Kernow Models Beattie Well Tank

[bertiedog]

Yes, it is indeed very, very subtle, but the shot should show the troublesome curves, not true circles, but an involute curve moving from a simple radius to make a smooth contact with the side in a transition, not on a point on the original circle.

This is an example of where such finer points may be missed and it leads to appearance being subtlety wrong, but it is such points that make a model more accurate.

 

Stephen.

[Peter Bedding]

Phil

 

As I said in my post of the 18th October: "Also the gap between the square splashers and the cab on 30586 which should not be there is also being addressed"

 

Hello Graham

 

Did you notice whether the smokebox door numberplate could be easily removed? A relevant issue only to those of us with modelling feet anchored firmly in Era 3.

 

PB

[S.A.C Martin]

Yes, it is indeed very, very subtle, but the shot should show the troublesome curves, not true circles, but an involute curve moving from a simple radius to make a smooth contact with the side in a transition, not on a point on the original circle.

This is an example of where such finer points may be missed and it leads to appearance being subtlety wrong, but it is such points that make a model more accurate.

 

Stephen.

 

Thanks Stephen, I do see it now. It's very subtle indeed, but still wrong to a degree.

 

Hasn't technology moved on! So much so, that we can now examine every last detail and make observations on a pre-production model to this degree.

[G-BOAF]

Bertiedog - did you photoshop the second model chimney in your montage, or did you just add variable radius curves round the edges, and the vents in the chimney cap? I can't tell if the actual chimney looks different.

 

I can't help but think that laser scanning is supposed to enable the shape to be got near 100% spot on, and avoid human error assocaited with hand measurement and drawing up of such parts. Clearly something has gone *slightly* wrong here.

Agreed it is minor. We're talking about fractions of a millimeter. BUT with laser scanning it SHOULD have been got right...

 

What does concern me is why no one spotted this on the CAD or at any stage prior to these pictures! When I say NO ONE, I mean Dapol, Kernow AND RMWEB!! We've been going on about buffer heights, motion brackets etc, but havn't spotted a not insignificant shape error.

 

Hopefully time for a tool tweak....?

[bertiedog]

The middle shot is the model, the right has been photo shopped to correct the curves, but it still is too wide at the top, as the soft ware for the CAD has given the wrong taper due to the complex position of the start of each line down the sides of the chimney. I suspect an auto line join up has been used from the coordinates, which may well be correct, but has resulted in a strange taper unrelated to the real thing.

 

As I said it is minor, and I was offering an explanation of why Laser Scanning has to be rigorously, and ruthlessly, examined to ensure such errors do not creep in, as it did on the Bachmann Deltic, again minor, but the subtle hood curves were not exactly to the real thing, despite all the reference points being exactly correct.

 

I do hope the correct chimney top will be done, the shape there is wrong as can be seen, also there are no rivets, which are very prominent on the real loco. Again the shape may be due to the scan being unable to sense the reversed dipping curve of the top ledge and seems in the CAD to have been interpreted as a straight coned surface, although this may have been introduced by the machinist in the moulds for cost or technical reasons.

 

Forgive me mentioning this problem, but it was my field in making master parts, and such details do show. It will not ruin the model to leave it, far worst mistakes are ones that can be lived with, and such a model as the Beattie is needed badly.

 

 

[buffalo]

Just to add to Stephen's (bertiedog) comments on the limitations and pitfalls of laser scanning, I think it is important to stress that the technology alone is not the silver bullet that some would have us believe. Success in creating an accurate model involves careful work at the scanning stage including choosing the positions to locate the scanner to get the best overall coverage. However, it is the subsequent processing and skilled manual manipulation of the resultant CAD model that really determines how good the final product will be. To understand this, it is necessary to understand how the process works, so I'll try to give a brief explanation.

 

Firstly the prototype is scanned from several positions. Each scan results in a 'point cloud' where each point is a single range and angular measurement. With a large prototype and using even the highest resolution scanners, these points may be several centimetres apart, so they only represent a small sample of the actual surface. The multiple point clouds are then combined to provide a single cloud which is a 3D representation of the surface.

 

To construct the CAD model, the points are converted (automatically) into a triangle mesh by joining each point to its nearest neighbours by a straight line. This model is only the starting point for the subsequent interpretation. Knowledge of the prototype is then required to know when to convert the straight lines into curves and, even then, details of complex curves may be missed. A similar problem occurs with corners and edges. The operator must know where to place these because they will, almost certainly, not be present in the point cloud (if the points are 2cm apart, what are the odds that a point actually falls on a sharp edge). The triangle mesh also often reveals areas of the original that have not been adequately scanned and for which there is no data. Effectively, these are holes in the model. This missing data will often need to be interpolated by the CAD operator.

 

The bottom line is that it is a wonderful technology for the rapid capture of shapes, but the accuracy of the final CAD model is entirely dependent on the skills of the scanner and CAD operators.

 

Nick

[Bernard Lamb]

An old luddite dinosaur like me basks in a smug satisfaction that modern laser scanning and CAD software cannot equal what I was expected to do with a hard pencil and a set of ships curves some forty years ago.

Bernard

[autocoach]

Still no answer on BR era smokebox number plates being removable. Or an alternate smokebox door casting?

[Peter Bedding]

Still no answer on BR era smokebox number plates being removable. Or an alternate smokebox door casting?

 

Thank you Ken.

 

Whist I am sure that it is true that Era 3 enthusiasts are reducing in quantity, (though not in quality), all the evidence is that Era 3 is still a viable sector of the market. All the more odd, then, whenever it appears to be neglected. I should love to have at least one BWT in an Era 3 livery (and Bulleid's utility black must be the cheapest to produce), and supplied with either a decoder fitted, or easily fitted without requiring high-level skills and even more luck to reassemble the loco.

 

I fully applaud the initiative to produce both the BWT and the 02, and will do my part when possible. I just hope the manufacturer will meet me half way.

 

PB

[autocoach]

According to my basic reference, An Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway, the BWT's were in unlined black by the late 1930's (p.301), hence an easy repaint by stripping off the BR emblems and numbers. I will have to see if the HRMS transfer sets have close to correct size "SOUTHERN" and numbers. Perhaps there is someone who can cast (brass) corrected chimneys and smoke box doors if the as delivered is wanting.

[darren01]

Hi all

 

I wonder if the BTW will be available at the Warley show?

 

If it comes out any later, say near Christmas it will have to wait until after, as buying present and all that will take most of my cash up.

 

Darren01

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

If you don't already have a pre-order in, Darren, may I suggest you place one. I believe there are very few left available at this stage with no guarantees of any at all post-release.

 

Kernow is advising that

85% of these models have been pre-sold.

and also that

Assuming no problems are found the finished model is due during December 2010.

 

You may assume that more than 85% are now sold since they continue to appear in the "Top Ten" best sellers on Kernow's site on which the text pages are not updated in real time as is the stock level. A prudent retailer may also keep back a small number in case they are required to replace defective ones; after all it isn't a case of simply ordering another box from the factory with these. Perhaps 90% spoken for would be a close figure.

[darren01]

HI Gwiwer

I have had a BTW on order with them for somtime now , i just wish it would have come out in November ,not December my other half would kill me if i get it then!!

I have emailed Kernow asking if they can hold the BTW for me ,untill after christmass ,but have not heard anything back.

All the best

Darren

[phil gollin]

With only 5 weeks to go can anyone confirm whether these will be available for Christmas ?

 

Thanks.

 

.

[Clay Country]

I've got one of these on order and could also do without it arriving pre-Christmas. Why do new models always arrive when you have the least cash?

[Anglian]

Its very promising that 85 per cent of the first batch have sold - all the more chance of further livery options in the future.

[Gwiwer]

If the Kernow boys can get through the floods and debris and reach Warley then you may find the WT's are sold out by Monday. Currently advised on their site as

Pre-production models of this locomotive have been received and checked with the final running sample due very soon. Assuming no problems are found the finished model is due during December 2010.

[Peter Bedding]

Its very promising that 85 per cent of the first batch have sold - all the more chance of further livery options in the future.

 

[Xerces Fobe2]

All Beattie Well we should be receiving our tanks shortly China clay was delivered to Croxley Mills Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

Xerces Fobe

[G-BOAF]

HI Gwiwer

I have had a BTW on order with them for somtime now , i just wish it would have come out in November ,not December my other half would kill me if i get it then!!

I have emailed Kernow asking if they can hold the BTW for me ,untill after christmass ,but have not heard anything back.

All the best

Darren

 

 

With only 5 weeks to go can anyone confirm whether these will be available for Christmas ?

 

Thanks.

 

.

 

 

I've got one of these on order and could also do without it arriving pre-Christmas. Why do new models always arrive when you have the least cash?

 

Latest from KMRC is late december or early jan. I wonder if this continued delay (dropping back from Nov/Dec) means they've modified the chimney; I didn't ask them this...!

 

Getting them out in time for Xmas seems either impossible, or unlikely. Even if late december, getting all of them out must be impossible. Therefore statistically if you order by credit card, you won't be paying until late Jan at the earliest.

HTH

[Jack]

According to the website here they are now appearing in January and the price has been adjusted up accordingly ...

[Rail-Online]

Did anyone apart from me see the Well Tank on the stand at Warley?

I am not sure if this was the latest pre-production sample

 

 

What do you all think?

 

Tony

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I saw the prototypes at Warley Believe they were the last lot show on this thread, still had the odd chimney on the Beattie and a note on the side written Out January (ish) so might or might not be out by then.

[darren01]

HI All

£91.99 boy this loco is going to have to be good for that sort of money:blink:

[Graham_Muz]

I saw the prototypes at Warley Believe they were the last lot show on this thread, still had the odd chimney on the Beattie and a note on the side written Out January (ish) so might or might not be out by then.

 

Yes the models in the display case on the Kernow stand were the same as those pictured in my original post. The next samples, comeplete with working mechannical chassis are still awaited.