Formula 1 2021

[Zomboid]

9 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

of my reasoning for wanting to see the result overturned is that it would pressure Liberty to actually do something about this nonsense, if they get away with it there is nothing to stop them continuing along the same route and having further farce results in the future

I just can't see how it would be any fairer for a court to decide in however many weeks time that actually the last 5 laps of the GP should be declared void, resulting in a different championship outcome.

 

It would make even more of a mockery of things than they already have, and that's saying something.

[didcot]

Just over 24 hours later and I still can't believe the utter shambles yesterday was. Billed as a major event, what must the casual viewer think of F1.

I think the governing body need to take a long hard look at themselves and the sport.

In the last few years we have seen Ferrari with suspect engines, but no punishment or explanation. Red Bulls%it with bendy rear wings, but allowed to carry one. Team principles and managers bargaining, influencing and cajoling the FIA. Inconsistent track limits and penalties for drivers. Team bosses constantly moaning its not fair and pointing the finger. Its a joke. 

Contravening technical regulations needs a swift reprimand and exclusion. Not time to to sort it out. Track limits should be the white line at all circuits and penalties applied. Bad driving needs stamping on. No wooly rules as per Brazil, which set a president.

Bargaining or influencing the FIA should incur penalties. They are there to up hold the rules. Team Principles and Manager should only be able to seek clarification, not argue the toss. 

Red flag and safety car rules need looking at so no one gains or loses an advantage. 

Finally the FIA need to be impartial and stick to the rules, not make them up as they go along.

[Gareth Collier]

Just wondering if Masi is involved in UEFA as well after the Champion League draw fiasco today. Apparently it was a software issue even though it is balls drawn out of a pot. I guess someone didn't like the draw so they did it again to get the desired result.

[rocor]

8 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi again Ian,

 

Yes I agree with the sentiments you express, I have hinted at the suspect direction the sport is taking in previous posts. If the FIA regulations increasingly move towards a "standard" F1 car which manufacturers can then bolt their engine onto then its all over for F1 as far as I am concerned.

For me F1 was not just about great drivers it was also about great competative engineering to "improve the breed". Liberty will require the sport to become an entertainment with goodies and badies and a close finish and in that respect I think that a number of decisions this year have been designed to ensure this outcome, i.e. the one we got. This approach has both favoured/dissapointed both camps as the season has progressed.

 

As I may have mentioned before, roll on Le Mans 2023 and sports car racing!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

It would be more in keeping with the ethos of the constructors' championship to mandate standard engines. Then the teams could continue to have the freedom regarding chassis design that they now enjoy.

 

That way, one team would not have an advantage, that was baked in right from the start of a new engine formula, due to them having developed the best power unit. Whereas other engine producers, were restricted in what evolutionary work they could undertake to improve theirs, by the constraints to further progress that were imposed upon them by the new rules.

[PaulRhB]

A slightly cooler headed assessment from David Croft, but despite what he says about being upset people think it was a fix the media have to look at why they couldn’t explain it wasn’t yesterday?

Simple answer because Masi made an error that handed the relatively simple opportunity to Max.
It wasn’t a tactical blunder by MB it was impossible for them to pit without handing the race to Max if the safety car stayed out so they knew there wasn’t time. 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

9 hours ago, 30368 said:

For me F1 was not just about great drivers it was also about great competative engineering to "improve the breed"

Exactly this for me, all of this cost cutting, and additional rules around number of engines etc just dilutes the formula.  At the very least I would much rather see a hard budget cap of x m$ per year, to include engine (at a fixed price per unit), testing and car dev (maybe with a fixed allowance for driver salary).  how you spend it then is up to the teams.  If you want to have a new engine every race, fine, just means you have worse aero or visa versa.   If you come up with an ingenious solution like the double defuser, fan car or the 6 wheelers,  go with it (but the extra cost of development it cost coming up with it may hit you elsewhere.)  Likewise it would also encourage the smaller teams to think outside the box to come up with a way of beating the dominant teams rather than the same old every year.

 

53 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I just can't see how it would be any fairer for a court to decide in however many weeks time that actually the last 5 laps of the GP should be declared void, resulting in a different championship outcome.

I guess its fairer in that the result that should have happened if the rules were followed correctly would be the result?    Its not the last 5 laps of the GP that should be declared void, its the last lap (ie after Maisi breaking the rules on releasing the backmarkers / the restart and Max overtaking under a safety car)

 

Given the rate at which they have been brining out red flags this year, I cant understand why on earth they didnt avoid all this nonsense, red flag the race, stick new tires on and have a 5 lap sprint lap for the title.  It would have been a whole lot fairer on Lewis 

[Zomboid]

12 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

guess its fairer in that the result that should have happened if the rules were followed correctly would be the result

But what would that have been? 999 times out of 1000 it would have been Lewis, but no one can be 100% certain, and cutting a race distance down retrospectively because what happened on the last few laps is deemed "wrong" is a dreadful precedent to set. Once you open that Pandora's box then you can't close it again.

 

There's no good way out of this mess. But the least bad (IMO) is to say "ok, that happened, it was a dreadful idea and this is how we're going to prevent it happening in future".

[LNERandBR]

The problem is, does the FIA understand that what happened was bad? Remember, there's a lot of fans out there who will be very happy that Hamilton was 'prevented' from taking 'yet another' title.

[Zomboid]

If they don't then F1 becomes a manufactured WWE style circus rather than a sporting event.

 

I think the FIA can work that out, though whether they can get the message though to Liberty is another matter.

[PaulRhB]

Just hope the cars are relatively even next year and there’s a fight to the last race without all this rules confusion. 
If you dive for the inside forcing the other off the track, then the give the place back rule is suspended. You can even put a line on the track where the decision is taken as to who’s in front to decide if the one on the outside should bail out or give the place back if they go wide. 
Max pushed it throughout the season and then they moan when Lewis pushed it back in response  

Any other race of the season and they would have been more philosophical  about the restart but for a last lap shootout it should have been on equal terms not the sitting duck scenario. 

[newbryford]

32 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If they don't then F1 becomes a manufactured WWE style circus rather than a sporting event.

 

I think the FIA can work that out, though whether they can get the message though to Liberty is another matter.

 

I'll bet if Liberty were told F1 is becoming a circus, they'll be rubbing their greedy mitts together.................

[Zomboid]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

I'll bet if Liberty were told F1 is becoming a circus, they'll be rubbing their greedy mitts together.................

If it turns out that that's what people actually want to watch...

[newbryford]

Just now, Zomboid said:

If it turns out that that's what people actually want to watch...

 

Unfortunately, some probably do.

[Nimbus]

37 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If they don't then F1 becomes a manufactured WWE style circus rather than a sporting event.

Or a _very_ expensive reality TV elimination competition. That artificial manipulation of the end

of the race, as has been observed elsewhere, was like Team MB being 12-up with 5 minutes to go 

in a football final, when injury stoppage occurred. Whereupon on restart the referee said "Right,

next goal scored wins!"

 

Just as many rock bands wouldn't dream of entering X-Factor, could MB decide that participation/

acquiescence with the current direction of F1 no longer reflects their wider brand image of 

engineering excellence, and decide to walk away? It was a possibility floated by Damon Hill in

post-race discussion. I expect it would be painful to throw away the resources they must have

sunk into next season's car, so perhaps an announcement that next season will be their last?

Maybe prior to going public with this step they would have escalated through the FIA appeals

process and a demand for Massi's scalp?

 

Which opens up the discussion point: "Who else would have a seat to do Lewis justice?"

 

The Nim.

 

[black and decker boy]

24 minutes ago, Nimbus said:

 

 

Which opens up the discussion point: "Who else would have a seat to do George justice?"

 

 

 

I’ve corrected that for you.

Lewis will go and do all the other things he has lined up (unless Ferrari are completely ruthless and sack one to bring him in, I can’t see him going to anyone else).

 

The alternative is the 66% of Wolff & Ineos continue as an independent (like Brawn) and bring in someone else with deep pockets to buy MBs 33% - Andretti? Monster Energy? Hornby?

[LNERandBR]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

 

Some very good points in this BBC article. 

 

I think I've said it already, despite being a Lewis fan I'm no longer bothered that Max won the title. 

 

What I am bothered about is the overall effects on F1. The race direction needs to change, be that Masi being replaced or the overall way it's done being changed to a team of people rather than just one person.

[Pete the Elaner]

13 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

Yes Fernando has - "Justice has been done". 

 

Fred is heavily biased.

He has never forgiven Hamilton for upstaging him as a rookie when he was the current WC. 

[Pete the Elaner]

4 hours ago, didcot said:

Just over 24 hours later and I still can't believe the utter shambles yesterday was. Billed as a major event, what must the casual viewer think of F1.

I think the governing body need to take a long hard look at themselves and the sport.

In the last few years we have seen Ferrari with suspect engines, but no punishment or explanation. Red Bulls%it with bendy rear wings, but allowed to carry one. Team principles and managers bargaining, influencing and cajoling the FIA. Inconsistent track limits and penalties for drivers. Team bosses constantly moaning its not fair and pointing the finger. Its a joke. 

Contravening technical regulations needs a swift reprimand and exclusion. Not time to to sort it out. Track limits should be the white line at all circuits and penalties applied. Bad driving needs stamping on. No wooly rules as per Brazil, which set a president.

Bargaining or influencing the FIA should incur penalties. They are there to up hold the rules. Team Principles and Manager should only be able to seek clarification, not argue the toss. 

Red flag and safety car rules need looking at so no one gains or loses an advantage. 

Finally the FIA need to be impartial and stick to the rules, not make them up as they go along.

 

Now is the right time to do this as well. There have been plenty of incidents this season which have exposed loopholes & weaknesses in the rules & their application. These can be addressed ready for the new season & the teams given the chance to learn them.

They need to be sensible so they can be enforced rigidly. Any rule which should be overlooked because it may not be fair is wrong & needs correcting.

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, didcot said:

Just over 24 hours later and I still can't believe the utter shambles yesterday was. Billed as a major event, what must the casual viewer think of F1.

I think the governing body need to take a long hard look at themselves and the sport.

In the last few years we have seen Ferrari with suspect engines, but no punishment or explanation. Red Bulls%it with bendy rear wings, but allowed to carry one. Team principles and managers bargaining, influencing and cajoling the FIA. Inconsistent track limits and penalties for drivers. Team bosses constantly moaning its not fair and pointing the finger. Its a joke. 

Contravening technical regulations needs a swift reprimand and exclusion. Not time to to sort it out. Track limits should be the white line at all circuits and penalties applied. Bad driving needs stamping on. No wooly rules as per Brazil, which set a president.

Bargaining or influencing the FIA should incur penalties. They are there to up hold the rules. Team Principles and Manager should only be able to seek clarification, not argue the toss. 

Red flag and safety car rules need looking at so no one gains or loses an advantage. 

Finally the FIA need to be impartial and stick to the rules, not make them up as they go along.

 

Agreed with most of this. Personally I don't have an issue with drivers being able to pit under red flag or safety car - it adds a degree of chance to the race to shake things up a bit and to my mind is no worse than a driver who'd put a new set of slicks on two laps before it rains losing out to a driver who stayed out the extra two laps and went on to wets. Besides, over the course of a season, any advantage from the red flags/safety cars probably evens itself out.

[Oldddudders]

I thought this, from an unusual source, demonstrated the saga quite well, and indicates the level of interest Sunday has created.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-59645658

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Oldddudders

[Pete the Elaner]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Agreed with most of this. Personally I don't have an issue with drivers being able to pit under red flag or safety car - it adds a degree of chance to the race to shake things up a bit and to my mind is no worse than a driver who'd put a new set of slicks on two laps before it rains losing out to a driver who stayed out the extra two laps and went on to wets. Besides, over the course of a season, any advantage from the red flags/safety cars probably evens itself out.

 

It is also the potential for abuse which prompted Renault to order Piquet Jnr to crash in 2008, after Alonso made a strangely-timed pit stop.

That possibility is still open to abuse & it in only a 'gentleman's agreement' prevents it happening again. How long before someone has so much to gain that they simply do it anyway. The rules can be changed to prevent it.

[Andrew P]

And getting fired up for 2022 and beyond.

 

F1 teams begin post-season test in Abu Dhabi

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/f1-teams-begin-post-season-test-in-abu-dhabi-2/

[EddieB]

19 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

It is also the potential for abuse which prompted Renault to order Piquet Jnr to crash in 2008, after Alonso made a strangely-timed pit stop.

Remind me, please - what’s the name of Max’s girlfriend?

[Oldddudders]

Piquet - defined as "a trick-taking card game for two players"

[jcm@gwr]

Another interesting twist in this murky tale, 

firstly, there are rumours that Netflix are making a film about this season

(and it wouldn't be good for the plot if everything was 'by the book' would it?)

secondly, Liberty Media are looking to buy Netflix, hmm, makes you wonder!