New structure for British railways

[uax6]

8 hours ago, Titan said:

 

From what I have heard on the grapevine Network Rail has been compelled to offer the voluntary severance to everybody, and to refuse no-one no matter what their position until the quota is met. Unfortunately as there is a national shortage of certain engineers, so many are accepting and immediately starting new jobs, no doubt with a pay increase to boot and are laughing all the way to the bank.  Meanwhile Network rail are now having to draft in engineers on contract or secondment from other companies to cover the shortfall in key positions...

 

Operations (at signalbox level at least) are barred from applying, as presumably they realise that in certain areas they would struggle to run trains....

 

Andy G

[corneliuslundie]

"Meanwhile Network rail are now having to draft in engineers on contract or secondment from other companies to cover the shortfall in key positions..."

At considerable extra cost probably.

But no doubt the bean counters are happy and they can blame someone else for the increased costs.

Jonathan

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Operations (at signalbox level at least) are barred from applying, as presumably they realise that in certain areas they would struggle to run trains....

 

Andy G

Ironic that the very group that NR has a long established policy of minimising suddenly prove to be indispensable....

 

I wonder how much they will be getting as a loyalty bonus.

 

John

[uax6]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

Ironic that the very group that NR has a long established policy of minimising suddenly prove to be indispensable....

 

I wonder how much they will be getting as a loyalty bonus.

 

John

 

I'm guessing it will be along the lines of our recent pay rise...0%, infact I'm surprised they haven't asked us to pay them a retainer...

 

Andy G

[APOLLO]

12 hours ago, Titan said:

 

From what I have heard on the grapevine Network Rail has been compelled to offer the voluntary severance to everybody, and to refuse no-one no matter what their position until the quota is met. Unfortunately as there is a national shortage of certain engineers, so many are accepting and immediately starting new jobs, no doubt with a pay increase to boot and are laughing all the way to the bank.  Meanwhile Network rail are now having to draft in engineers on contract or secondment from other companies to cover the shortfall in key positions...

 

Exactly what happened when the National Grid "Merged" with Transco. 5000 have to go and everyone will get their figures.

 

I got mine and went, like a bat out of hell !!!!

 

Brit15

[Wheatley]

Despite the lack of a visible plan (the fear being that there is an invisible one which makes Serpell A look progressive) they have at least learned that lesson.

 

In 1997 MTL took over the RRNE franchise, announced 40% redundancies across the board with a very generous (BRB funded ?) redundancy package and then wondered where all the drivers had gone. Then they cocked up their stock market flotation, went spectaculary bust and left Arriva to sort out the mess. 

[caradoc]

16 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

Much the same as BR then. I worked for BR for c.20 years, up to privatisation, and in that time, was displaced 6 times, each during one of the myriad reorganisations.

 

During my time in Control under BR there was barely a year without a reorganisation, ie job cuts, and in one I was reorganised out of the office to a job I did not want, to a location where I did not want to work, and had to move house to a place I did not want to live; And this after being issued with a redundancy notice. Despite the trauma of the Railtrack/Network Rail years they at least never threatened to sack me, which is why I think 'be careful what you wish for' whenever I see the calls for renationalisation. 

 

But I agree, the new logo is horrible ! 

 

[Gwiwer]

15 hours ago, Titan said:

Meanwhile Network rail are now having to draft in engineers on contract or secondment from other companies to cover the shortfall in key positions...

I offer the case of the "Christmas" shutdown at London Victoria which, with the understanding that Covid-induced staffing issues were also in play, dragged on for weeks beyond when it was supposed to have finished.  The full train service is still not running.  Southern suggest this is because they have drivers absent with Covid but they are managing to run their trains to London Bridge instead ..... and those trains need drivers.  NR took three weeks to dig and backfill a trench at Clapham Junction which they assured us would be done on three days.  Southern aren't fooling anyone any more with their "driver shortage" bleating.  

 

6 hours ago, uax6 said:

Operations (at signalbox level at least) are barred from applying, as presumably they realise that in certain areas they would struggle to run trains....

Signallers, drivers and ROC staff will not be considered, we are told.  Some of those are NR, not TOC, staff.  Guards and station staff may apply.  No station staff has been successful that I am aware of.   There are almost always vacancies for guards somewhere on our network. Which brings us back to the "20% reduction" we are still told has to take place.  From where, exactly, if we cannot shed drivers and everyone else is declined?  

[corneliuslundie]

How about management? You could probably cut many organisations by 20% by getting rid of the HR department (Oh, I forgot, we shall have to employ extra people to handle those redundancies)

Jonathan

[phil-b259]

6 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Operations (at signalbox level at least) are barred from applying, as presumably they realise that in certain areas they would struggle to run trains....

 

Andy G

 

I have heard on the grapevine that operations are protected / won't be touched. Its maintenance folks that are in the sights for a right going over!

 

Its often been the case that maintenance is the least valued section of the railway - no sexy PR friendly stuff to show off and something where the effects of underinvestment take ages to have an impact.

 

I know several of my maintenance colleagues are looking / have jumped shipped to signallers, electrical control or MOMs jobs seeing them as a safer bet (leaving unfulfillable holes behind).

 

I also expect that NR / GBR will do what Govia did during the Southern dispute (bung the drivers a load of cash while trying to smash the Guards to bits).

 

I can only hope the signallers aren't so easily bribed - cause in truth the maintenance section needs their help for any industrial action to be effective.

 

I'm more convinced than ever its only a matter of time before we get another Potters Bar, Hatfield or Clapham Junction smash - the looming reorganisation, the recruitment freeze and the ban on working with lookouts are bringing the maintenance section to its knees with no prospect of things getting better!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

21 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

I offer the case of the "Christmas" shutdown at London Victoria which, with the understanding that Covid-induced staffing issues were also in play, dragged on for weeks beyond when it was supposed to have finished.  The full train service is still not running.  Southern suggest this is because they have drivers absent with Covid but they are managing to run their trains to London Bridge instead ..... and those trains need drivers.  NR took three weeks to dig and backfill a trench at Clapham Junction which they assured us would be done on three days.  Southern aren't fooling anyone any more with their "driver shortage" bleating.  

 

Signallers, drivers and ROC staff will not be considered, we are told.  Some of those are NR, not TOC, staff.  Guards and station staff may apply.  No station staff has been successful that I am aware of.   There are almost always vacancies for guards somewhere on our network. Which brings us back to the "20% reduction" we are still told has to take place.  From where, exactly, if we cannot shed drivers and everyone else is declined?  

 

Hardly a surprise to me.

 

When you are running on bare bones staffing its what happens. The maintenance section is on its knees with no relief in sight.

 

Of course even what NR has now is 'too many' as far as the been counters / right wing policy makers in Whitehall are concerned....

Edited February 12, 2022 by phil-b259

[caradoc]

20 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

I offer the case of the "Christmas" shutdown at London Victoria which, with the understanding that Covid-induced staffing issues were also in play, dragged on for weeks beyond when it was supposed to have finished.  The full train service is still not running.  Southern suggest this is because they have drivers absent with Covid but they are managing to run their trains to London Bridge instead ..... and those trains need drivers.  

 

So was the lack of trains at Victoria caused by a possession overrun, rather than the Driver shortage reported by Southern ? Apart from anything else, why would a TOC blame themselves for something caused by another body ? It may well be that NR took the opportunity to carry out additional work while there were no trains, but from what I have read elsewhere the engineering work did not cause the issues at Victoria, and there are very good practical reasons why Southern are able to maintain services to London Bridge. 

 

[Ncarter2]

16 hours ago, Titan said:

 

From what I have heard on the grapevine Network Rail has been compelled to offer the voluntary severance to everybody, and to refuse no-one no matter what their position until the quota is met. Unfortunately as there is a national shortage of certain engineers, so many are accepting and immediately starting new jobs, no doubt with a pay increase to boot and are laughing all the way to the bank.  Meanwhile Network rail are now having to draft in engineers on contract or secondment from other companies to cover the shortfall in key positions...

 Not totally true. The team I am part of was not part of the VS offered. Also, they are not accepting all submissions, there are colleagues that have been refused, most being a couple of years from retirement, with no reason given. Each Region seems to have a different approach. 

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

there are very good practical reasons why Southern are able to maintain services to London Bridge. 

Common sense and railways have often not been comfortable bedfellows. 
 

What might be “good practical reasons” is causing woeful overcrowding and major inconveience to Southern’s customers and is demoralising and frustrating staff. 
 

First there was the short-notice extension to the shut-down.  Then the very minimal service allegedly because only a few platforms at Victoria could be used. The fast lines through Clapham Junction could not be used because a trench had been dug for new signalling cables along the down platform which was then left open for days. This much was, we were told, due to no available staff to complete the work

 

When trains did return they were shuttles to East Croydon only. Most Metro services start and finish at Balham. 
 

The results are serious overcrowding of those trains which do run to Victoria, having only two “through” lines through Balham further limits the service which can be offered, all including fast trains must stop at Streatham Common for interchange purposes because Balham is not step-free, East Croydon suffers major congestion as passengers change trains and platforms, Clapham Junction suffers serious congestion as the reduced number of trains disgorges hundreds of people onto narrow platforms which cannot be cleared quickly and which also causes safety issues for SWR’s down suburban services across the platform. Schools traffic is not catered for; several early morning trains which survived all previous timetable cuts because they are used by hundreds of children no longer run. Some early morning up services start too late for some people to reach work - including staff colleagues. 
 

It takes the same number (maybe give or take one or two) of drivers to provide the London Bridge service as it would a full Victoria service.  Numbers travelling now are placing a huge burden upon the interchange points. And if you do get to London Bridge there is no Northern Line tube service from there until May due to completely unrelated TfL works. As those were advertised months in advance Southern might well have southt to divert services from there to Victoria rather than the other way around. 
 

 

[Wheatley]

38 minutes ago, Ncarter2 said:

 Not totally true. The team I am part of was not part of the VS offered. Also, they are not accepting all submissions, there are colleagues that have been refused, most being a couple of years from retirement, with no reason given. Each Region seems to have a different approach. 

No point offering people cash to go if they're going to leave of their own accord in a couple of years anyway. Previous VS schemes have made that obvious, the amount on offer declined rapidly after about 60, but that's now illegal under discrimination law. So now you just offer it and decline their application. 

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I also expect that NR / GBR will do what Govia did during the Southern dispute (bung the drivers a load of cash while trying to smash the Guards to bits).

On what little has emerged so far train crew will still work for the privatised service providers. 

 

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

How about management? 

Also mostly declined here. 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

How about management? You could probably cut many organisations by 20% by getting rid of the HR department (Oh, I forgot, we shall have to employ extra people to handle those redundancies)

Jonathan

An awful lot of supervisory and managerial jobs went in the early post-privytisation era although i wouldn't be in the least surprised if  a lot of new management posts have appeared in more recent years.  And I'm left with the impression that some of them are a lot more highly remunerated than used to be the case.

[Mike Storey]

43 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

An awful lot of supervisory and managerial jobs went in the early post-privytisation era although i wouldn't be in the least surprised if  a lot of new management posts have appeared in more recent years.  And I'm left with the impression that some of them are a lot more highly remunerated than used to be the case.

 

Quite probably true. In one article I read, the CEO of NR stated that the number of management-graded staff posts (within NR) is currently greater than before the pandemic! He wants to get the numbers back down to at least the previous level.

 

However, I think it has been mentioned on here, and stated elsewhere (by Cortes, the head of the TSSA) that many of those roles are "promoted" Professional and Technical" staff, who, one must assume, are largely still needed.

 

Tricky.

[Ncarter2]

30 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Quite probably true. In one article I read, the CEO of NR stated that the number of management-graded staff posts (within NR) is currently greater than before the pandemic! He wants to get the numbers back down to at least the previous level.

 

However, I think it has been mentioned on here, and stated elsewhere (by Cortes, the head of the TSSA) that many of those roles are "promoted" Professional and Technical" staff, who, one must assume, are largely still needed.

 

Tricky.

NR has gone full circle and is now a ‘top heavy’ organisation again. The amount of management positions or senior leader roles created over the last few years, who have no staff sat under them just shows the mentality. I fully agree there needs to be a shake up, it’s just a shame it’s not with the right groups of people who offer little to no benefit. 
Sadly, reality is, these people will keep their jobs, their six figure salaries, a hefty bonus, while those who actually make a difference and keep the railway operating will be decimated once again, have much greater pressures weighted against them and when, because it is a matter of when, we have the next major disaster, these staff will be blamed, hauled through the ringer and spat out like they never existed. The senior leaders don’t have a clue. As long as they get their pay check. 
As for the CEO, not one of them is in the role long enough to make a difference or do any thing worthwhile. I’d go so far as to say they are government puppets, appointed to deliver the next set of goals. 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Ncarter2 said:

NR has gone full circle and is now a ‘top heavy’ organisation again. The amount of management positions or senior leader roles created over the last few years, who have no staff sat under them just shows the mentality. I fully agree there needs to be a shake up, it’s just a shame it’s not with the right groups of people who offer little to no benefit. 
Sadly, reality is, these people will keep their jobs, their six figure salaries, a hefty bonus, while those who actually make a difference and keep the railway operating will be decimated once again, have much greater pressures weighted against them and when, because it is a matter of when, we have the next major disaster, these staff will be blamed, hauled through the ringer and spat out like they never existed. The senior leaders don’t have a clue. As long as they get their pay check. 
As for the CEO, not one of them is in the role long enough to make a difference or do any thing worthwhile. I’d go so far as to say they are government puppets, appointed to deliver the next set of goals. 

 

Depressing isn't it?

 

[Ncarter2]

9 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Depressing isn't it?

 

Very! 

But they are a people company and it’s a job for life, well that’s what is preached. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ncarter2

[Pandora]

Great British Railways Headquarters.

October 2021 announcement of a public competition to select a location for the HQ of GBR

Applicants can be:

 

District councils 

Borough councils 

City councils 

Unitary authorities

Metropolitan boroughs 

County councils 

Mayoral and non-mayoral combined authorities 

Welsh counties or county boroughs

Scottish unitary authorities

 

 

see link

 

https://gbrtt.co.uk/hq/

 

As a levelling up measure, London is excluded.

What will lhappen to the current HQ premises of Network rail?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Pandora

[Wheatley]

26 minutes ago, Pandora said:

What will happen to the current HQ premises of Network rail?

Eversholt Street might be its Head Office but the majority of its support staff are in Milton Keynes or the regions (whatever the regions are called this week).

 

[great central]

18 hours ago, Ncarter2 said:

NR has gone full circle and is now a ‘top heavy’ organisation again. The amount of management positions or senior leader roles created over the last few years, who have no staff sat under them just shows the mentality. I fully agree there needs to be a shake up, it’s just a shame it’s not with the right groups of people who offer little to no benefit. 
Sadly, reality is, these people will keep their jobs, their six figure salaries, a hefty bonus, while those who actually make a difference and keep the railway operating will be decimated once again, have much greater pressures weighted against them and when, because it is a matter of when, we have the next major disaster, these staff will be blamed, hauled through the ringer and spat out like they never existed. The senior leaders don’t have a clue. As long as they get their pay check. 
As for the CEO, not one of them is in the role long enough to make a difference or do any thing worthwhile. I’d go so far as to say they are government puppets, appointed to deliver the next set of goals. 

 

Very much the same in the TOCs, always new appointments to non-productive roles. It amazes me that the job carries on over weekends when these people are in the pub/sunning themselves in their gardens (subject to the weather if course) 

 

[caradoc]

21 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Then the very minimal service allegedly because only a few platforms at Victoria could be used.

 

21 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

When trains did return they were shuttles to East Croydon only. Most Metro services start and finish at Balham. 

 

From what I have read elsewhere the lack of trains to Victoria was nothing to do with any engineering work, but because Southern did not have enough Drivers to provide anything like the full service, and not enough resources to plan a reliable reduced service, therefore the diversions to London Bridge for the planned closure at Victoria had to be kept in operation. As more Drivers became available a limited service to Victoria was reinstated. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

In one article I read, the CEO of NR stated that the number of management-graded staff posts (within NR) is currently greater than before the pandemic!

 

19 hours ago, Ncarter2 said:

The amount of management positions or senior leader roles created over the last few years, who have no staff sat under them just shows the mentality.

 

Management-graded staff are not necessarily managers in the accepted sense of the word. I was once reorganised out of my job because it was regraded from the Supervisory to the Management structure - That was by BR in 1987. So by privatisation in 1994 the number of Management Grade staff in my office was considerably greater than when I started there in 1984. Nothing new under the sun. 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

28 minutes ago, great central said:

 

Very much the same in the TOCs, always new appointments to non-productive roles. It amazes me that the job carries on over weekends when these people are in the pub/sunning themselves in their gardens (subject to the weather if course) 

 

One of my Drivers used to love telling Divisional management people that every time he drove past Reading at weekends almost all the lights were out in Western Tower - the Divisional HQ (the Control Office lights were on).

 

9 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

 

Management-graded staff are not necessarily managers in the accepted sense of the word. I was once reorganised out of my job because it was regraded from the Supervisory to the Management structure - That was by BR in 1987. So by privatisation in 1994 the number of Management Grade staff in my office was considerably greater than when I started there in 1984. Nothing new under the sun. 

 

Grade drift - invariably upwards - went on for years and job evaluation was introduced with the intention of stopping it.  But there were ways of fiddling evaluation if all members of the panel agreed and the practice of awarding people personal upgradings also still seemed to happen occasionally (presumably if they knew where the bodies were buried??).  

 

There was also the different matter of personal salaries where although within the range for the grade people sometimes got more than the usual basic salary increase figure on going into a higher grade or if coming in from outside.  But I can't complain about that because on one occasion I benefitted from it because of the amount of money I would otherwise have lost when I went from MS4 to MS5 - but while it meant that I didn't lose much money it also meant that I didn't make out of promotion either!