Why is their no budget range for the younger modeller to get into this hobby?

[F-UnitMad]

On 30/08/2020 at 19:31, 1E BoY said:

(Re Playcraft) They are OO/HO scale and in most cases nearer HO but some most/all dimensions are dubious.

Just corrected that for you the wagons in particular seemed to be HO in height but OO in width, much like the original Lima British models.

Some years ago now when I had a go at British HO I tried to convert a Playcraft '21/29' to a D63xx/Class 22, on a Mehano chassis. It involved a lot of cut'n'shut work, and scratchbuilt bogie sideframes. This is as far as it got....

[PatB]

ISTR there was a later incarnation of the Playcraft diesel that used a rather crude motor bogie (a backward step) and, possibly, a somewhat simplified body moulding. Memory based on a mid/late 70s review in MRC or similar. 

[Rockalaucher101]

Right well I just saw this advertised by hattons. This is exactly what I was talking about, an engine thats out and about today with the appropriate coaching stock.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/british-railways-60163-tornado-the-aberdonian-train-pack-era-11.html

['CHARD]

On 29/08/2020 at 20:26, 009 micro modeller said:

 

 I didn’t notice any Woodland Scenics stuff either but that’s American so may be harder to restock under current circumstances.

 

U.S in origin, yes, but freely distributed from Barwell in Leicestershire.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Right well I just saw this advertised by hattons. This is exactly what I was talking about, an engine thats out and about today with the appropriate coaching stock.

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/british-railways-60163-tornado-the-aberdonian-train-pack-era-11.html

 

However, does it fit in with the "budget" tag?

 

Even at a discount of £180, it's still quite a lot of money for most. I would put that near the top price of budget train sets and it doesn't even have track, controller, etc.

 

This does. Although the Tornado pack is better, I can see more of the general public wanting the Scotsman set.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513738/hornby_r1255m_flying_scotsman_starter_train_set/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[Rockalaucher101]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

However, does it fit in with the "budget" tag?

 

Even at a discount of £180, it's still quite a lot of money for most. I would put that near the top price of budget train sets and it doesn't even have track, controller, etc.

 

This does. Although the Tornado pack is better, I can see more of the general public wanting the Scotsman set.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513738/hornby_r1255m_flying_scotsman_starter_train_set/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

That's true, it is a bit more expensive than the scotsman set but its not really in the condition you see it today. 

If the Scotsman train set was in BR green with deflectors and came with MK1's I feel it'd appeal to a wider audience.

[Zomboid]

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

However, does it fit in with the "budget" tag?

 

Even at a discount of £180, it's still quite a lot of money for most. I would put that near the top price of budget train sets and it doesn't even have track, controller, etc.

 

This does. Although the Tornado pack is better, I can see more of the general public wanting the Scotsman set.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513738/hornby_r1255m_flying_scotsman_starter_train_set/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

Given that it's not hard to spend over £200 on a loco alone I'd say that's pretty good value.

[phil_sutters]

One of the problems is that actually seeing any of these prestigious locos is a very rare occurrence. Unless your dad is an enthusiast how do you get hooked on a steam engine, when all you see are multiple units, whether it is one of our 313s or the latest pointy-nosed creation.Thomas sells as a spin-off from the books and cartoons. Each heritage line has its own line-up of steam locos, but how many have one of the same class, so that one can pick a 'typical' heritage loco, seen by people across the country, to make a mass-marketable product. The Austerities are probably what you would end up with.

[F-UnitMad]

On 03/09/2020 at 23:16, Rockalaucher101 said:

If the Scotsman train set was in BR green with deflectors and came with MK1's I feel it'd appeal to a wider audience.

I dunno - if that abomination of an item, the infamous "Flying Scotsman gift clock" with it's bendy engine, can sell, then anything that has "Flying Scotsman" on it will sell to a none-the-wiser General Public regardless of the actual appearance of the real thing.

[Rockalaucher101]

On 04/09/2020 at 23:47, phil_sutters said:

One of the problems is that actually seeing any of these prestigious locos is a very rare occurrence. Unless your dad is an enthusiast how do you get hooked on a steam engine, when all you see are multiple units, whether it is one of our 313s or the latest pointy-nosed creation.

You make a valid point. When it comes to seeing steam on the mainline it is unlikely that you'd catch a glimpse of one unless you either went looking for it or got extremely lucky. As for going to a preseved line I have observed a lot of couples with little'ens just going to the railway for a day out, just as something to do. It's not out of the realm of possiblity that as they now do days out with Peppa Pig and Paw Patrol that a lot more may become interested in steam as a by-product of those visits.

As for what sets you wind up with, I wouldn't mind seeing the Hornby Austerity/J94 demoted to trainset status. And besides if you name a set after a preserved line it may also promote that line, of course then you may end up with complaining that you're local isn't catered for.

But just imagine:

SVR - The Pioneer, Class 50 and MK1's in maroon

GWSR - Cheltenham Races, Hall Class or Merchant Navy with MK1's in choc n cream (I know Foremarke Hall is a modified Hall but it's Hornby, what do they care)

Swanage Railway - Battle of Britain or West Country with MK1's in green

NYMR - Black 5 with MK1's in Blood n Custard

Isle of Wight - Austerity 0-6-0 with Hornby 4 wheel coaches in green (not ideal but maybe if it came with 3 or 4)

 

The possibilities are endless.

[009 micro modeller]

On 05/09/2020 at 08:28, F-UnitMad said:

then anything that has "Flying Scotsman" on it will sell to a none-the-wiser General Public

 

Including an apple green-liveried Smokey Joe, named Flying Scotsman?

[Rockalaucher101]

9 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Including an apple green-liveried Smokey Joe, named Flying Scotsman?

Great now I want to buy another 0-4-0 to do exactly that... I've not even finished the last one I modified, it's still in primer

[009 micro modeller]

17 minutes ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Great now I want to buy another 0-4-0 to do exactly that... I've not even finished the last one I modified, it's still in primer

 

Actually perhaps a Dowlais D class would work better - I’ve always felt they have lines more reminiscent of LNER locos.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

You make a valid point. When it comes to seeing steam on the mainline it is unlikely that you'd catch a glimpse of one unless you either went looking for it or got extremely lucky. As for going to a preseved line I have observed a lot of couples with little'ens just going to the railway for a day out, just as something to do. It's not out of the realm of possiblity that as they now do days out with Peppa Pig and Paw Patrol that a lot more may become interested in steam as a by-product of those visits.

 

 

 

That's the market and has been for the last forty years.

 

People think it's enthusiasts that visit and pay for Heritage Railways. It's not. It's the general public. That's why "steam centres" disappeared. People want to be entertained for a couple of hours with the kids. They don't want to clamber over dirty locomotives and go up and down in a brake van anymore. They want a journey and possibly a meal.

 

It's no longer people who remember steam. It's those who want to see the trains grandad saw. Or they saw in a movie or TV programme.

 

I can guarantee they make more money from all the tourist tat they now sell than from items aimed at enthusiasts.

 

What is it with those annoying whistles? Some kids by mine have been making loads of noise with them for the past week. I wonder where they've been....

 

 

Jason

Edited September 7, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[RichardT]

After 22 pages of interesting but now circular discussion, and as the OP who posed the question appears to have disappeared, can anyone else correct the spelling mistake in the topic title that’s driving me mad every time it pops up in my “new content” window?!?!

RT

[Rockalaucher101]

5 minutes ago, RichardT said:

After 22 pages of interesting but now circular discussion, and as the OP who posed the question appears to have disappeared, can anyone else correct the spelling mistake in the topic title that’s driving me mad every time it pops up in my “new content” window?!?!

RT

Oh god, I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out

Can a Mod change the title or does it have to be the OP?

['CHARD]

3 minutes ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

 

Can a Mod change the title or does it have to be the OP?

 

I've given Roger Daltrey a nudge.

[Rockalaucher101]

22 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

It's no longer people who remember steam. It's those who want to see the trains grandad saw. Or they saw in a movie or TV programme.

 

I can guarantee they make more money from all the tourist tat they now sell than from items aimed at enthusiasts.

 

What is it with those annoying whistles? Some kids by mine have been making loads of noise with them for the past week. I wonder where they've been....

Another reason that Tornado is so well loved by younger people, or at least that's what I've seen when she's been on preserved lines... Easily marketed as 'As seen in Paddington bear 2' same goes for the Hughes Crab 13065 (Although that's now under overhaul)

 

I do feel that we've hijacked this thread a little, it's not really focused on budget Loco's anymore

Edited September 7, 2020 by Rockalaucher101
Corrected Spelling

[009 micro modeller]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

That's why "steam centres" disappeared.

 

Although presumably Quainton Road and similar places are still doing OK as they survived?

[009 micro modeller]

13 minutes ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

I do feel that we've hijacked this thread a little, it's not really focused on budget Loco's anymore

 

It’s sort of returned instead to the more general, and perennial, ‘how to encourage newcomers into the hobby.’

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Although presumably Quainton Road and similar places are still doing OK as they survived?

 

Is it really a "steam centre" though? Even so it might have survived, but has it thrived? 

 

The only one I can think of that has really survived as intended is Didcot.

 

Carnforth and Tyseley still exist, but are not open to the public. But there used to be about thirty similar places. All now either morphed into something else or moved.

 

I remember going to places like Carnforth and Dinting in the 1970s and there was thousands of people. Large mainline locomotives going up and down with a couple of brake vans. You want to go on Flying Scotsman, Princess Elizabeth, King George V or Blue Peter? Climb up!

 

But it was virtually all enthusiasts rather than the general public. I remember coming home from these places looking like someone off the Black & White Minstrel Show after climbing over every inch of those locomotives. 

 

Can't do that now.  

 

 

Jason

['CHARD]

26 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I remember coming home from these places looking like someone off the Black & White Minstrel Show after climbing over every inch of those locomotives. 

 

Can't do that now.  

 

 

You certainly can't 

[Rockalaucher101]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

It’s sort of returned instead to the more general, and perennial, ‘how to encourage newcomers into the hobby.’

Agreed, I suppose the question we could be asking is should there be a range between Hornby Junior and Hornby Railroad/Train Sets or are we satified that the jump is fine.

 

Junior track looks very basic from looking at pictures. Maybe if it was more like the Kato track? Still made with metal rails, easy to slot together, no sharp fish plates, somehow compatible with standard 00 gauge track if you buy an adapter?That way all someone would need to do is buy a controller and some Locos that operate on DC as opposed to battery. That would make the Hornby train packs more viable. Loco's could be slighty more detailed than Junior with better paint jobs, maybe wire handrails.

 

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, RichardT said:

After 22 pages of interesting but now circular discussion, and as the OP who posed the question appears to have disappeared, can anyone else correct the spelling mistake in the topic title that’s driving me mad every time it pops up in my “new content” window?!?!

RT

I got accused of being catty when I mentioned the OP's awful spelling.

 

Edit: the OP last visited RMweb on 14th August, the day after he started this Thread. That's how flippin' interested he is.  or maybe just didn't like the fact that no-one flocked to his side & hailed his idea as genius.?

Edited September 7, 2020 by F-UnitMad

[MyRule1]

4 hours ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Junior track looks very basic from looking at pictures. Maybe if it was more like the Kato track? Still made with metal rails, easy to slot together

This brought to mind the original Rovex / Triang standard track.

 

As this was my introduction to model railways back in the 1950's I thought I'd look up the cost of the "entry level" Princess _ two coaches: this was around £3 which with inflation is £103 today.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by MyRule1