard, do you use DCC?  Bill