Hornby 2021 - Diesel and Electric range

[scottrains29]

On 16/01/2021 at 21:18, APT Fan said:

Nice to see the 56 in the large logo livery, There is however a lack of provisioning from a DCC point of view. It doesn't have cab lights or the ability to switch off the rear lights for when its pulling a load, there is also a lack of space for fitting a sound decoder and speaker. I find Hornby's decision to stick with an 8 pin socket very odd and immediately limits the DCC functionality that can be controlled, They seem to be way behind many other manufacturers from that point of view.

 

The fans in my model don't rotate,

It's annoying that Hornby still produce the 8 pin version when they have a 21 pin version they could use. My factory fitted sound 56 has a smaller, 21 pin circuit board and larger rectangular Hornby speaker. The fans also rotate!
I don't know why they don't produce a DCC version of the 21pin setup and offer a 8 to 21 pin adaptor.

 

 

On 23/01/2021 at 11:44, APT Fan said:

I wonder if Hornby are going to re-design the 87 so that you can actually fit a decoder and speaker inside the body. I'm interested in one but I don't think I'd pre-order until I know more about its design.

There is a round space for a speaker under the circuit board, presumably for a future TTS speaker. I've got a sugarcube installed in mine. There is also a space at the side of the chassis for the decoder to sit.

[Fredo]

Hi, I know that R30047 is now 37884 but R30041TTS which is 37521 has a centre head code box but in reality had a flush end I think. Does anyone agree. Thanks Fred 

[Matt]

6 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

It's annoying that Hornby still produce the 8 pin version when they have a 21 pin version they could use. My factory fitted sound 56 has a smaller, 21 pin circuit board and larger rectangular Hornby speaker. The fans also rotate!
I don't know why they don't produce a DCC version of the 21pin setup and offer a 8 to 21 pin adaptor.

 

 

There is a round space for a speaker under the circuit board, presumably for a future TTS speaker. I've got a sugarcube installed in mine. There is also a space at the side of the chassis for the decoder to sit.

damnit that’s what I did with my first one - tried to install a decoder to second 87 recently and couldn’t get shell back on - puzzled how I managed last time.... thanks for reminder

[APT Fan]

6 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

It's annoying that Hornby still produce the 8 pin version when they have a 21 pin version they could use. My factory fitted sound 56 has a smaller, 21 pin circuit board and larger rectangular Hornby speaker. The fans also rotate!
I don't know why they don't produce a DCC version of the 21pin setup and offer a 8 to 21 pin adaptor.

 

 

There is a round space for a speaker under the circuit board, presumably for a future TTS speaker. I've got a sugarcube installed in mine. There is also a space at the side of the chassis for the decoder to sit.

 

I didn't realise Hornby did a 56 with Factory Fitted sound?

[Matt]

I think it was 56 128 in coal, maybe others too (One in EWS?). If I recall correctly they did both sound and unfitted versions .

[GordonC]

28 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think it was 56 128 in coal, maybe others too (One in EWS?). If I recall correctly they did both sound and unfitted versions .

56127 was DCC Sound Fitted only

 

56128 was produced earlier in both DC Ready or DCC Fitted but not sound.

 

 

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, Fredo said:

Hi, I know that R30047 is now 37884 but R30041TTS which is 37521 has a centre head code box but in reality had a flush end I think. Does anyone agree. Thanks Fred 

 

Built as D6817, later 37117, it was split box with doors.

Later rebuilt as 37521, doors now sealed and "flush" lights in place of the boxes. It also has a central HI headlight.

On a slightly confusing note - it now carries D6817 again, painted in green.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by newbryford

[TomScrut]

13 hours ago, Fredo said:

but R30041TTS which is 37521 has a centre head code box but in reality had a flush end I think

 

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

Later rebuilt as 37521, doors now sealed and "flush" lights in place of the boxes. It also has a central HI headlight.

On a slightly confusing note - it now carries D6817 again, painted in green.

 

I wonder why they chose 521? They could have chosen 421 and it would have been a closer match with the tooling surely and be relevant over a larger amount of time?

 

As you say Mick 521 is green now, 421 is still in Colas colours (although I expect the logo would have changed on it by now). 

[Roy Langridge]

9 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Built as D6817, later 37117, it was split box with doors.

Later rebuilt as 37521, doors now sealed and "flush" lights in place of the boxes. It also has a central HI headlight.

On a slightly confusing note - it now carries D6817 again, painted in green.

 

 

 

 

Yep - easy to tell what was split headcode and what was centre headcode originally from the numbers. Split headcodes started at the bottom becoming 501 up, centre headcode from the top, 699 down. Likewise, 701 up and 899 down for the 37/7s.

Roy

[MGR Hooper!]

20 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

I wonder why they chose 521? They could have chosen 421 and it would have been a closer match with the tooling surely and be relevant over a larger amount of time?

 

As you say Mick 521 is green now, 421 is still in Colas colours (although I expect the logo would have changed on it by now). 

Drop Simon Kohler an email. I did that regarding the Europhoenix Class 37s and within a day he responded and then within 4-5 days they changed the numbers.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by MGR Hooper!

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Drop Simon Kohler an email. I did that regarding the Europhoenix Class 37s and withing a day he responded and then within 4-5 days they changed the numbers.

 

 

TBH I aren't that bothered, I wouldn't be buying it anyway I just thought it seemed a strange choice compared to the alternatives. Colas have a couple more centre headcode ones IIRC too.

[scottrains29]

23 hours ago, Matt said:

I think it was 56 128 in coal, maybe others too (One in EWS?). If I recall correctly they did both sound and unfitted versions .

Coal sector 56091, 56095, 56127 and Colas 56094 all came with 21 pin factory fitted sound. Possibly others too.

 

If Hornby were to use the 21 pin chassis for all new models, it wouldn't make a difference to DC users or 8 pin users (using adaptor) but would allow people to use 21 pin decoders and have space for a speaker without the need to remove the working fans. It could also be cheaper for Hornby due to the smaller 21 pin board and the economies of scale by having just one type of circuit board.

[Roy Langridge]

8 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

Coal sector 56091, 56095, 56127 and Colas 56094 all came with 21 pin factory fitted sound. Possibly others too.

 

If Hornby were to use the 21 pin chassis for all new models, it wouldn't make a difference to DC users or 8 pin users (using adaptor) but would allow people to use 21 pin decoders and have space for a speaker without the need to remove the working fans. It could also be cheaper for Hornby due to the smaller 21 pin board and the economies of scale by having just one type of circuit board.

 

Whilst I fully agree with what you say, Hornby seem focussed on the 8 pin version for their TTS sound chips. Until they consider a 21pin TTS chip, I doubt that they will consider 21pin locos as sound will be harder as (for diesels at least) sound equipped now use the TTS chip.

 

I am sure that at some point they will make that decision, and gain from it, but I don't see it coming soon.

Roy 

[scottrains29]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Whilst I fully agree with what you say, Hornby seem focussed on the 8 pin version for their TTS sound chips. Until they consider a 21pin TTS chip, I doubt that they will consider 21pin locos as sound will be harder as (for diesels at least) sound equipped now use the TTS chip.

 

I am sure that at some point they will make that decision, and gain from it, but I don't see it coming soon.

Roy 

If Hornby produced only their 21 pin locos from now on and provided an adaptor (either standalone or with loco or 8 pin TTS) people could still use 8 pin TTS. I've fitted 8 pin class 66 TTS to my Hattons 21 pin class 66 locos, providing reasonable sound and all basic light functions.

 

If (when) Hornby get round to 21 pin sound decoders people could then easily upgrade their locos, providing Hornby with additional income.

 

Even without a 21 pin Hornby decoder, a 21 pin chassis would also make their locos more appealing as you would have a bigger choice of sound decoders to use depending on budget (8 pin Hornby TTS or other 21 pin). Currently I don't think the 8 pin 56 even has space for sound. Surely this must put people off buying them.

[markw]

18 minutes ago, scottrains29 said:

If Hornby produced only their 21 pin locos from now on and provided an adaptor (either standalone or with loco or 8 pin TTS) people could still use 8 pin TTS. I've fitted 8 pin class 66 TTS to my Hattons 21 pin class 66 locos, providing reasonable sound and all basic light functions.

 

If (when) Hornby get round to 21 pin sound decoders people could then easily upgrade their locos, providing Hornby with additional income.

 

Even without a 21 pin Hornby decoder, a 21 pin chassis would also make their locos more appealing as you would have a bigger choice of sound decoders to use depending on budget (8 pin Hornby TTS or other 21 pin). Currently I don't think the 8 pin 56 even has space for sound. Surely this must put people off buying them.

But the 21 pin circuit board does not have the DC constant brightness circuit so would be a downgrade for DC users. 

[APT Fan]

Are the Hornby Class 56 Sound decoders okay? I've heard that the sound and functionality from TTS decoders can be reasonable but I've never actually seen a Class 56 TTS decoder for sale? I notice there was a factory fitted loco R3291XS from 2014 which is a few years ago. Did they just stop doing sound for the 56? 

[Hilux5972]

10 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

Are the Hornby Class 56 Sound decoders okay? I've heard that the sound and functionality from TTS decoders can be reasonable but I've never actually seen a Class 56 TTS decoder for sale? I notice there was a factory fitted loco R3291XS from 2014 which is a few years ago. Did they just stop doing sound for the 56? 

Any sound loco from Hornby with an XS in the code is a full fat dcc sound decoder. All the TTS locos have TTS at the end of the code. I don’t see a 56 TTS decoder listed in the catalogue this year. 

[APT Fan]

11 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Any sound loco from Hornby with an XS in the code is a full fat dcc sound decoder. All the TTS locos have TTS at the end of the code. I don’t see a 56 TTS decoder listed in the catalogue this year. 

 

What you are saying makes sense now. So do the TTS decoders tend to be used with the Railroad range rather than across the board? I must admit to finding the 2021 Hornby catalogue a little confusing in terms of what's in which range and what's behind the 'sound fitted' decisions.

[newbryford]

39 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

What you are saying makes sense now. So do the TTS decoders tend to be used with the Railroad range rather than across the board? I must admit to finding the 2021 Hornby catalogue a little confusing in terms of what's in which range and what's behind the 'sound fitted' decisions.

 

TTS decoders are fitted to the likes of 60s and HST's as well as the railroad 37s. So yes - across the board.

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, APT Fan said:

 

What you are saying makes sense now. So do the TTS decoders tend to be used with the Railroad range rather than across the board? I must admit to finding the 2021 Hornby catalogue a little confusing in terms of what's in which range and what's behind the 'sound fitted' decisions.

 

They are across the board but are a low cost alternative to the usual suspects in terms of sound decoders (and the premium they carry when factory fitted reflects that). They are good value if the decoder does what you want it to do. I don't tend to use them as I like having Railcom.

 

Before TTS they used to use ESU, and they even had special circuits in there to facilitate them (21 pin on the main board, common positive for the lighting).

Edited February 2, 2021 by TomScrut

[Hilux5972]

5 hours ago, APT Fan said:

 

What you are saying makes sense now. So do the TTS decoders tend to be used with the Railroad range rather than across the board? I must admit to finding the 2021 Hornby catalogue a little confusing in terms of what's in which range and what's behind the 'sound fitted' decisions.

Since they developed the TTS sound, they haven’t used full fat sound decoders again. A shame really but understandable. Some people really moan if a loco with a certain name is only released as TTS, and that’s only a £30-£40ish premium over the standard loco price. If it was a £100ish premium cost, there would be hell to pay with some I think. 

[TomScrut]

4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Since they developed the TTS sound, they haven’t used full fat sound decoders again. A shame really but understandable. Some people really moan if a loco with a certain name is only released as TTS, and that’s only a £30-£40ish premium over the standard loco price. If it was a £100ish premium cost, there would be hell to pay with some I think. 

 

Most of the time that 30-40 quid can be recouped anyway given TTS chips come in dribs and drabs.

 

I bought my Dowlow 60 from a dealer who had stripped it of its TTS for another customer but I'd have done the same had I not been able to get one.

[Hilux5972]

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Most of the time that 30-40 quid can be recouped anyway given TTS chips come in dribs and drabs.

Yes I know and I have done so in the last myself. However not everyone is comfortable opening up a brand new loco themselves, and in my experience, not all retailers are happy or willing to open up a loco and remove part of it. 

[APT Fan]

Whilst we are on the subject of TTS, I notice there is an 08 due for release R3898TTS but I can't find a full description. Will this be fitted with lighting?

[YesTor]

4 hours ago, APT Fan said:

Whilst we are on the subject of TTS, I notice there is an 08 due for release R3898TTS but I can't find a full description. Will this be fitted with lighting?

 

If it is then it will be the first Hornby 08 to ever feature lighting of any kind.  Highly unlikely I would have thought.