Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

Had my stab rather earlier than I was expecting it. GP phoned on Thursday to book me in at the "local" centre and I got the Pfizer version yesterday afternoon.  My experience is that currently I've had no side effects and that its feels like the flu jab, with a slight ache at the injection site, but no redness.

The general finding seems to be that few people experience much discomfort after their first Pfizer jab, but may have a little more after the second. The AZ vaccine seems to be the reverse, with a headache or two in the first couple of day after jab one, but not much after jab two. As I am unlikely to be jabbed before August at best, by which time I will be approaching 73, I have so much to look forward to, while largely keeping away from people!

[APOLLO]

With my AZ jab, didn't even feel the needle, though arm just a little sore this morning. The Flu jab last September was worse.

 

All this yabber about contracts is pretty pointless, people here in the UK are getting jabbed, new vaccination centres opening, the system though not perfect works. I think the UK is doing rather well.

 

Poor Olddudders above, aged 72 has to wait till August. My second jab, appointment already booked, is in May.

 

Brit15

[hayfield]

12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The general finding seems to be that few people experience much discomfort after their first Pfizer jab, but may have a little more after the second. The AZ vaccine seems to be the reverse, with a headache or two in the first couple of day after jab one, but not much after jab two. As I am unlikely to be jabbed before August at best, by which time I will be approaching 73, I have so much to look forward to, while largely keeping away from people!

 

What tier system are the French using then ?

[John M Upton]

Seems to be an increasing march towards a point where if you want to work, travel, shop or even just leave your house, the vaccination will be compulsory which I have no problem with whatsoever. 

 

The tin foil hat anti vaccine brigade on the other hand may suddenly find themselves house bound and unemployable in the near future.

 

I bet that changes their tunes PDQ....

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

What tier system are the French using then ?

Broadly comparable, but the rollout is glacial, not unrelated to the supply issue we have all heard about. And France is much more hogtied by rules and precedents, in this case to the extent that a senior Paris GP complained that she and her colleagues across the nation could be much more involved in the programme than was currently being allowed. There is an online website that allows me to check my likely date, but it isn't changing its tune much. 

 

EDIT : Oh, and France has concluded that there is insufficient data to support use of the AZ vaccine in over-65s, so it's currently Pfizer or Moderna, I think. If/when I do get jabbed, it will be at a centre nearby, unlike the flu vaccine. For that, I get a letter from the French Chief Med Officer offering me a jab. I take the letter to the pharmacie, and they stamp it and give me a box containing the one-use needle filled with vaccine. I take this home and put it in my fridge as instructed. Next day-ish, I take it to the local nurse - who is unconnected to any GP - and she does the biz, charging me 3 or 4 euros for the privilege. I am entitled to claim that back but never do, obviously. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Oldddudders

[beast66606]

10 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Seems to be an increasing march towards a point where if you want to work, travel, shop or even just leave your house, the vaccination will be compulsory which I have no problem with whatsoever. 

 

The tin foil hat anti vaccine brigade on the other hand may suddenly find themselves house bound and unemployable in the near future.

 

I bet that changes their tunes PDQ....

 

There are plenty of groups of people who cannot take the vaccine, we need to be careful demonising people. I see a nasal vaccine is in development, this may sweep up another group who have needle fear - let's be patient with each other. A high percentage of BAME people are not taking up the offer of a vaccine at present and they also form a significant proportion of health service workers ... it would be interesting times if they were all suddenly made house bound.

[hayfield]

6 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Broadly comparable, but the rollout is glacial, not unrelated to the supply issue we have all heard about. And France is much more hogtied by rules and precedents, in this case to the extent that a senior Paris GP complained that she and her colleagues across the nation could be much more involved in the programme than was currently being allowed. There is an online website that allows me to check my likely date, but it isn't changing its tune much. 

 

Ian

 

We initially had similar issues with practising dentists have to jump through hoops to be able to volunteer to administer the vaccine. Our rollout is stunning, my local health centre (we are a small village) is vaccinating 3000 people a week (its a local hub) and now is into the 6-+ group, but its a delayed 2nd jab method. The roll out is just stunning here a few hiccups initially as would be expected but is running like a Swiss watch, a real team effort by all involved. You could not believe politicians could get it so right. and of course the NHS, services and volunteers have all been brilliant

 

Our local health centre was infamous for a bad service. But in this instance they are all heroes, not just with the immunisation, but the non covid service is also far better. Certainly going our own way has paid off big time. Sorry you are stuck in this bureaucratic system, hopefully they will get it sorted out sooner for you

 

 

[jcm@gwr]

I've not had my jab, or even the invite, yet, (I'm in the 60-65 group, no health problems,

not due, so not complaining) but I'm very impressed with what I'm hearing about the

speed and efficiency of the vaccination program roll-out.

But, I've just learnt about the cost of developing Perseverance, and getting it onto Mars,

turns out they did it for approximately one fifth the cost of the Track & Trace system, set

up by Dido Harding!

Makes you think just which one was better value for money, doesn't it?

[Reorte]

16 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

I've not had my jab, or even the invite, yet, (I'm in the 60-65 group, no health problems,

not due, so not complaining) but I'm very impressed with what I'm hearing about the

speed and efficiency of the vaccination program roll-out.

But, I've just learnt about the cost of developing Perseverance, and getting it onto Mars,

turns out they did it for approximately one fifth the cost of the Track & Trace system, set

up by Dido Harding!

Makes you think just which one was better value for money, doesn't it?

Ah, but they've lost track of lots of things that have been sent to Mars!

 

(looking good for Perseverance though, getting quite excited by this one!)

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

With my AZ jab, didn't even feel the needle, though arm just a little sore this morning. The Flu jab last September was worse.

 

Both myself and my daughter are the same, couldn't feel the jab at all (last years flu jab was a really 'orrible one!)... It took a day or two for the slight headache and tiredness to kick in so you've been warned!

 

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

EDIT : Oh, and France has concluded that there is insufficient data to support use of the AZ vaccine in over-65s

 

Mmmm... Then they should be watching the UK where the majority of the 15m+ that have had the AZ vaccine are over 65 and see how we get on... I genuinely hope it's not as a result of sour grapes, though, that would be unacceptable.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Hobby

[boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Both myself and my daughter are the same, couldn't feel the jab at all (last years flu jab was a really 'orrible one!)...

Actually last years (2020) flu jab was the first I have had which gave me a sore arm, or little bit of it after a few days, but usually after any jabs I get no reaction at all, as has been the case with our first AZ jab a few weeks ago now.

Edited February 20, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Jonboy]

5 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Mmmm... Then they should be watching the UK where the majority of the 15m+ that have had the AZ vaccine are over 65 and see how we get on... I genuinely hope it's not as a result of sour grapes, though, that would be unacceptable.

Did cross my mind it’s possibly just a distraction tactic from the low supply whilst AZ etc scale up production

[Hobby]

Hope it is for their sake.

[rocor]

47 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

I've not had my jab, or even the invite, yet, (I'm in the 60-65 group, no health problems,

not due, so not complaining) but I'm very impressed with what I'm hearing about the

speed and efficiency of the vaccination program roll-out.

But, I've just learnt about the cost of developing Perseverance, and getting it onto Mars,

turns out they did it for approximately one fifth the cost of the Track & Trace system, set

up by Dido Harding!

Makes you think just which one was better value for money, doesn't it?

 

Two point seven billion dollars for Dido Harding?, does not seem like good value for money.

 

Two point seven billion dollars to send Dido Harding on a one way mission to Mars however?.

[rocor]

39 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Actually last years (2020) flu jab was the first I have had which gave me a sore arm, or little bit of it after a few days, but usually after any jabs I get no reaction at all, as has been the case with our first AZ jab a few weeks ago now.

 

I would hazard a guess, that the chance of getting a sore arm after the jab, is mainly determined by these two variables.

 

The quality of the needle.

The skill of the jabber.

[John M Upton]

46 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

Two point seven billion dollars for Dido Harding?, does not seem like good value for money.

 

Two point seven billion dollars to send Dido Harding on a one way mission to Mars however?.

 

 

There are a few others I can think of who could join her on this planet's very own version of the Golgafrincham's B Ark.....

[jcm@gwr]

4 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

 

There are a few others I can think of who could join her on this planet's very own version of the Golgafrincham's B Ark.....

 

Shades of Douglas Adams!

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

EDIT : Oh, and France has concluded that there is insufficient data to support use of the AZ vaccine in over-65s, so it's currently Pfizer or Moderna, I think. If/when I do get jabbed, it will be at a centre nearby, unlike the flu vaccine. For that, I get a letter from the French Chief Med Officer offering me a jab. I take the letter to the pharmacie, and they stamp it and give me a box containing the one-use needle filled with vaccine. I take this home and put it in my fridge as instructed. Next day-ish, I take it to the local nurse - who is unconnected to any GP - and she does the biz, charging me 3 or 4 euros for the privilege. I am entitled to claim that back but never do, obviously. 

 

Given the foresight from the UK government and the NHS, plus most of the rest of the world where the Oxford Astra Zeneca is both authorised for use and manufactured the EU countries are seemingly dragging their heals are or using it as an excuse for their mismanagement of the procurement process. I bet once the vaccine plants in the EU get up to speed they will quickly come to the conclusion that its safe, or the mass UK vaccinations will soon give the information required

 

As for all the palaver of getting the flu jab, there is a fight between the local chemist and the health centre for the business, both are free of charge 

[Pete the Elaner]

20 hours ago, Fenman said:

I think you’ve misunderstood. The complaint was that the government didn’t bother to publish the contracts within 30 days of awarding them — nothing about holding up procurement for red tape. 
 

A junior grade admin assistant could have emailed the contracts to the London Gazette for publication (I exaggerate, but not much). Hardly a difficult task requiring massive staff effort, nor a distraction from the task at hand. Just obeying the law...
 

Paul

 

I would agree if this was raised immediately after the 30 day disclosure directive...but it wasn't - that was 6-9 months ago.

The directive is to ensure competition has a chance to react. If it had been exposed immediately, it would have been useful. This does not relate to any facts which have been leaked later. It is like missing a train.

I don't believe the government was right, but raising it now only shows incompetence on both sides; on the government for not following the directive & on those exposing it because they failed to at the appropriate time.

[Nearholmer]

 

15 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

on those exposing it because they failed to at the appropriate time.

 

They raised it pretty swiftly, but the mills of the cabinet office, and then the law, grind exceeding slow.

 

The opening formal letter is dated 9 July 2020

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q7M9jl7IPyUgoKWypzCHT0ZBKUwmdKHl/view

 

Shall I open a completely separate thread for this, because it threatens to divert us all from the intended topic?

 

[62613]

22 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I would agree if this was raised immediately after the 30 day disclosure directive...but it wasn't - that was 6-9 months ago.

The directive is to ensure competition has a chance to react. If it had been exposed immediately, it would have been useful. This does not relate to any facts which have been leaked later. It is like missing a train.

I don't believe the government was right, but raising it now only shows incompetence on both sides; on the government for not following the directive & on those exposing it because they failed to at the appropriate time.

The judgement coming now has more to do with the way the wheels of justice are tuning particularly slowly at the moment; the case has been in the pipeline since at least October. Why did the government spend half a million quid defending it?

 

[john new]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

They raised it pretty swiftly, but the mills of the cabinet office, and then the law, grind exceeding slow.

 

The opening formal letter is dated 9 July 2020

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q7M9jl7IPyUgoKWypzCHT0ZBKUwmdKHl/view

 

Shall I open a completely separate thread for this, because it threatens to divert us all from the intended topic?

 

Makes sense and ask the Mods to move relevant past posts across to it.

[chris p bacon]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Shall I open a completely separate thread for this, because it threatens to divert us all from the intended topic?

 

 

I wouldn't, it will quickly decend into politics.

Edited February 20, 2021 by chris p bacon

[Nearholmer]

Exactly.

 

Open a new thread as a sacrificial lamb, rather than have this one crash and burn for the same reason.

 

Let's see how it goes - if we can all not talk about this legal case, all should be fine.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Ohmisterporter]

Regarding the jabs; when the needle goes through the seal of the vial does the needle get blocked by the seal material, which is then drawn into the syringe along with the vaccine? The odds on the seal material then finding its way back into the needle to be injected into an arm must be fairly high, though not impossible. Could this be the reason why some people have jab sites that last longer than others?