Chuffnell Regis

[Gopher]

Does the loco just stall or does your DCC controller shut down (normally indicative of a short circuit) ?  Do you have any method of checking if there is actually current flowing through the whole of the point ?  Is the loco and tender totally clear of the track leading onto the point ?  Reason for asking  - is there  are tender pick ups on the  Mogul.  So if rear of tender is still on preceding (live) track the loco will run until the tender and loco hits a dead section (if all the point is dead).     

[Stubby47]

42 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Have you wired the frog wire in via a switch ?

 

36 minutes ago, Graham T said:

All I've done to the points is to solder a power dropper wire to each of the outer rails at the toe end.

 

Then if the frog wire is still unconnected, the frog is not powered so the loco will stall.

[Graham T]

15 minutes ago, Gopher said:

Does the loco just stall or does your DCC controller shut down (normally indicative of a short circuit) ?  Do you have any method of checking if there is actually current flowing through the whole of the point ?  Is the loco and tender totally clear of the track leading onto the point ?  Reason for asking  - is there  are tender pick ups on the  Mogul.  So if rear of tender is still on preceding (live) track the loco will run until the tender and loco hits a dead section (if all the point is dead).     

 

It's just the loco stalling - the controller stays live.  And the Mogul has tender pick ups as well, according to the manual.

[chuffinghell]

Stupid question!...does the frog wire go through a hole in the baseboard or it is just sat flat under the point?

 

If it is just sat flat under the point it might be shorting on something

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by chuffinghell

[Graham T]

31 minutes ago, outatime said:

If you are using the points just as they come out of the packaging, the whole frog is connected to both switch-blades.

Thus, the powering of the frog and switch-blades only relies on the electrical contact between the switch-blades and the outer rails.

This is ok for dcc, but you can't have any paint in the area where the switch-blades touch the outer rails because it effectively isolates the frog and the switch-blades. That's why your loco is stopping there, all wheels with pickups are on the electrically dead part of the point.

I would try getting the paint off in these areas first, but the "proper" way of wiring the point is shown in the picture above in your post. But if you use it, you need an additional switch to power the frog with either + or -, depending on the direction to which the point is set.

Regards,

Björn

 

Thanks very much Björn, and indeed to everyone else who has answered my plea!  I think I'll start off by taking the path of least resistance (see what I did there?) and cleaning up the contact areas between the outer and the switch rails.  If that fails...

 

... I'll have to call on Bodgeit and Scarper again.

[Stubby47]

Just now, chuffinghell said:

If it is just sat flat under the point it might be shorting on something

 

 

If it's just sat under the point it's not a 'live frog' point...

[chuffinghell]

13 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

If it's just sat under the point it's not a 'live frog' point...

 

Oh I see, I just assumed they worked straight out of the box. Mine had bonding wires that would have powered the frog from rails

 

 

I cut these though and powered the frog from a switch instead

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by chuffinghell

[Graham T]

8 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Stupid question!...does the frog wire go through a hole in the baseboard or it is just sat flat under the point?

 

If it is just sat flat under the point it might be shorting on something

 

 

 

I'm completely exposing my lack of knowledge about all things electrickery now.  Do you mean this wire?

 

 

If so, then yes it's just sitting flat under the point.  And not connected (knowingly) to anything else...

[chuffinghell]

 

this one but it looks like I am wrong and don't want to be responsible for misleading you

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by chuffinghell

[Gopher]

20 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

It's just the loco stalling - the controller stays live.  And the Mogul has tender pick ups as well, according to the manual.

So does the loco and tender sit fully on the point when it stalls ?  It sounds very much to me as if the point is dead  - possibly poor solder connection at the toe, or dirty switch blades not connecting/transferring current.   Do you have a simple tester (I use a led connected to a couple of wires).  I place one wire on each track if led lights - then I know there is power.   

[Gopher]

Just now, Gopher said:

So does the loco and tender sit fully on the point when it stalls ?  It sounds very much to me as if the point is dead  - possibly poor solder connection at the toe, or dirty switch blades not connecting/transferring current.   Do you have a simple tester (I use a led connected to a couple of wires).  I place one wire on each track if led lights - then I know there is power.   

P.S - reading posts above may be a dead frog - in which case you may have to wire the frog to a micro switch - to switch polarity.  

[Graham T]

I've got a circuit tester.  Both outer rails have power, but nothing else

 

[chuffinghell]

Another stupid question!

 

Difficult to see in the photo but have these bonding wires (circled) been cut?

 

 

If they have that is more than likely the problem as you only cut these if you intend to power the frog from a switch

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by chuffinghell

[Alister_G]

18 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I've got a circuit tester.  Both outer rails have power, but nothing else

 

That confirms that the contact between the switch blades and the outer rails isn't working - so first, clean those

 

Al

 

[Graham T]

4 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Another stupid question!

 

Difficult to see in the photo but have these bonding wires (circled) been cut?

 

 

If they have that is more than likely the problem as you only cut these if you intend to power the frog from a switch

 

 

 

No Chris I haven't cut those.  I didn't make any mods at all - just believed Peco when they said it would work with DCC straight out of the box!

[Alister_G]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Then if the frog wire is still unconnected, the frog is not powered so the loco will stall.

 

On an out-of-the-box turnout that's not the case, the frog will be bridged to the switch blades.

 

Al.

[Graham T]

2 minutes ago, Alister_G said:

 

That confirms that the contact between the switch blades and the outer rails isn't working - so first, clean those

 

Al

 

 

Thanks Al.  I'm crossing fingers and everything else that that is the solution...

[Alister_G]

2 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

Thanks Al.  I'm crossing fingers and everything else that that is the solution...

 

Quick way to tell is simply to bridge across between the positive outer rail and the nearest switch blade with a bit of wire or a coin or a screwdriver, and then test with your circuit tester again.

 

If that's the solution, the frog and V rails should show power.

 

 

Al.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Alister_G

[Graham T]

8 minutes ago, Alister_G said:

 

Quick way to tell is simply to bridge across between the positive outer rail and the nearest switch blade with a bit of wire or a coin or a screwdriver, and then test with your circuit tester again.

 

If that's the solution, the frog and V rails should show power.

 

 

Al.

 

 

Brilliant idea - thanks.  And it works!  Only problem now is that the loco derails when it hits the coin   

[MrWolf]

It certainly does, I managed to figure out an electrical problem with my points after similar advice. By bridging out the rails electrically, even the most recalcitrant locos would run smoothly.

[Graham T]

Some good news from Chuffnell Regis, I'm pleased to say!  After a lot of work on cleaning up the faces of the switch rails, the Mogul now runs happily through all the points, even at speed setting 2.  So it looks like I won't have to rip up all the track after all

[Alister_G]

That's great to hear Graham, excellent.

 

Al.

[Graham T]

Thanks for the help Al, very much appreciated!

[Graham T]

Just a bit of fun (but isn't that what this is supposed to be all about?)

 

Sorry about the cr@ppy lighting - that's yet another job on the very long to-do list!

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Graham T

[Graham T]

The man from DPD called this morning, with a delivery of hen's teeth GW cattle wagons, amongst a few other goodies.

 

These are from Dapol; two of them are obviously pre-weathered.  I'm not quite sure what to make of them to be honest.  They're XP marked, so need vacuum pipes fitting.  And the round hole in the upper doors needs drilling out (not sure what it is called).  More of a problem is the drainage slats near the bottom of the wagon sides are filled in - maybe a bit of paintwork will help give the illusion of them being open.  Trying to physically open them up doesn't much appeal...  And I think I'll also need to add horizontal bars across the upper openings, won't I?  That should be relatively easy (ha!) with some plastic rod.

 

 

  

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Graham T