RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 There was something said in the commentary about penalties not being announced in red flag time, is this to prevent strategy being changed accordingly before the restart? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Where I find it baffling is Hamilton is guilty of causing the crash, as shown by the penalty, and putting max in hospital yet even with the penalty goes on to win the race, so not really a punishment anyway. as for the union flag at the end, hope they don't pin point the marshall who gave it to him otherwise that could be the last GP he or she marshals at! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, ianwales said: Where I find it baffling is Hamilton is guilty of causing the crash, as shown by the penalty, and putting max in hospital yet even with the penalty goes on to win the race, so not really a punishment anyway. as for the union flag at the end, hope they don't pin point the marshall who gave it to him otherwise that could be the last GP he or she marshals at! He was judged to be the more guilty party, neither were blameless - Verstappen kept going as much as Hamilton. The problem is that the Red Bull PR machine wants people to believe the Verstappen is completely blameless, out for a Sunday run in his car when an aggressive boy racer took him out on a corner that you cannot overtake on, despite there being two other passes on the same corner in the same race by the same driver. They are now talking legal action, which sounds to me like the FIA have decided there is nothing more to do or say on the incident but Red Bull want to continue the fight. It's all a ploy to keep their man in the lead and will use any lever they can to manage it. Hamilton has done what they normally do and used aggressive tactics and now they don't like it so they up the ante. Calm heads are needed here, the danger is that Verstappen may act in the same manner and combust. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 37 minutes ago, ianwales said: Where I find it baffling is Hamilton is guilty of causing the crash, as shown by the penalty, and putting max in hospital yet even with the penalty goes on to win the race, so not really a punishment anyway. Is the penalty meant to apportion some blame for an incident or to stop someone winning? I'm not a fan of MV and think a situation such as this was going to happen sooner or later, the problem for MV was that he found someone who wasn't going to be bullied and he came off worse. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I think the problem with time penalties is that the top end drivers have the talent to overcome a time penalty more than drivers further down the order, some other formula take away points when a driver is guilty of a misdemeanour, but, then you run into the problem of how do you deal with a driver with no championship points. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2021 Maybe someone should show this to Mr Horner . 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didcot Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 You only have to look at Vettels wheel banging at Baku to see that penalties are sometimes not proportionate to the crime. That should have been a race ban. Totally unacceptable. For me it was a racing incident on lap one. Both could have backed out but didn't. Karun Chandok did show a number of incidents of Max's aggressive driving in which Lewis backed out. The no weaving rule was a result of some Max's behaviour. He has form. Lewis has even admitted to driving differently around him. My youngest had christened him Crash Verstappen some time ago. RB do like a media tantrum when it's not going their way. Had it been the other way around they would have seen it as a racing incident. I suspect Mercedes would have been a bit more restrained in their response. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 I think the marshalls gave ten seconds as a token penalty because they apportioned the blame about 51/49. It didn’t deserve to wreck Hamilton’s race but as both contributed something had to be done. Merc and Lewis don’t agree with any penalty but took it on the chin as Max ended up in hospital for checks. I didn’t really agree with DC and MW saying it was Lewis during the C4 commentary but they were pumped at Lewis’ recovery and win so I guess they felt that was a fair solution. No driver has come out and complained like they have with other ‘dangerous’ driving incidents so I guess that means most consider it a racing incident. Lando was diplomatic and just said I don’t want to p—- anyone off after the race so no strong feelings He’s really got his head together, driving the car to the max and comes across well on camera. If it wasn’t for Lando I guess people would be blaming the car for Daniels position 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 5 hours ago, ianwales said: Where I find it baffling is Hamilton is guilty of causing the crash, as shown by the penalty, and putting max in hospital yet even with the penalty goes on to win the race, so not really a punishment anyway. as for the union flag at the end, hope they don't pin point the marshall who gave it to him otherwise that could be the last GP he or she marshals at! I think he was given it by one of the Merc pit crew - Lewis (as he usually does) slowed down alongside the pit wall when he crossed the line. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Wonder who will blink first next time... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) Interesting difference from the current drivers to the pundits in the BBC story ”Two-time champion Fernando Alonso and Leclerc both said it was a 'racing incident' in which neither driver was more to blame than the other. But ex-F1 drivers Mark Webber and David Coulthard both said in their roles as Channel 4 pundits that Hamilton was at fault.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57920998 Tacit support from two current drivers who aren’t shy with opinion so the next drivers briefing shouldn’t be too grumpy. I think Max may be a bit put out by the celebration thing, which as noted in several places Lewis thought he was still at the course, but quietly knows he’d do the same thing and will no doubt use that in future. It’s been remarkably quiet since so I reckon RB are torn because they know if they actually create a real fuss it is very likely to bite them later. It’ll allow him to make comments and put spikes on his elbow pads in his head Interesting to hear the views of the pundits at the next race once it’s been watched a few times and considered. Edited July 21, 2021 by PaulRhB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Interesting difference from the current drivers to the pundits in the BBC story ”Two-time champion Fernando Alonso and Leclerc both said it was a 'racing incident' in which neither driver was more to blame than the other. But ex-F1 drivers Mark Webber and David Coulthard both said in their roles as Channel 4 pundits that Hamilton was at fault.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57920998 Tacit support from two current drivers who aren’t shy with opinion so the next drivers briefing shouldn’t be too grumpy. I think Max may be a bit put out by the celebration thing, which as noted in several places Lewis thought he was still at the course, but quietly knows he’d do the same thing and will no doubt use that in future. It’s been remarkably quiet since so I reckon RB are torn because they know if they actually create a real fuss it is very likely to bite them later. It’ll allow him to make comments and put spikes on his elbow pads in his head Interesting to hear the views of the pundits at the next race once it’s been watched a few times and considered. And the fact that both C4 Pundits, as has already been pointed out, have been RB Drivers, and still use the RB facilities as shown by DC in the build up to the event, so are unlikely to want to upset Little Chris Horner and Co. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 There will be a very frosty MV towards LH at the next race. Putting those two together in a press conference would really stir things up and would no doubt lead to more "issues" on track. I would hope that MV takes a look at his aggressive driving and learns to calm down a bit. Fortunately no serious injuries this time, but another crash may not be so lucky. A crash between these two was always likely this season. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy100 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) Helmut Marko says Max Verstappen won’t resort to “revenge or other ” against Lewis Hamilton, but Red Bull may still get their lawyers involved. Does this mean that "everytime" Max bumps wheels with anyone, lawyers will be come involved? Edited July 21, 2021 by Bulleidboy100 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, mudmagnet said: There will be a very frosty MV towards LH at the next race. Putting those two together in a press conference would really stir things up and would no doubt lead to more "issues" on track. I would hope that MV takes a look at his aggressive driving and learns to calm down a bit. Fortunately no serious injuries this time, but another crash may not be so lucky. A crash between these two was always likely this season. That might well happen but I can't see LH taking the bait during a press conference. As for MV learning from this and toning down his aggression, I doubt it will happen. MV seems to have a sense of entitlement and being molly coddled with threats of lawyers can only make him worse. MV reminds of someone I knew years ago who people thought was a good rider. As time passes and you look back you realise that he was actually not that good and it was only others keeping away from him when he was being reckless that meant he survived. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, chris p bacon said: As for MV learning from this and toning down his aggression, I doubt it will happen. MV seems to have a sense of entitlement and being molly coddled with threats of lawyers can only make him worse. It doesn't help that CH/Dr Marko/RBR also seem to share this same sense of entitlement. It may be just my perception, but the last few years seems to have been RB against the world - and that includes their run of success in the early 2010s. I can't help thinking that if the incident had happened at the likes of Paul Ricard and Max had ended up in the massive run-off areas without a terminally damaged car, recover back to the pits and finish 4th, then CH would be be a bit quieter saying they made the best of a racing incident that was partly Lewis' fault? And a few inches the other way, Lewis has a damaged wing and limps back to the pits and recovers to 10th, Max goes onto win. Then RB's (CH's) tune would be very, very different. As for retrospective legal action, maybe McLaren and Ferrari could sue Merc because they were overtaken at the same corner? Edited July 21, 2021 by newbryford 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2021 Shouldn't the gunner be facing backwards? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 5 hours ago, RJS1977 said: I think he was given it by one of the Merc pit crew - Lewis (as he usually does) slowed down alongside the pit wall when he crossed the line. (Or possibly he had it with him in the cockpit already "just in case") 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 FIA hint at behind-closed-doors talks with Hamilton and Verstappen. https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67716/fia-hint-at-behind-closed-doors-talks-with-hamilton-and-verstappen/?fbclid=IwAR2NMSNiPeJEZilO-VHLjbkE8QXLVpzVQ_j8wd91XqUeThW5wmcKweF9C1U 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2021 11 hours ago, ianwales said: Where I find it baffling is Hamilton is guilty of causing the crash, as shown by the penalty, and putting max in hospital yet even with the penalty goes on to win the race, so not really a punishment anyway. as for the union flag at the end, hope they don't pin point the marshall who gave it to him otherwise that could be the last GP he or she marshals at! The problem is that you have to punish the action, not the outcome. imagine Max had simply wobbled slightly, drifted wide and Lewis had slipped through, then what should the penalty be? Don't get the issue with the flag. Good for drivers to show patriotism, all for that. He did no one any harm. 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 On 18/07/2021 at 15:39, Jonboy said: Interesting to see Mercedes glueing and taping the front wing damage, budget cap showing??? Mercedes have released a post-race Q&A with James Allison on their Facebook page today. Apparently there was no real damage to the wing itself, but a sensor (which reads the tyre temperature) had been knocked loose. As the wing itself was undamaged and was set up how they wanted it (and manufacturing tolerances apparently mean no two wings are identical), Mercedes opted to reattach the sensor rather than replace a wing they knew worked well with one that might not be as good. 2 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 7 hours ago, Andrew P said: FIA hint at behind-closed-doors talks with Hamilton and Verstappen. https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67716/fia-hint-at-behind-closed-doors-talks-with-hamilton-and-verstappen/?fbclid=IwAR2NMSNiPeJEZilO-VHLjbkE8QXLVpzVQ_j8wd91XqUeThW5wmcKweF9C1U The pro-RB comments below the article are hilarious. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Max and Windbag need to get their trousers back on... As for Lewis? I can hear his response... "Go ahead Max, make my day!" 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Andrew P said: FIA hint at behind-closed-doors talks with Hamilton and Verstappen. https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67716/fia-hint-at-behind-closed-doors-talks-with-hamilton-and-verstappen/?fbclid=IwAR2NMSNiPeJEZilO-VHLjbkE8QXLVpzVQ_j8wd91XqUeThW5wmcKweF9C1U The article was almost bang on when it said the rivalry had ben brewing all year. It goes back further. In previous seasons, Hamilton could afford to back out because he was scoring bigger points more often. This made his clashes with Albon rather bizarre. & RB don't seem to see past their own team. In several incidents thig season, Hamilton has been the one to back out in order to avoid a collision. This has prompted some on social media to claim "Hamilton can't handle the pressure". After Sunday's collision, guess what I saw on social media? It was apparently because "Hamilton can't handle the pressure". It is quite laughable to be honest. 53 minutes ago, iak said: Max and Windbag need to get their trousers back on... As for Lewis? I can hear his response... "Go ahead Max, make my day!" Exactly. Hamilton is not a multiple world champion because he happily lets others past. I have always maintained that if you try to push for 100%, you will occasionally go too far. 101% is when problems happen. If you err on the side of safety, 98% is not good enough. Somebody who is trying to give 100% (& occasionally goes too far) will beat you. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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