RevolutioN Trains Announce First Locomotive in OO Gauge the Class 93

[letterspider]

1 hour ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi there,

 

For any 'what's the latest on...' type questions please see here: https://revolutiontrains.com/projects/

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

so delivery could be about one year after the order book closes...? Hopefully the Class 93 gets into service sooner rather than later

[Alan Oliver]

Presume CAD and other design work has been going on in the background which they aren’t allowed to share.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi all,

 

We have shown CAD before on this:

 

 

What we are doing now is comparing the material we were sent by Stadler with the actual locomotive we filmed recently to see if we can identify discrepancies to be corrected before tooling begins.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[letterspider]

Looks great!

[adb968008]

20 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi all,

 

We have shown CAD before on this:

 

 

What we are doing now is comparing the material we were sent by Stadler with the actual locomotive we filmed recently to see if we can identify discrepancies to be corrected before tooling begins.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Fantastic.

 

when viewing it in black and white, rather than the Green livery applied to the real thing, its looking much closer to a European spec loco… that yellow end makes things look very British.

 

 

Edited March 4 by adb968008

[Revolution Ben]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Fantastic.

 

when viewing it in black and white, rather than the Green livery applied to the real thing, its looking much closer to a European spec loco… that yellow end makes things look very British.

 

 

 

The design is very much to Stadler's 'house' style, and incorporates some standard items such as lights, cab quarterlights etc but obviously the whole thing has been sized to fit the UK loading gauge.   Personally I think the Stadler locomotives are a good-looking design, and the ROG's green livery suits them well.

 

But I suppose I would say that!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited March 4 by Revolution Ben

[TravisM]

I heard today that DRS might be wanting to trial a Class 93 as they are possibly looking to becoming an all Vossloh/Stadler fleet.  The guy I spoke to genuinely seemed to know what he was talking about as DRS are wanting to have a single ‘common’ fleet, but you know what the jungle drums are like, so let’s wait and see 

[MarshLane]

22 hours ago, TravisM said:

I heard today that DRS might be wanting to trial a Class 93 as they are possibly looking to becoming an all Vossloh/Stadler fleet.  The guy I spoke to genuinely seemed to know what he was talking about as DRS are wanting to have a single ‘common’ fleet, but you know what the jungle drums are like, so let’s wait and see 

 

Could be interesting in a couple of ways, especially as 50% of the DRS 88 fleet is currently stopped - with 88001 having not worked since November 2022, 88008 has not been in traffic since February 2022 and 88009 was stopped in July, all are at Kingmoor, while 88003 was stopped at Crewe in November 2023 and 88004 has been at Motherwell for 12 months.

#off-topic - sorry!

Edited March 5 by MarshLane

[adb968008]

Flickr turns up this image of 93009, with 93007 behind.

Flickr url / not mine.

 

 

[MarshLane]

41 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Flickr turns up this image of 93009, with 93007 behind.

 

All nine remaining '93s' are ready for delivery, and parked in this line at Valencia, waiting for ROG to accept them.  The shot is taken in Valencia for anyone who doesn't click through to Flickr.  Nice shot!

[TravisM]

On 05/03/2024 at 21:45, MarshLane said:

 

Could be interesting in a couple of ways, especially as 50% of the DRS 88 fleet is currently stopped - with 88001 having not worked since November 2022, 88008 has not been in traffic since February 2022 and 88009 was stopped in July, all are at Kingmoor, while 88003 was stopped at Crewe in November 2023 and 88004 has been at Motherwell for 12 months.

#off-topic - sorry!

Could that not be the same story with their Class 68’s?  Having lost the TPE contract and a number of them stored due to lack of work, I have to question the viability of DRS trying out a Class 93, unless their looking to the future and where most of their traffic will be under the wires.

Edited March 7 by TravisM
Spelling

[XChris]

Interesting to see that all 9 remaining class 93’s are built and sat in Valencia. Delays to 001’s acceptance must be the reason for them staying there, no doubt something at Network Rail is holding them up from being allowed to start mainline testing!

[letterspider]

Well...before Brexit all EU countries would have the same regulations and safety standards in many areas and following testing in Spain...it would simply be a matter of translation. Perhaps since then ALL systems must be recertified in the UK...?

[derekdoestrains]

1 hour ago, letterspider said:

Well...before Brexit all EU countries would have the same regulations and safety standards in many areas and following testing in Spain...it would simply be a matter of translation. Perhaps since then ALL systems must be recertified in the UK...?

they still would have had to go through the UK acceptance process even when we were part of the EU, under the management of change process… can’t just “assume” because somethings done to a standard (or indeed something has been in the country for years) that you can run it straight away… even stock transfers within the same company to a different region are a raft of paperwork…

[The Meerkat]

Grand Union wants to use LENER class 91s & / Or ROG Class 93,  pulling 9 Mk4s and a DVT from Paddington to South Wales and from London Euston to Sterling

 

Grand Union is set up by the person who formed Grand Central then sold it to Arriva

Edited March 7 by The Meerkat

[Cruachan]

5 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

Grand Union wants to use LENER class 91s & / Or ROG Class 93,  pulling 9 Mk4s and a DVT from Paddington to South Wales and from London Euston to Sterling

 

Grand Union is set up by the person who formed Grand Central then sold it to Arriva

Those rolling stock proposals were superseded, as mark 4 stock is not available for introduction during the appropriate timescales. The Euston to Stirling service, approved today, is intended to be introduced using 22x stock, and 125mph capable "new-build bi-mode trains" are proposed for the previously approved Paddington - South Wales service.

[greg81]

CADs look terrific! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

 

Delighted to see the Grand Union route from Stirling to Euston now approved. That's taken an age!

 

I do hope they don't go down the route of the 22X demu stock. They were knackered in 2005 when I was still at university!

 

Is there no mileage in using the redundant Nova 3 mkV's, surely they could be used with an 88 or 93 (or converted to run with an ex DB 90)?

[Cruachan]

13 hours ago, greg81 said:

I do hope they don't go down the route of the 22X demu stock. They were knackered in 2005 when I was still at university!

 

Is there no mileage in using the redundant Nova 3 mkV's, surely they could be used with an 88 or 93 (or converted to run with an ex DB 90)?

None of those loco classes would be able to utilise the 110mph+ 'MU' speed limits that are being introduced on the Euston - Rugby section of the WCML, which should keep the Grand Union services out of the way of the frequent Pendolinos.

 

22x should be able to, and are available in the right timeframe for the service startup; as perverse as it will be to reintroduce diesels under the wires working the full length of the WCML.

Edited March 8 by Cruachan

[No Decorum]

5 hours ago, Cruachan said:

None of those loco classes would be able to utilise the 110mph+ 'MU' speed limits that are being introduced on the Euston - Rugby section of the WCML, which should keep the Grand Union services out of the way of the frequent Pendolinos.

 

22x should be able to, and are available in the right timeframe for the service startup; as perverse as it will be to reintroduce diesels under the wires working the full length of the WCML.

The trouble is overcrowding on the WCML. They should build a relief line – oh, wait …

[XChris]

7 hours ago, No Decorum said:

The trouble is overcrowding on the WCML. They should build a relief line – oh, wait …

The trouble on most lines is they need to build more lines! 2 should become 4 and 4 become 6 etc… it’s much better than the slight gains we will get from ETCS, only so many trains you can funnel through so many lines!

 

That and unfortunately we don’t have any 125+mph capable locos, probably because we don’t make Co-Co locos anymore. Grand Union will use Units temporarily diesel but then Electric/Bi-mode.

 

Anyway back to these Revolutionary Class 93 models, I’ve heard they run on electric, battery and what’s that other one again…

[Kaput]

Lets not get too ahead of ourselves, nothing Grand Union have proposed so far has actually led to a service starting. Don't even think they could do 125 running on the WCML with 222's anyway, they can't tilt.

 

Should probably take the entire Grand Union discussion elsewhere, I doubt theres even any chance they'll be using the 93's.

[MarshLane]

Apologies to Revolution for the thread drift my comment caused.

 

On 07/03/2024 at 01:40, TravisM said:

Could that not be the same story with their Class 68’s?  Having lost the TPE contract and a number of them stored due to lack of work, I have to question the viability of DRS trying out a Class 93, unless their looking to the future and where most of their traffic will be under the wires.

 

No, I believe the Mk5a and 68s remain on hire to TPE until June - the (current) expiry of the original contract.  Which is why the TPE-liveried ones are not doing much. On paper they are still hired to TPE, if TPE choose not to use them or store them, thats their problem.  68025 and 68026 noted on Longsight today still coupled to Mk5a sets.  The 93s do have advantages over the 88s in some areas, but the high cost of electric for freight operators is still an issue, and part of the reason why DRS are in no hurry to operate all 10 of theirs at the moment.

 

On 07/03/2024 at 12:04, XChris said:

Interesting to see that all 9 remaining class 93’s are built and sat in Valencia. Delays to 001’s acceptance must be the reason for them staying there, no doubt something at Network Rail is holding them up from being allowed to start mainline testing!

 

No, I believe the Network Rail paperwork has been issued and its awaiting ROG to arrange the tests. That is *MY* understanding, which may of course be wrong.

 

On 07/03/2024 at 12:39, letterspider said:

Well...before Brexit all EU countries would have the same regulations and safety standards in many areas and following testing in Spain...it would simply be a matter of translation. Perhaps since then ALL systems must be recertified in the UK...?

 

We still conform to the EU requirements - that part of the EU law has not been changed yet.  Interestingly there was an issue recently (I cannot remember the exact full details) where the regulations required somebody on the EU side to sign off paperwork for UK rolling stock - they would not sign it off because the UK is no longer part of the EU - but our law still required it. I gather it took several weeks for somebody to legally be promoted to a position where they could take over that responsibility!  Nothing is simple in the rail industry!   However, while all standards and commissioning is to the same base level, UK acceptance (or homologation as they call it) would always have had to done in or out of the EU.  In the same way that a new loco built for Belgium (for example) has all the base EU paperwork, testing and documation completed, but still needs separate homologation for Holland, France, Germany etc..

 

The same has held true in the UK, both before and after Brexit, very little changed in that respect.  The '93s' have some of the work done, but the dynamic testing is outstanding.  However, there are other issues outstanding, that I cannot mention here.  Dynamic testing isnt the only thing.

 

 

[letterspider]

Do these locos use Lithium batteries? 

[MarshLane]

11 hours ago, letterspider said:

Do these locos use Lithium batteries? 

Yes they do - Lithium Titanate Oxide batteries (LTO) which are expensive but charge quickly.  The type of the LTO battery that is in the 93s is actually different to that specified when ordered, as the technology moved on the two years between contract signing and construction, and the current ones have a bigger capacity.  They are specifically modular, so that they could be swapped out for another style in a few years time if the technology continues to develop to give a battery that in the same space could deliver more power or higher capacity.

 

[letterspider]

That seems a bit scary to have potentially explosive Lithium batteries alongside gallons of diesel...Don't those batteries also require super cooling to prevent degradation?