Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Guest Jack Benson]

Thank you Martin,

 

Is it possible to draw a simple trackplan using Templot just using five B7 turnouts. My drawing skills are limited to french curves and HB pencils.

 

Thanks once more

 

StayCool

[martin_wynne]

22 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

Is it possible to draw a simple trackplan using Templot just using five B7 turnouts.

 

Hi Jack,

 

Sure. If you set a B-7 turnout to start, all the turnouts will be B-7 until you change them.

 

Templot is a tool, there a lots of different ways of using it.

 

Here is a bit of video showing how some beginners like to create a track plan:

 

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=MpJjo2qAne0bTEXB6MeXPw2

 

Here is a video clip showing how more experienced users create a track plan with pointwork on flowing curves:

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/mp4/templot_quick.mp4

 

Starting from scratch in Templot, see: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/templot_explained.php

 

Join the Templot Club forum to learn more about Templot and lots of other ways of using it: https://85a.uk/templot/club

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

Back from Holiday now, been working on backlog of orders all week but finally cleared most of these.

 

I've added some new products to the website, you can now purchase CNC milled Crossing V's (both soldered and separate) and CNC milled Switch Blades. Available in Code 40, 60 & 75 bullhead rail.

 

Assembled V's: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/crossing-vs-soldered.htm

 

Separate V's: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/crossing-vs-separate.htm

 

Milled Switch Blades: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/milled-switchblades.htm

 

 

1x Pair of Switch Blades: £9

1x Assembled (Soldered) Crossing V: £8

1x Pair of separate Crossing V's: £7

 

Will get back to getting new formations out in September!

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Wayne Kinney

[Chuffer Davies]

6 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Back from Holiday now, been working on backlog of orders all week but finally cleared most of these.

 

I've added some new products to the website, you can now purchase CNC milled Crossing V's (both soldered and separate) and CNC milled Switch Blades. Available in Code 40, 60 & 75 bullhead rail.

 

Assembled V's: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/crossing-vs-soldered.htm

 

Separate V's: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/crossing-vs-separate.htm

 

Milled Switch Blades: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/milled-switchblades.htm

 

 

1x Pair of Switch Blades: £9

1x Assembled (Soldered) Crossing V: £8

1x Pair of separate Crossing V's: £7

 

Will get back to getting new formations out in September!

 

Hi Wayne,

these will make life a lot easier for modellers who are making there first attempts at building their own track from component parts.  Might be worth thinking about adding tiebar components to the range.  
 

Frank

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

Not 4mm, but James Hilton has uploaded a great assembly video of a Finetrax N Gauge B6 turnout kit, thanks James!:

 

[NFWEM57]

Making a Curved British Finescale EM gauge B7

 

I have been modifying my multigauge test track to include Wayne's latest offerings, the Double Slip and the Crossing.  Rather pushed for space I found myself needing a curved right hand B7.  It is rather bespoke fit and being a templot novice I decided to approach the problem by trimming the inter sleeper webbing in a few places and going by trial and error.  A few lessons leant on the way but the following is my first attempt.

 

Having trimmed or removed some inter sleeper webbing, first image,  I then glued the base on both side to some thin plastic sheet, second sheet. 

 

 

 

Once the glue (Medium CA+) had dried I then taped the base to a sheet of thin plywood using masking tape.  Then the turnout was assembled in full.  Noe the pre-curved stock rails.

 

 

 

Next I remove the plastic sheet form the base and attached the supply and frog wires.

 

 

 

Note, the turnout has started to relax a little at this point so installation was commenced immediately.  The final image shows the turnout in place about to be connected to short sections of track to link with a double slip, centre left and a crossing, upper left.

 

 

How would l I do it next time..!!  or Lessons Learnt..!

 

1.  Assemble the turnout as normal  but do not fit the switch blades.  Remember to leave sufficient over hang of rail at each end.

2.  Attached the dropper wires and leave an overhang of wire for connecting the switch blades to the stock rails or fit separate wires to the bottom of two fish plate which can then be slid over the switch rails when they are inserted.   

3.  Trim or removed the inter sleeper webbing as required to allow the turnout to be curved

4.  Fit the turnout in situ.

5.  Fit the switch blades.

6.  If required but best avoided, remove the turnout, electrically link the stock rails to the switch rails and refit the trunout.

 

Hope this helps anybody trying curve a BF turnout.

 

I will upload some images of the completed test track which has 2 x EM, OO (75), OO (100) and N gauge loops as well as an O gauge run with a Y point.  All on a  6ft by 8 ft board..!

 

Patrick

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by NFWEM57
typos

[BWsTrains]

I've had a quick look at this in Templot because something didn't look right. Those more experienced may be able to explain fully but hopefully these comparative images will explain what I mean.

 

Templot allows you to curve a turnout of a given geometry correctly and in my demo below I attempted to match the curvature of your exit lanes as best I could.

 

 

The key point here is that the images show that your curve is all starting well towards the exit lanes. The Templot plan has the stock rail curvature starting after the tie bar so the two shapes do not overlap. If I try to match up both ends of yours with a curved B7 I end up with a much more shallow curvature.

 

 

or match your curvature and have a greater lateral displacement

 

 

 

I'm not saying yours won't work, just pointing out that it doesn't agree with the required curving for a 1:7 turnout.

 

I've curved 8 of the Finetrax B7 Turnouts now and agree broadly with your sequence. I've now moved to preparing curved turnouts on a Templot printed template of my  design as I find that easiest to work with. My B7 converted to a "Y" is reported here and may have some further helpful ideas.:

 

 

To do this much you need the barest minimum of Templot skills and I strongly recommend its use if you're going to curve these turnouts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by BWsTrains

[NFWEM57]

4 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

I'm not saying yours won't work, just pointing out that it doesn't agree with the required curving for a 1:7 turnout.

Hi, thank you for the analysis.  It was my first attempt and it is just for my test track...!  I did not cut any webbing prior to the opening in the base where the stock and switch rails are electrically joined because I was concerned about the fragility of the base.  Given the lesson learnt from my first attempt I would obviously cut the webbing as required at intervals along the whole length of the base after the turnout has been partially assembled.  If I find my first attempt to be troublesome I may well replace it with another suitably modified B7.

 

Once again, thank you for the analysis.  Much appreciated. 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

Given the lesson learnt from my first attempt I would obviously cut the webbing as required at intervals along the whole length of the base after the turnout has been partially assembled.

 

Hi,

 

My suggested cutting of the base webbing is at:

 

 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/160234-using-the-easy-assembly-finetrax-pointwork-kits-in-00-and-em/?do=findComment&comment=4701029

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[NFWEM57]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

My suggested cutting of the base webbing

Hi Martin,

 

Thank you.  Have created a template in templot for a B7 with a switch radius of 46" and a turnout radius of 36".  I only cut some of the webbing to maintain some integrity of the base for my first attempt.  For my next attempt, I will partially assemble before hand, then lay the turnout over the template, adjust as required, secure in place then fit the switch rails.  Might have to give it another go at a later date using my assembly method.

 

Regards,

 

Patrick

Edited September 4, 2022 by NFWEM57
typo

[BWsTrains]

4 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

Hi, thank you for the analysis.  It was my first attempt and it is just for my test track...!  I did not cut any webbing prior to the opening in the base where the stock and switch rails are electrically joined because I was concerned about the fragility of the base.  Given the lesson learnt from my first attempt I would obviously cut the webbing as required at intervals along the whole length of the base after the turnout has been partially assembled.  If I find my first attempt to be troublesome I may well replace it with another suitably modified B7.

 

Once again, thank you for the analysis.  Much appreciated. 

 

No problem, my pleasure to try to help.

 

Following as per Martin's guide I cut all the webbing but I felt that having the stock rails in situ throughout the assembly would be useful to support the weakened base structure.

 

To give something to cut against with rails in place, I inserted a suitable thickness of disposable PS material (trimmed old sprue) between the rail and the webbing then made cuts from beneath. This minimising the risk of fracturing the webbing while cutting.

 

In fact I did things a little differently to what's shown in Martin's post (but to the same end). You will see that on one side of the turnout the sleepers will come closer together (i.e. you need a little gap cut in the webbing to allow for the closure), on the opposite side the sleepers move correspondingly apart so the webbing needs just to be cut. I found that a razor saw cut in each closure side webbing was more than enough gap to permit the required compression. On the other side I cut with a sharp knife.

 

Once the desired curve was achieved I fixed down the sleepers in various places (details in my post referenced earlier) and then used CA to glue all the cuts. On the opened side I used a thickened CA with gap filling, on the closed side just regular runny CA.

 

To continue from here, you can leave the stock rails in situ while you add the remaining track pieces, retracting the stock rails sufficiently before installing the switch blades.

Edited September 4, 2022 by BWsTrains

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

I've just released the 00-SF 1in7 Single Slip kit:

https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-00-sf-1in7-singleslip.htm

 

 

Working on the EM Gauge Single Slip kit this afternoon, hopefully have this on the website this evening :)

 

What kits do you guys want to see next? 

[Dominion]

Fabulous, thank you Wayne. Duly ordered. The double slips are all installed and working well. Very much looking forward to these.

[billywhizz]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

I've just released the 00-SF 1in7 Single Slip kit:

https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-00-sf-1in7-singleslip.htm

 

 

Working on the EM Gauge Single Slip kit this afternoon, hopefully have this on the website this evening :)

 

What kits do you guys want to see next? 

Wood sleeper flat bottom rail point kits please Wayne along with FBR sleeper webs for making plain line (in OO of course!!) 😂

You did ask! 
Cheers. 
Bill. 

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

What kits do you guys want to see next?

 

Hi Wayne,

 

C-10  turnouts.

 

Long enough to be given significant curving without the inside radius getting too sharp. The B-7s can be curved, but not very far.

 

A-5 + B-7 + C-10  would give you a nice well-balanced range.

 

p.s. the C-10 parts would also give you the basis of an impressive switch-diamond -- which is actually easier to make than a fixed diamond-crossing.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited September 27, 2022 by martin_wynne
p.s. added

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, martin_wynne said:

C-10  turnouts.

 

Are they practical in bog standard 00?

[martin_wynne]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

Are they practical in bog standard 00?

 

Certainly. What makes you think they might not be?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

Just now, martin_wynne said:

 

Certainly. What makes you think they might not be?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

I'm assuming he means finding the space for them...

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Certainly. What makes you think they might not be?

 

Wheel drop, with the longer gap in the running rail at the crossing, exacerbated by wider than prototypical check rail - running rail spacing?

 

1 minute ago, Wayne Kinney said:

I'm assuming he means finding the space for them...

 

That too!

Edited September 27, 2022 by Compound2632

[CoombeTown]

2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

What kits do you guys want to see next? 

Would be great to have the A5 in 00-SF, I've got a plan for a nice micro-layout around them...

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

What kits do you guys want to see next? 

A6 in OO would be handy, not in any way because it (along with the B7 and double slip) will give me everything I need for my layout plan).

[martin_wynne]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Wheel drop, with the longer gap in the running rail at the crossing, exacerbated by wider than prototypical check rail - running rail spacing?

 

Hi,

 

Wheel drop is caused by the width of the gap, not the length. Provided your wheels are wide enough, they won't drop regardless of the length of the turnout.

 

For the Standard 00 kits Wayne uses the DOGA-Intermediate standard with a flangeway gap of 1.2mm. The widest gap anywhere on any turnout regardless of its length is just across in front of the nose of the vee.

 

Assuming a prototypical blunt nose on the vee of 0.25mm (prototype 3/4" for bullhead), the total width of that gap for Standard 00 is 1.2mm + 0.25mm + 1.2mm = 2.65mm. If your wheels are wider than that it is physically impossible for them to fall in the gap. Even on the longest turnout.

 

00 RTR wheels are (or should be) 2.8mm wide, so they can't fall in those gaps on any of Wayne's kits.

 

However, kit wheels are only 2.3mm or 2.5mm wide, so they can and will fall into the gaps on Standard 00. And the effect will be more noticeable on longer turnouts. If you are using such wheels, the answer is to use 00-SF instead of Standard 00. That's what 00-SF was invented for. You can mix 00-SF and Standard 00 on the same layout.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

27 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

I'm assuming he means finding the space for them...

 

Hi Wayne,

 

Long curved turnouts actually save space.

 

It means you can build pointwork into the curves at the end of the layout, leaving more space for the station area on the straight.

 

But the turnouts have to be long enough to take some significant curving. It doesn't really matter if they are very long, if it means they can be used where no other turnouts would fit.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Nick C]

23 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

00 RTR wheels are (or should be) 2.8mm wide, so they can't fall in those gaps on any of Wayne's kits.

 

However, kit wheels are only 2.3mm or 2.5mm wide, so they can and will fall into the gaps on Standard 00. And the effect will be more noticeable on longer turnouts. If you are using such wheels, the answer is to use 00-SF instead of Standard 00. That's what 00-SF was invented for. You can mix 00-SF and Standard 00 on the same layout.

Having used Wayne's 00-SF kits on my current layout, I wouldn't bother with standard 00 any more (except in fiddleyards perhaps). Most RTR wheels are fine on SF - I just tried a quick test, pushing a rake of three Mainline and two 'made in England' era Hornby wagons went through a B7 quite happily - so unless someone is using Lima or Tri-ang wheels you ought to be fine...

Edited September 27, 2022 by Nick C

[Graham T]

I'm planning to use Finetrax points on Chuffnell Regis Mk II, and having read the above it sounds as if OO-SF is the route to take.