Solar panels

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Graham108 said:

Will you be getting a battery which will store any excess generated for use when it's dark? This option wasn't available when I got mine.

 

No they want £3000 for a set, I cannot go back and see the original quote as the link has changed to the order I agreed on without them, the return on capital was far less, perhaps in the future when technology changes and the price declines it may be worth it. You never know I may grow a beard and wear sandals in the future  

[hayfield]

30 minutes ago, Trainshed Terry said:

I have had solor panels since 2017, I only had room for 6 panels. To get the best from your solor panels, your panels need to be facing south, I am getting a resonable return every 3 months. The funds go towards my pension pot.

 

Terry. 

 

I am nearly dead south facing at the rear,very slightly inclined to the west

[Trainshed Terry]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I am nearly dead south facing at the rear,very slightly inclined to the west

 

Are the solor panels on the rear of your home or on the front.

 

Terry.

[uax6]

I have 4Kw on the roof, and as the installing company cocked up the FIT procedure I got a free battery set for it. We are not great users of elastrictry anyway, but the difference from having the panels to having the panels AND the batteries is like night and day. Without there was only the real benefit of heating the hot water by 'dump' loading via a controller (infact that feature alone saved us vast sums of money, as in summer that was effectively our biggest use of electricity, and it went from being on a timer to being hot most of the daylight hours), but now the battery set extends the day significantly. This even works in winter as the battery set can charge from the mains, and we have economy 7, so that charging is cheap too. It charges to 80% and then its down to the sun to top it up. In winter this lasts to about 4pm, in summer its way past my bed time!

Also you can have a critical supply from the battery invertor, handy for power cuts, it can be wired via a relay to work a lighting ring or fridge, until the batteries fully discharge.

 

The one thing I wasn't best pleased about was the crappy wiring install of the battery set, it was wired on the same trip as the solar invertor, so if the solar was running at over 3kw and then you put the cooker on and drew 4 kw, the battery would supply power and trip the breaker... In the end after getting no joy from the installers (thats the way it should be wired sir... not according to the supplied diagrams it isn't!) I got a proper sparky to re-wire it properly on its own breaker. 

 

Andy G

 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Trainshed Terry said:

 

Are the solor panels on the rear of your home or on the front.

 

Terry.

 

Its the rear roof that faces south, the front roof has 2 hips so faces both north and east and the area of the roof is so much smaller, infact the roof on the ground floor extension is as big if not bigger in usable space

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, uax6 said:

I have 4Kw on the roof, and as the installing company cocked up the FIT procedure I got a free battery set for it. We are not great users of elastrictry anyway, but the difference from having the panels to having the panels AND the batteries is like night and day. Without there was only the real benefit of heating the hot water by 'dump' loading via a controller (infact that feature alone saved us vast sums of money, as in summer that was effectively our biggest use of electricity, and it went from being on a timer to being hot most of the daylight hours), but now the battery set extends the day significantly. This even works in winter as the battery set can charge from the mains, and we have economy 7, so that charging is cheap too. It charges to 80% and then its down to the sun to top it up. In winter this lasts to about 4pm, in summer its way past my bed time!

Also you can have a critical supply from the battery invertor, handy for power cuts, it can be wired via a relay to work a lighting ring or fridge, until the batteries fully discharge.

 

The one thing I wasn't best pleased about was the crappy wiring install of the battery set, it was wired on the same trip as the solar invertor, so if the solar was running at over 3kw and then you put the cooker on and drew 4 kw, the battery would supply power and trip the breaker... In the end after getting no joy from the installers (thats the way it should be wired sir... not according to the supplied diagrams it isn't!) I got a proper sparky to re-wire it properly on its own breaker. 

 

Andy G

 

 

Our central heating is gas and we don't have economy 7, out electrics were bought up to date 4 years ago when the extension was built have 2 fuse boxes each with their own RCD's (the newest box has 2 RCD's making 3 in total)

 

I studied the effect verses the cost of having batteries and the numbers were nowhere as good or worthwhile. However I have paid for a detailed survey and will wait to see exactly what they can offer. Certainly if I can only have 7 panels the cost reduces but the savings are still there, also (certainly certainly in the summer) if we are savvy when we use high energy appliances during daylight hours we will maximise the benefit. We have an electric oven, not hob, washing machine and dishwasher ( used once or twice a week), dont use either a tumble dryer or any form of electric heating and most lights are now LED

 

Still once the ball is rolling I will have a lot more questions to ask, plus will look into both suppliers and buyers of energy

[Ian Morgan]

Hampshire has the same scheme running and I have my quotes. I have signed up to an online Q&A session/presentation on May 11th, and have another 10 days after that to make up my mind.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 27/04/2021 at 11:14, MarkC said:

Well, I'm not impressed with my solar panels, & they've been up some 5 years now. Pay for themselves within 10 years, as promised? No way. Perhaps in 15 if I'm lucky.

 

Mark

I doubt they would pay for themselves that quickly.  The big advantage ours give is not just some electricity but the FIT money is considerably more than the interest would be on the money we spent having the panels installed.  So effectively they are showing a profit but obviously we no longer have the capital we spent on them and I doubt they would recover that in less than 20-25 years.

 

As our south facing roof hip has the waterheating panels on it the electricity geerating panels are on the west facing part of the roof butdesn't make much difference to the amount they geenrate.

[Kris]

I had a significant amount of panels added to my last workplace about 2 years ago. The usage that we were getting out of the panels meant that payback would be achieved quickly through savings in electric costs. The payback from exported power was not gaining much money however and payback just using this would not happen. 

[MarkC]

29 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I doubt they would pay for themselves that quickly.  The big advantage ours give is not just some electricity but the FIT money is considerably more than the interest would be on the money we spent having the panels installed.  So effectively they are showing a profit but obviously we no longer have the capital we spent on them and I doubt they would recover that in less than 20-25 years.

 

As our south facing roof hip has the waterheating panels on it the electricity geerating panels are on the west facing part of the roof butdesn't make much difference to the amount they geenrate.

Exactly so, Mike. Now, had we got the panels on the original FIT tariffs, then yes, I can see 10 years being possibly doable - but we're not. This is why the whole thing is a bit of a minefield.

 

Mark

[hayfield]

To me my money is sitting in a bank not earning very much, this year it looks like I get an 8% return, this will increase as electricity never goes down, life time 25 years x 8 % + 200 % without taking inflation into consideration.

 

The point I am more interested in is its an investment on reducing my future electricity bills. any better ideas? Plus if the house has to be sold its energy rating will be much better than without it

[mezzoman253]

It seems to me the solar power industry has attracted the same cowboys as the double glazing industry did years ago. It's the next pot of gold for them. Yes, there are a few very good people out there, but finding them is difficult. Glossy websites and glowing reviews are easily made, and as a ley person how do you know who's talking BS and who's not. Once installed is seems any form of after market support disappears.

 

Apart from any electrical problems arising from poor installation, solar panel systems can generate severe radio interference if not installed properly by competent fitters, people who actually know what they are doing, not someone who knows a bit about electrics. Screened cabling and ferrites on control wiring should prevent any problems. Choosing the right optimiser is critical to this.

 

I'm not against solar panels per se, but if installed it needs to be done correctly first time, and any faults rectified immediately.

 

Rob

 

 

[burgundy]

6 minutes ago, mezzoman253 said:

It seems to me the solar power industry has attracted the same cowboys as the double glazing industry did years ago. It's the next pot of gold for them. Yes, there are a few very good people out there, but finding them is difficult. Glossy websites and glowing reviews are easily made, and as a ley person how do you know who's talking BS and who's not. Once installed is seems any form of after market support disappears.

 

Rob

 

 

We had solar panels installed 10 years ago when the economics were rather different. Panels themselves were much more expensive and the electricity rate was more generous. However, we did two things right. 

1. 25 years ago, we bought a house with a south facing roof, pitched at just the right angle. 

2. We picked a company which built the price up from the materials and labour. Most of the rest invented a mythical figure for how much we would make in  electricity and then multiplied by 10 to demonstrate that we would recover the cost in 10 years. 

We recovered the cost of the installation in between 6 and 7 years and our supplier is still in business offering a range of sustainable energy options. However, I am afraid that Billericay is probably outside their area!

Best wishes 

Eric     

[The Stationmaster]

18 minutes ago, mezzoman253 said:

It seems to me the solar power industry has attracted the same cowboys as the double glazing industry did years ago. It's the next pot of gold for them. Yes, there are a few very good people out there, but finding them is difficult. Glossy websites and glowing reviews are easily made, and as a ley person how do you know who's talking BS and who's not. Once installed is seems any form of after market support disappears.

 

Apart from any electrical problems arising from poor installation, solar panel systems can generate severe radio interference if not installed properly by competent fitters, people who actually know what they are doing, not someone who knows a bit about electrics. Screened cabling and ferrites on control wiring should prevent any problems. Choosing the right optimiser is critical to this.

 

I'm not against solar panels per se, but if installed it needs to be done correctly first time, and any faults rectified immediately.

 

Rob

 

 

The big con which has not been around for a few months is teh growth in cold callers offering to upgrade your inverter (and install a battery in some cases) because - according to them - your existing inverter is the wrong technology.  I reached a fairly simple way of dealing with these exports from Dallas (elsewhere in any country which has cowboys is equally acceptable) - having heard the first line or so of their patter I would say 'Ah, you're number 21'.  this would of course prompt them to say  '21 what?' to which I'd reply - the 21st bunch that have called to sell me something like this'.  The most recent call - some while back - was actually the 22nd.  Odd to relate they didn't seem to appreciate being given a number.

[kevinlms]

At least you're getting roof mounted solar and not trying to generate electricity by putting the panels in horizontally (roads, footpaths etc), like apparently some councils around the world are!

 

 

[jonny777]

That is purely a small pilot scheme in order to test out the efficiency (or not) of the idea/latest technology. 

 

 

[Vistisen]

On 27/04/2021 at 19:59, Nick C said:

Not a problem any more:

 

https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2017-news/brigade-trials-light-blocking-solution-for-solar-panel-fires/

It's only on trial. The problem is still a reality. From your link:

 

After each use of PVStop the Brigade’s fire crews will be provide feedback. If it proves effective and practical for operational use, the Brigade will be looking to include it as a permanent firefighting resource. 

 

but it is a good idea

 

[AndyID]

We had the option of "owning" part of a solar farm operated by our local electricity co-op. A pretty good idea really but we opted not to do it as it was fairly unlikely we would see a return on the investment in our life-times but that's mainly because electricity is relatively inexpensive here. It would likely be a different story in other parts of the World/country.

[PatB]

The UK prices quoted are interesting. 3 years ago we had an 8.8 kW system installed (basically the whole NW facing roof of the house) for an out of pocket cost of, IIRC, AUD4800 once state and federal government subsidies were factored in. A rough, back of an envelope calculation says it will have paid for itself by next June (ie 4 years from installation). We are a net exporter of electricity to the grid. 

 

We aren't necessarily representative on this thread though. Obvious differences are our location 3/4 of a mile from the surface of the sun ((c) Dylan Moran), our large and intensively used electric kiln, and a continuing obsession with checking the inverter output before switching anything on to try to take maximum advantage of our own generation vs selling it back to the power company for a pittance vs having to buy it back for 4x what we got for it.

 

I've been very impressed with the output of the system. In spite of not being optimally orientated I've seen 8+kW on the inverter display on particularly sunny days. Total generation has averaged about 25 kWh/day over the time it's been running. If it wasn't for the kiln, Western Power would be paying us every month. 

[hayfield]

I listened to a Webinar (live web presentation) from the installing company and the Solar Together commissioning company last night. It was both interesting and informative

 

The business partnership with Essex CC, Solar Together pre-vets the installing companies for both quality and price and sets up an insurance backed insurance scheme to guarantee all warranties and repair work during the warranty period, Then by grouping interested parties together it puts the contracts out to tender, this obtains economies of scale resulting in discounts of up to 37%

 

Whilst I have been sold already on the savings the panels will give, the presentation and questioning after confirmed my decision. I had already paid my deposit and await the results of the initial remote survey and home visit from a surveyor, this is not the first partnership with Essex CC and Essex CC seemed happy with the results from the earlier collaboration. Two more schemes are planned for later in the year

[Chris hndrsn]

On 01/05/2021 at 15:41, PatB said:

In spite of not being optimally orientated I've seen 8+kW on the inverter display on particularly sunny days. Total generation has averaged about 25 kWh/day over the time it's been running. If it wasn't for the kiln, Western Power would be paying us every month. 

I suspect NW would be great for you.

 

Too many people think the panels MUST be orientated South or North only, furthermore rooftop solar installers rarely take into account the distance from the Equator (ie: sun angle) for peak efficiency.  I read a few years ago that in California a lot of initial installations were orientated South/East and there was a drop in solar power feeding back into the network in the afternoons with peak demand during air-conditioning.  The solution was requiring more West facing panels.

 

I have had my 5Kw system for eight years, it faces ENE and paid itself off in six years. During summer it often produces 30+Kw a day, so about 15-20Kw to the grid at 6c (3p) per Kw.

 

When I extend it, I will place about 3Kw facing NNW and 2Kw WSW for the late afternoon sunlight.  If I was in a daylight saving region, more Southerly (or Northerly in the case of the UK) latitude, I would put more facing West.  Batteries at this point aren't viable for me, as the lithium batteries would need to be replaced after about eight years 

[PatB]

12 hours ago, Chris hndrsn said:

I suspect NW would be great for you.

 

Too many people think the panels MUST be orientated South or North only, furthermore rooftop solar installers rarely take into account the distance from the Equator (ie: sun angle) for peak efficiency.  I read a few years ago that in California a lot of initial installations were orientated South/East and there was a drop in solar power feeding back into the network in the afternoons with peak demand during air-conditioning.  The solution was requiring more West facing panels.

 

I have had my 5Kw system for eight years, it faces ENE and paid itself off in six years. During summer it often produces 30+Kw a day, so about 15-20Kw to the grid at 6c (3p) per Kw.

 

When I extend it, I will place about 3Kw facing NNW and 2Kw WSW for the late afternoon sunlight.  If I was in a daylight saving region, more Southerly (or Northerly in the case of the UK) latitude, I would put more facing West.  Batteries at this point aren't viable for me, as the lithium batteries would need to be replaced after about eight years 

Under ideal circumstances I'd agree on the orientation, but we've got a couple of big trees immediately to the west, which give some shading in the afternoon. Not a disastrous amount, but enough to make output drop noticeably after lunchtime. As I can neither afford, nor wish to have them taken down I accept the limitation. The installation still generates about 5x more energy than we can directly use. Battery storage, and lots of it, would make sense, but I can't afford that yet either. When prices come down a bit and my superannuation becomes available it'll be something I seriously consider. 

[hayfield]

We had our inspection earlier today and now are waiting for a formal quotation after the survey.

 

The down side is that the main roof can only fit 4 panels, however using the extension roof we can get an extra 8 panels, do we go for 8, 10 or 12. Just waiting for a final figure  once the scaffolding is taken into consideration, The one question is do we go for extra panels which will generate more electricity than we require ? the other limit is the cap on exporting energy

 

I will let you know what I find out

[hayfield]

On 27/04/2021 at 12:09, MarkC said:

Hi John

 

As I say, 15 years <may> just happen, IF we get some decent clear weather for long periods of time.

 

Still, at least I actually authorised installation, unlike someone I know who told the salesman that he wasn't interested. 3 weeks later, he came home from work at lunchtime one day, to find scaffolding up around his house & solar panels about to be fitted to his roof. He had to get the police involved to get the installers to stop, and spent the next 6 months arguing with the solar company, who were demanding he pay for the work done - the scaffolding - and were going to sue him for breach of contract! They finally backed off when he counter-claimed against them & demanded they show him a signed contract, which, of course, they couldn't...

 

Too many cowboys about 

 

Mark

 

Mark

 

I understand that with all sales based items you have to be careful, the system we use is sponsored by Essex CC with a commissioning company. The commissioning company sets the standards of the quotations, then checks out the installation companies out prior to operating a bidding process. In my case this has resulted in a large discounted price being obtained along with an insurance backed installation. Previous schemes have been run by Essex CC and more are planned. Hopefully using this method is beneficial to all concerned as economies of scale can be obtained and standards checked

[hayfield]

On 27/04/2021 at 12:13, Tony_S said:

We live in Essex too and have paid the deposit. I will now see what happens. First step is a remote roof survey! 

 Tony 

 

How did you get on ?

Edited July 9, 2021 by hayfield