The Night Mail

[DenysW]

I find that scale speed induces lack of drama, also a problem to bring in the younger punters. If you see a real (12" = 1') steam locomotive reverse around its train, there are things to see and experience even if it takes 5-10 minutes. On a model layout, well no.

 

And once some-one has introduced you to the phrase 'roundy-roundy' you are scarred for life when you see a layout that does nothing more interesting than roar (or trundle) around in a loop.

[rockershovel]

19 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

My family started leaving Dalston nearly 100 years ago. My grandparents went to Gidea Park in the early 30's. My grandfather was a cabinet maker as was his father and grandfather. They produced bespoke furniture for the west end stores. The workshops were in the arches under the western side of Broad Street Station. A major reason for more of the family moving out was the Blitz, the house my mum was born in was semi detached and the other half was bombed and had to be demolished. Then in the 1950's a lot of properties were compulsorily purchased for slum clearance.

My godmothers' first husband was also a cabinet maker in a similar line, it seems to have been quite a busy line of business. I suppose the timber came into Pool of London? I do know he made "Austerity" furniture in the rationing years: high quality stuff, a wardrobe and dressing table given to my mother as a wedding present in 1947 are still in use in my sisters house to this day. 

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, simontaylor484 said:

My first date with the Mrs was a day out in Bakewell. We drove down via Sheffield and Baslow. We had a lovely meak in a hotel in front of s roaring fire. It was there that u decided I wanted to marry her its 21 years ago now

I did a week above and underground surveying on the Staffordshire peak district in the Manifold valley in my 2nd year at Uni

Where did you do underground surveying? Middleton Mine? 

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Indonesian spuds are really highly sought after, they're especially suitable for making potato perkedel (an Indonesian potato cake, delicious), however the Indonesian tatties are very expensive. We usually buy Chinese alternatives which are fine and cheap. Weirdly, the price hierarcy is Indonesian, then American, Australian and Chinese as the cheap option. I find it odd that Indonesian tatties are the most expensive (and by quite a margin) when Indonesia is next door and is not an especially high cost economy (and certainly not compared to Australia and the US).

 

On Asian cultures, this may seem a bit disingenuous but I find Asian culture and societies to be both more different and more alike than generally thought. I can only really speak about Indonesia and to a lesser extent Singapore, but the people have the same emotions, love their families, mourn when people die, have aspirations for a better life etc. I find them to be human beings the same as any others. However, it's also true that there is a different understanding of the place of individuals vs. society, and people tend to have a very different world view. And of course there are differences between societies which grew out of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and those grounded in Islam (Indonesia) or a mix of Buddhism, Islam, Hindu and Christian traditions (Singapore). 

I can only say that for all my travels, I have never really been anywhere which called "stay here", and I've experienced quite a few which I left behind with no regrets. 

 

One thing I've always been thankful for, is a freedom from the delusion that women young enough to be (at least) my daughter, are smitten by my ineffable charm and rakish sang-froid. It's a very common problem among expats, I find...

 

Had circumstances been otherwise I might well have dropped anchor in the USA, but for (then) good and sufficient reasons, didn't. I've often suspected that Canada might have been that place, but a brief spell there in the late 70s isn't enough to judge; however I have family there which counts for a lot, and they seem generally more British than the Americans....

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by rockershovel

[simontaylor484]

21 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Where did you do underground surveying? Middleton Mine? 

I can't remember the name of the mine. I can tell you the Adit was knee deep in water. The top side survey net involved the church spires of Grindon and Butterton and we stayed in Alstonefield

[polybear]

2 hours ago, DenysW said:

I may have walked past @polybear as I did eavesdrop the acronym LDC used in normal conversation.

 

Not this Bear......

 

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

One of the problems exhibitors encounter is layout height.  Do you pitch is so that the operators do not end up suffering from sore backs due to leaning over all day, or do you pitch the height to suit small children.

 

 

At the excellent CMRA Exhibition at Stevenage they used to loan periscopes (IIRC a small deposit was payable) so that young children and those in wheelchairs could see layouts without problem.

Sadly the future of that exhibition may well be in doubt, if I understand correctly 😢

 

[rockershovel]

45 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

I can't remember the name of the mine. I can tell you the Adit was knee deep in water. The top side survey net involved the church spires of Grindon and Butterton and we stayed in Alstonefield

Long, wet adit between Grindon and Butterstone suggests Botstone Mine, but it could have been one of the Ecton mines which revolved around long, wet adit still accessible today 

[Happy Hippo]

44 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

 

 

At the excellent CMRA Exhibition at Stevenage they used to loan periscopes (IIRC a small deposit was payable) so that young children and those in wheelchairs could see layouts without problem.

 

I once came up with a stunning plan to make a wheelchair elevator to observe my layout.

 

I pitched the idea to the mobility people hoping for a grant, but my simple plan of using a motorcycle type hoist to lift the chair was frowned upon.

 

Instead they proposed a ramp which needed a shallow angle with all sorts of guards and barriers.  In a straight line it would have been around 60 feet long and as it would have had to have fitted into the same length as the layout, required a couple of hairpin bends in it to shorten the overall length.  It would have stopped anyone else getting within about 3 metres of the front of the layout.

 

It would  also have needed it's own van to get to shows, so the idea was quietly and quickly kicked into touch.

 

I do get very annoyed with some of the half hearted efforts that companies put in as a sop to those with mobility issues.  The best example being a power operated door for wheelchair users..... at the top of a flight of steps!

 

Do not get me started on so called journalists who persist in using the term wheelchair bound when referring to a wheelchair users.  They are NOT bound to their wheelchairs. They merely use them as an aid to mobility.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

At the excellent CMRA Exhibition at Stevenage they used to loan periscopes (IIRC a small deposit was payable) so that young children and those in wheelchairs could see layouts without problem.

Sadly the future of that exhibition may well be in doubt, if I understand correctly 😢

The above mentioned Brian (Wheels) Stubbles was exhibiting at a CMRA exhibition and they were fully aware of his needs. So they allocated a space for his layout with no step access and close to the disabled toilets. When he arrived he found another layout being set up in his allocated space. The other layout owner refused to move as it was his 'regular' space that he always had. In the end Brian, having travelled some distance agreed to use the space allocated to the other exhibitor. But in doing so he could only access the disabled toilets by going outside the building and crossing a gravelled area. A complaint was made to the organisers pointing out that they were in breach of disabled legislation. In the end the other exhibitor was blacklisted by many clubs. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Happy Hippo]

4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The above mentioned Brian (Wheels) Stubbles was exhibiting at a CMRA exhibition and they were fully aware of his needs. So they allocated a space for his layout with no step access and close to the disabled toilets. When he arrived he found another layout being set up in his allocated space. The other layout owner refused to move as it was his 'regular' space that he always had. In the end Brian, having travelled some distance agreed to use the space allocated to the other exhibitor. But in doing so he could only access the disabled toilets by going outside the building and crossing a gravelled area. A complaint was made to the organisers pointing out that they were in breach of disabled legislation. In the end the other exhibitor was blacklisted by many clubs. 

I have to say that the club stewards should have been monitoring the set up arrangements and told the pillock where to go pdq.

[PhilJ W]

10 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I have to say that the club stewards should have been monitoring the set up arrangements and told the pillock where to go pdq.

Problem was he was a committee member of the club which he regarded as his own fiefdom and the other committee members were in awe of him and his little clique. However the secretary changed a couple of years later and his clique had diminished due to some dying and others moving away. In the end he quit the club in a huff and that was the last that was seen of him. 

[iL Dottore]

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

My family started leaving Dalston nearly 100 years ago. My grandparents went to Gidea Park in the early 30's. ….A major reason for more of the family moving out was the Blitz, the house my mum was born in was semi detached and the other half was bombed and had to be demolished. Then in the 1950's a lot of properties were compulsorily purchased for slum clearance.

Gidea Park - my old stomping grounds until I was about 13.
 

I have fond memories of taking the 247 bus (that went past the Gidea Park library) at least twice a week for library book drop-off and pick up.

 

The ironic thing is that those London properties and areas that weren’t compulsorily purchased for slum clearance and thus avoided the whole “turn a local neighbourhood into a ghastly concrete tower block and windswept wasteland“ sort of thing, have now been done up during the yuppie influx/gentrification of the 80s and later and are now going for silly money.

 

If I had known back in 1968 what I know now (and had had a little bit more than my pocket money to play with) I could’ve bought huge swathes of property in Hoxton, Shoreditch, Dalston (and other similar places) and made a fortune by today as they were – by London standards – pretty much giving properties away in those areas in the 60s.

 

Mind you, back then Shoreditch was a really rough area – so rough that the local plod* would only patrol in pairs!

 

*Who were pretty tough lads compared with today, none of that “could you kindly unstick yourself from the roadway Mr eco-protester, pretty please“ back then 🤣

Edited August 21, 2022 by iL Dottore

[polybear]

54 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The above mentioned Brian (Wheels) Stubbles was exhibiting at a CMRA exhibition and they were fully aware of his needs. So they allocated a space for his layout with no step access and close to the disabled toilets. When he arrived he found another layout being set up in his allocated space. The other layout owner refused to move as it was his 'regular' space that he always had.

 

You appear to have spelt (spelled?) "owner" incorrectly - it should be A-R-5-E-H-O-L-E....

 

54 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

In the end the other exhibitor was blacklisted by many clubs. 

 

Oh good.

[PhilJ W]

5 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

If I had known back in 1968 what I know now (and had had a little bit more than my pocket money to play with) I could’ve bought huge swathes of property in Hoxton, Shoreditch, Dalston (and other similar places) and made a fortune by today as they were – by London standards – pretty much giving properties away in those areas in the 60s.

The house that my mum was born in, (late Victorian or early Edwardian) was on the market a couple of years ago for £2.5 Million.

[PhilJ W]

The house in Dalston in which my mum was born was the sort of property aimed at senior clerical staff, chief clerk in a bank for example and were very well built. I had some relatives living in the same street on the other side in a house that was a lot larger being over four floors, semi basement, first, second and garret and with a two storey 'tunnel back'. They were late Victorian construction but were Jerry built. The tunnel back was coming away from the rest of the house because it had not been tied to the house when it was built. It was condemned as a slum by the local council and was demolished c. 1970.

Edited August 21, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Tony_S]

23 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Gidea Park - my old stomping grounds until I was about 13.

Did you go to Royal Liberty School?

[Northmoor]

18 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

If I had known back in 1968 what I know now (and had had a little bit more than my pocket money to play with) I could’ve bought huge swathes of property in Hoxton, Shoreditch, Dalston (and other similar places) and made a fortune by today as they were – by London standards – pretty much giving properties away in those areas in the 60s.

 

It is difficult to get London residents born after the mid-80s to believe that until around the time they were born, large parts of the capital were depopulating and commuting was declining.  The Isle of Dogs for instance, was somewhere that the local authority had difficulty getting people to fill its flats; the public transport to that area consisted of a single bus route to the City.

[AndyID]

23 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

You appear to have spelt (spelled?) 

Spelt is a grain a bit like wheat.

[PhilJ W]

9 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

It is difficult to get London residents born after the mid-80s to believe that until around the time they were born, large parts of the capital were depopulating and commuting was declining.  The Isle of Dogs for instance, was somewhere that the local authority had difficulty getting people to fill its flats; the public transport to that area consisted of a single bus route to the City.

I recall a TV documentary* from the 60's (it was in black and white) showing what things might be like in the future. It featured the usual rubbish about flying cars etc. But one thing that stood out was a city gent going to work from a two up/two down in the East End of London suggesting that that was possible in the future that such areas would be gentrified. *The way some car drivers behave, no thank you.

Edited August 21, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Tony_S]

5 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Spelt is a grain a bit like wheat.

I have made spelt bread. I used a Roman army recipe so Matthew could take it to school for a Roman snack one of the teachers was organising for an after school club. 

[iL Dottore]

23 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

Did you go to Royal Liberty School?

I really don’t recall, to be honest. A quick Google search for schools in Romford, Hornchurch and Gidea Park in the 1960s gave me a fair amount of material, but there were no names there that rang a bell.

 

All that I can recall was that it was a fee paying prep school, Beyond which it is a blank (and as much as I might rack my brains, I can only - and vaguely – remember two or three episodes from my schooling at the time).

[iL Dottore]

Spelt vs Spelled - basically British English (spelt) vs US English (spelled) although sometimes ”spelled” is used in by British English speakers/writers.

 

I was taught (as a grubby 1960s skoolboy in the UK) to use “spelt”

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, simontaylor484 said:

I use the train if I want to go to Leeds, There is a good service from here and its cheaper than parking. Iast time me and the youngest went to Morley to pick up Vikingar the Volvo by train. 

 

You would have had a good hike up from the station.  Such a pity that the line through Morley High closed.

 

Jamie

[PhilJ W]

41 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I have made spelt bread. I used a Roman army recipe so Matthew could take it to school for a Roman snack one of the teachers was organising for an after school club. 

Somehow I don't think they included garum made the Roman way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garum

[AndyID]

58 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Spelt vs Spelled - basically British English (spelt) vs US English (spelled) although sometimes ”spelled” is used in by British English speakers/writers.

 

I was taught (as a grubby 1960s skoolboy in the UK) to use “spelt”

 

I seem to remember it was "spelled" in Scotland in the 50s but maybe I've become too accustomed to the US spelling. The
substitution of "t" for "ed" on verbs doesn't seem quite right to me now.