Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[MrWolf]

On 01/05/2024 at 07:00, NHY 581 said:

Tidy. 

 

Bostin, even!

[Thorness]

You can remove the back legs of rail built buffer stops to save space:

 

Cheers

Don

[Mikkel]

On 02/05/2024 at 03:28, Schooner said:

1900s GWR BLT - 4 wheel coaches, 3 plank wagons

 

And 4-plankers. If it's GWR 1900s you'll need 4-plankers. Though I know that's very modern for you 🙂

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

And 4-plankers. If it's GWR 1900s you'll need 4-plankers. Though I know that's very modern for you 🙂

 

yes, in this scenario the 4-plankers become your reds, and can be so.

[Schooner]

I know, I know...but http://www.gwr.org.uk/dr3d-models.html ! I love all the same-same-but-different...and with the new-fangle go-faster square ends! But si, 4-planks should be in the majority. Stock aside, do we see any howlers with the trackplan? All hypothetical for the foreseeable, mind.

 

Thanks all for the input re bufferstops. Largely through familiarity, I had in mind something along the lines of the wooden NLR stops. There will be better pics out there, but eg

When I'm back in the real world I'll have a close looks at the Fremington photos and see if I can find something a little more local. 

[drduncan]

On 02/05/2024 at 02:28, Schooner said:

Not that I'm all that fussy, but...

...just in case anyone wondered :)

 

I do, but with no real intent. The recently announced 517 has got me back to thinking of a 4mm BLT, but that would still be tabletop*. I just like the idea of a few of my little layouts linked around one system. I tend towards c. 6' scenes (a natural 120 degree viewing angle from a comfy central seated operating position) anyway, regardless of how big a layout may be overall, so all that changes is convenience/coherence of 'offscene' moves!

 

 

 Thank ewe.

 

You make a very valid point, but I don't think I can afford to loose that space - visually as much as in terms of siding capacity, so whilst

I shan't be doing exactly this in 7mm - it was plenty tricky to do on Code 75 - I think it shows where I stand on subject proper rail-built bufferstops. And

wot she sed.

 

Agreed! See @JimC's typically informative write-up and some useful pics here. From which

 

 

a great demo of why I keep banging on about the importance of setting for small layouts. It doesn't matter how clever your trackwork is if the stock swamps it - you get so much more out of a space by going small (and so, often, going early!), I wish more was made of it as a layout design factor.

 

This is now a thing, and shall be played. Rules to be codified here in the near future!

 

Right, where're we to...ah, yes, today:

I fear I misunderstood the position, purpose and...well...size of East Budleigh's goods shed. Pics and plans here http://disused-stations.org.uk/e/east_budleigh/

 

However, something in that orientation may work rather well. The current plan is for there to be a warehouse/transit shed to hide the edge of the board, aligned with the tracks, with a lean-to style loading bay extension, thus:

bolted to the side.

 

The inspiration comes from Bideford, Fremington having nothing suitable:

with the lean-to taking the place of the canopy at the far end. Speaking of ends, other one looks like this:

Which is rather fine. Or was, as it's all be knocked down for flats now. 

 

Clearances are tight on the LSWR van...but an inch is as good as a mile sometimes.

 

Sadly the van took an absolute clattering in the course of being delivered, one end of the box being totally crushed. The vehicle escaped remarkably lightly, with only one buffer ripped out (replaced, visuals are fine) and this damage to the roof:

 

I suspect I'll just glue it, but had be toying with the idea of covering the roof with tissue soaked in dilute PVA to add a little texture and better represent canvas. Happily, I've utterly destroyed the Siphon roof

Which has snapped and been 'fixed' (YMMV) upwards of ten times. It needs all the help it can get, and so I was in the fortunate position of having a test subject to hand.

 

Mid process...

 

...and end process not shown cos I didn't get a pic, but in general I think it's a success. Certainly doesn't look any worse! I'll probably still end up making a new roof for the Siphon, but that's future-me's problem :)

 

Thanks for popping by!

 

 

*With nobs on. Still very rough, and feedback would be most welcome, but it currently looks like

that.

 

Removeable cassette connection lower left, as per, RHS masked to the operator somehow but open for views through/between the sheds. Pretty gentle turnout geometry, loop curve between settrack R3 and R4. 1900s GWR BLT - 4 wheel coaches, 3 plank wagons - with nominal arrival and departure platforms. Suspect in 'reality' it'd be one platform only (upper) in regular use, the other being used for parcels, coaching storage etc most of the day/year. Anyhoo...!

Truncate the spare platform back into the resin shed and put the cattle dock on it a la Ashburton and have an end loading dock there too. Lose the kick back off the kick back as the Shunting will drive you mad.

 

To critique it further what’s the back story and expected traffic. Lots of coal, but what’s the loading back for because it’s rather big!

 

Duncan

Edited May 5 by drduncan
Appalling typos!

[drduncan]

Back from playground (with my own children before the uncharitable wade in) so more considered thoughts.

 

Looking at your GWR BLT, the area below the mileage siding and to the right of the coal yard is crying out for a wharf front and some small lovely west country schooners on the coasting trade bringing coal and timber in (you'll need a yard or wharf crane or shear legs for the timber traffic or rely on the schooners own rigs to shift bulk cargo, but that's not going to be news to you).  You could put the right hand siding (or even both)  off the wagon TT on a detached mole(s) with a timber trestle from it/them to the wharf proper a la Newquay Harbour.

China clay out if Cornwall or if in the 1870s/1880s you could also have tin/copper/lead out too depending on your location. If you wanted it on the Severn estuary somewhere it could be coal out from either the Somerset of Forrest of Dean coalfields - more options for a variety of early minerals this way. Other traffic possible out:

• Cattle (you have a cattle dock - ABS W2 small cattle wagons (and if anyone can find a half decent photo of the W2's big brother the undiagrammed large o/s/f cattle wagon I'll CAD that)
• Fish. Depending on date a variety of siphons and tadpoles. Post 1892 you have the option of all the ex BG conversions such as the S7 - if only someone did a 3d print of this hard to model prototype, oh wait...
• Milk - another excuse for 4w and early 6w siphons, if you need one - and passenger rated head/tail track adds operational variety.
• The end loading dock gives you options for agricultural and other machinery in or out, plus NPCS carriage trucks and horseboxes for the squire.

Finally, are you really sure you don't want to do this as Broad Gauge because it would be simply wonderful and a show stopper given the standard you achieve.

 

You will, of course, have to join the GW Study Group...and start nightly prayers to William Dean and George Jackson Churchward and recite the following catechism in times of trial:

   Brunel, Gooch, Armstrong, Dean and Churchward are my shepherds; I shall not want for prototype inspiration. 

   They maketh me appreciate dark green locos: they leadeth me beside bucolic branch lines and properly engineered main lines.

   They restoreth my soul: they leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for their name's sake.

   Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no so called Premier Line nor South Western heresy, for they art with me; their connecting rods and the DC brake gear, they comfort me.

   They preparest a table before me in the presence of mine Midland enemies: they anointest my head with engine oil; my cup runneth over.

   Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in Swindon A shop for ever.

 

Regards,

 

Duncan

 

 

Edited May 5 by drduncan

[WFPettigrew]

17 minutes ago, drduncan said:

catechism

Not sure which bit of this I enjoyed the most!   The omission of Collett and Hawksworth? 

 

And yes, waiting for the broad gauge epiphany! 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

[drduncan]

14 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Not sure which bit of this I enjoyed the most!   The omission of Collett and Hawksworth? 

 

And yes, waiting for the broad gauge epiphany! 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

I felt a bit guilty leaving off Collett; Castles, Kings and Halls and all that. Hawksworth not so much...

D

[Annie]

4 hours ago, WFPettigrew said:

The omission of Collett and Hawksworth? 

Who are they?

[drduncan]

5 hours ago, drduncan said:

I felt a bit guilty leaving off Collett; Castles, Kings and Halls and all that. Hawksworth not so much...

D

If I’d thought a bit more it could have been the ‘Collett’ of the day.

D

[Annie]

13 hours ago, drduncan said:

are you really sure you don't want to do this as Broad Gauge

I've frowned over doing Watchet so many times.  I've got a digital Minehead branch project I've been working on for ages, but Watchet just plain frightens me off every time I look at it.

 

[Schooner]

On 05/05/2024 at 11:49, drduncan said:

Finally, are you really sure you don't want to do this as Broad Gauge because it would be simply wonderful and a show stopper given the standard you achieve.

 

 

I should have a day or two with planning software coming up, so I'll bite :) Go on then, what do I need to allow by way of clearances and curvature if modelling Western broad gauge in 4mm?

 

All valid and interesting points, moving the scheme further from a generic playground for the Dapol 517 (and 850, when some RTR manufacturer sees the light, which they inevitably will*)...but closer to my happy place. Will re-read, mark, and inwardly digest. 

 

Still got two layouts to finish as it is!

 

*'tho if it's Hornby I'm gonna cry**

**but not for long, as it's odds-on that an announcement from Margate means another, better, manufacturer has one on the way :)

[Schooner]

On 05/05/2024 at 12:27, drduncan said:

I felt a bit guilty leaving off Collett

 

Don't :)

 

Saints and Stars. All else is just the 1361 to the CMR 0-6-0Ts.

 

Anyway, Stellas.

 

Who could ask for more?

 

[drduncan]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

 

Don't :)

 

Saints and Stars. All else is just the 1361 to the CMR 0-6-0Ts.

 

Anyway, Stellas.

 

Who could ask for more?

 

And of course, some of these started life as BG convertibles…..

D

[drduncan]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

 

I should have a day or two with planning software coming up, so I'll bite :) Go on then, what do I need to allow by way of clearances and curvature if modelling Western broad gauge in 4mm?

 

All valid and interesting points, moving the scheme further from a generic playground for the Dapol 517 (and 850, when some RTR manufacturer sees the light, which they inevitably will*)...but closer to my happy place. Will re-read, mark, and inwardly digest. 

 

Still got two layouts to finish as it is!

 

*'tho if it's Hornby I'm gonna cry**

**but not for long, as it's odds-on that an announcement from Margate means another, better, manufacturer has one on the way :)

Only if you really want to… a ‘narrow gauge’ GWR BLT under your guidance would be a worth addition to the collective wisdom!

 

Anyway, BG. Normal clearances between track and structures as the sticky out bits still stick out the same distance from the rail head, all other things being equal. On Nampara I used 36” minimum radius for points for the mixed gauge track, which made the BG centre line radius a little bit more. However, I don’t think I got down to 36” due to the track lay down…

There is a mass of standards info here:

http://www.broadgauge.org.uk/modelling/models_standards.html
 

Regards,

 

Duncan

[lezz01]

I have noted that some BG modellers in 4mm use P4 standards due to the closeness of the loco wheel flanges. How true the need to do this is I can't vouch for having not built BG myself. I will say if money and space, not to mention my age wasn't an issue I would have a crack at Gloucester or somewhere around there where there was both BG and SG in close proximity. I'm not really a GWR fan but I do like a bit of BG. I even have some drawings.

Regards Lez.

[drduncan]

42 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

I have noted that some BG modellers in 4mm use P4 standards due to the closeness of the loco wheel flanges. How true the need to do this is I can't vouch for having not built BG myself. I will say if money and space, not to mention my age wasn't an issue I would have a crack at Gloucester or somewhere around there where there was both BG and SG in close proximity. I'm not really a GWR fan but I do like a bit of BG. I even have some drawings.

Regards Lez.

Yes, in 4mm there is a predisposition to P4. However, I’m an EM modeller and use EM standards and so far no problems…

D

[Compound2632]

20 hours ago, drduncan said:

Yes, in 4mm there is a predisposition to P4. However, I’m an EM modeller and use EM standards and so far no problems…

 

To what extent are they interoperable? Unlike standard gauge P4 and EM, the gauge is presumably the same.

[Schooner]

Vicky Quay, 7mm

 

Next LSWR wagon, courtesy of https://www.didcotdesignandprototyping.com/

 

The kit arrived...well, before I did, so that counts as speedy!

 

Kit contents:

'Kit' - yay 3D prints!

 

A little fettling and fairing was required, but no more than an etched kit

In this case making sure the provided sprung buffers could slide freely. Might also give them a drop of lube oil once painted, as the Dapol wagons have very lightly sprung buffers and I suspect these should match to avoid odd shunting performance.

 

Bits added to the body, 5 mins with some gel CA glue. The included centre wheel (flangeless) rotates freely, might be improved further with turned bearings, but we'll see how the wagon runs once the main wheelsets are in (order placed, waiting on delivery from Slaters).

 

The wagon floor is in two parts, neatly laser cut to fit snugly round the inner body ironwork. See also the slots L and R for the single brakes.

 

Pleasing fit between brake blocks and centre tyre. You might just be able to see that the brake lever and guides are not independent, but are printed in such deep relief that I don't think this will be apparent, let alone an issue.

 

Loosely in situ. Currently sat in slowly-drying red primer to give a little more depth to the (presumably?) brown LSWR livery. 

 

In all, an enjoyable build so far of an interesting wagon. The detail is decent and would be easily further improved with 3rd party bits. The parts are well designed, of excellent fit, and make sensible compromises. For £20, I can't imagine a better test 6W/22' vehicle, a nice way to lean into the available siding length.

 

4mm bits to follow...

[drduncan]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To what extent are they interoperable? Unlike standard gauge P4 and EM, the gauge is presumably the same.

It is exactly the same gauge for EM BG and P4 BG. The differences are in wheel profile and the resulting b2b, check and flangeway gauges. That said it should be possible for P4 standard stock to run on my EM BG track (but probably not the other way around) - at least that’s what I’m hoping as a fellow BG’er and I have been talking about a collaborative layout project and he’s P4 and I’m not….

D

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, drduncan said:

at least that’s what I’m hoping as a fellow BG’er and I have been talking about a collaborative layout project and he’s P4 and I’m not….

 

You've seen, I'm sure, that magnificent 'Parlour Railway' with mouthwatering BG and SG GW engines - nothing but straight plain line! 

[Schooner]

Ingleford, 4mm

 

Not much to report, the layout isn't well supported at the moment so I've been wary of doing too much. However, I recently did a bit of a stock take, with an aim to bring all the M&WJR wagons up to a similar level of (non-) completion.

 

So, a bit more fettling, a drop more paint on the general merchandise stock:

...with a fair bit more to do, and then much tidying up. I think I preferred doing the strapping in Sharpie...!

 

Coal merchant's stock:

The two similar wagons (5&9's Parrys) might be the M&WJR's own, or we might be looking at the total fleet of the wharf merchant - likely one Reuben M. Webb.

 

The ballast/stone dropsides were to be in similar livery until about ten mins ago...

...buuuut I've just gone over them in red primer to go under red or brown, with maybe one or two in bare wood if I can pull it off. It was all looking a bit drear on that side of the layout.

 

Still lots to do on them, but getting closer to getting the stock numbered and totem'd up (I feel a little gentle encouragement to @railtec-models might jog memories/inboxes), as previously discussed.

 

Other pottering-type jobs are ongoing, like re-capping the canal wall under the bridge:

and getting previous repairs painted up. I'll have another look for good cast iron columns for the shed (seen above balanced on a track rubber), suggestions most welcome. Failing anything lovely, I'll knock up some semi-permanent ones myself from...erm, stuff :)

[drduncan]

35 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You've seen, I'm sure, that magnificent 'Parlour Railway' with mouthwatering BG and SG GW engines - nothing but straight plain line! 

I certainly have, but I’ve got in mind a glorified scenic circular(ish) test track with a Brunel timber viaduct as part of it. I suppose I should start a thread at some point….

…. and finish Nampara sooner rather than later!

D

Edited May 13 by drduncan

[Schooner]

I think I can concentrate long enough to paint the ironwork of one side and one end of a wagon in a single sitting; a whole wagon a session.

 

This being so

 

I...er...did 'em all.

 

Badly, but done :)