Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Schooner]

7mm - motive power

 

As long-time followers will remember, the 7mm project got kick-started when I proved unable to resist the charms of this little unit:

>1kg of gloriously innacurate but deeply lovely scratch- (said Ellis Clarke) / kit-buit (says RMWeb's hivemind) MR Deeley 0-4-0T, as seen aplenty around Gloucester Docks.

 

Despite having been boxed for almost a year I plugged her in for the first time over Christmas, only to find...

...she ran slowly, smoothly and reliably. Joy refused to be confined and spilled out into the street etc etc etc.

 

Now, I have yet to get a rolling road to make a proper start on investigating her running, but it looks like it might just be aesthetics that need much attention. Woop woop!

 

Anyway, the story continues. O gauge in the offing, I decided I needed to base the project on RTR (for locos at least) to be viable. Gloucester was also tricky to fit onto my c.5'x2' table. A good source of inspiration was found - with much help from you lovely lot - on the LSWR's Fremmington Quay, North Devon

...which was handy, as Dapol's recently released B4 was picking up rave reviews not just for detailing but for running qualities, which are high on my list of priorities.

Oiiideal!

 

I don't have my mitts on it yet, but it's in Kyle's shop awaiting his attention. Much excitment, joy straining at the leash etc ec etc

 

Then yesterday came the news from Hatton's. Not ideal, on any level, for anyone. Anyway, casting about for something to do to help as best I could, I found a little black 1870s 0-6-0T looking all lost and alone and adoptable. As some of you know, I have long held hopes for a little black 1870s 0-6-0T, having a weakness for such things and unable to find/justify one in 4mm*

 

 

and it is not that. 

 

So, question: 

Are there as many body-kits for a Terrier chassis in 7mm as there are in 4mm?!

 

*Although

 

[Northroader]

And another one sees the light..

[Mol_PMB]

10 hours ago, Schooner said:

So, question: 

Are there as many body-kits for a Terrier chassis in 7mm as there are in 4mm?!

Welcome to the fold!

I think the simple answer is no. Until the last decade or so, there were very few RTR 7mm chassis to which body-kits could be fitted, so that cottage industry hasn't developed to the same extent as it did in 00, 009, 0-16.5 etc.

Generally O gauge loco kits are for the whole thing except wheels and motor, so there wouldn't be too much wastage if you were to fit an RTR chassis instead. The challenge is to find a prototype that fits the Terrier chassis (noting in passing that many 4mm scale body-kits were to some extent compromised in dimensions to fit the nearest available chassis dimensions).

Mol

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

And another one sees the light..

 

Indeed, I am very much looking forward to getting stuck in to 7mm - the heft appeals an awful lot. 

 

Then it'll be a case of weighing up big stock ( = good = 7mm) vs a big layout ( = good = 4mm) to settle on a longer-term project...

 

...which looks like it might be 1:64 on 16.5mm track...

 

Worry about that when I get round to it, tho!

 

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Welcome to the fold!

Ta!

 

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Generally O gauge loco kits are for the whole thing except wheels and motor, so there wouldn't be too much wastage if you were to fit an RTR chassis instead.

Bon, thank you - though I note kit prices are correspondingly (and fairly) higher.

 

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

noting in passing that many 4mm scale body-kits were to some extent compromised in dimensions to fit the nearest available chassis dimensions

Quite! Not something which worries me unduly - I maintain a healthy veil of ignorance over all possible finer details :) - but it would be more noticeable in 7mm, for sure.

 

There is, of course, no reason not to run the Terrier as a Terrier, but it makes little sense as they are so distinctively and clearly Brighton as-built. Perhaps I investigate c.1880s LB&SCR stock?

 

Whilst it could get an LSWR paint job to pair with the B4 for a 1900s setting...but that makes little benefit to the layout as it stands. With half a plan to have modular extensions in time, a small platform served by Terrier-hauled 4W pax stock is on the cards, but is a ways off yet.

 

I would like something to boss about some earlier wagons (1850s-70s builds) but had thought this might be a good excuse for a first foray into kit building, if not the Minerva Manning Wardle. Perhaps the Terrier could be sympathetically mucked about with to give the impression of something a little more generic which would fit the bill.

 

Answers on a postcard!

 

The third and final proposed setting is pre-1924 Midland, with the Deel-meister conducting affairs. So to speak. These three give a modelling scope of 50+ years and about well over 100 miles of coastline which should be enough to maintain interest indefinitely...but...worth bearing in mind that Ingleford started with the same idea and fairly quickly zero'd in on a single, early, setting...so who knows :)

 

[lezz01]

They ran one of the Terrier's as an experimental 2-4-0 T for a while. I'm not sure which one or for how long but I do know for sure that they did. 

4mm long term project. Why not join the EM crowd? We are a friendly bunch and there is lots of help and knowledge available. More room between the frames is never a bad thing. We cater for both 18.2mm and 18.83mm gauges and the stores are great with a very quick turn around and is cheaper than the shops. Track building is fun and addictive plus it's cheaper than ready to lay track if you don't fancy building your own there is ready to lay from Peco via the stores and there are also kits available. 

7mm lots of kit options with multiple standards. Corse, fine and Scale 7 it is expensive but you need a lot less of it to fill a space. Slaters kits are very good, I've built a couple myself, MPD kits are also very good with inside motion kits available. Some 7mm kits are very good and some not so good but they don't seem to suffer from the compromises that 4mm kits suffer from because RTR was almost unheard of until recently and there isn't a lot of body line kits to fit RTR chassis so most kits are complete minus wheels and motor/gearboxes although Slaters kits are complete kits mostly.  

Regards Lez.    

[Asterix2012]

This may be if interest, found when looking for something completely different on Google 

 

Dundee port authority regulations from 1984.

 

Includes a section on page 13 about running trains in the docks.

 

 I suspect the content has not changed a lot from previous iterations.

 

https://www.forthports.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Dundee-Port-Authority-Byelaws-1984.pdf

 

 

[Schooner]

Thanks, I enjoyed reading all of that! From a modelling PoV my takeaways were

• Max 4mph
• Flagman walks ahead (I think he might be shown having a chat, or leaning on a post to watch the train onto the quay itself)
• "red light exhibited in a conspicuous manner on each side in front and showing both ways, and...also a red light on the rear end of the train."

the last of which might require the purchase of some crimson nail varnish...

[Asterix2012]

4 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Thanks, I enjoyed reading all of that! From a modelling PoV my takeaways were

• Max 4mph
• Flagman walks ahead (I think he might be shown having a chat, or leaning on a post to watch the train onto the quay itself)
• "red light exhibited in a conspicuous manner on each side in front and showing both ways, and...also a red light on the rear end of the train."

the last of which might require the purchase of some crimson nail varnish...

I don’t recall seeing any trains in the harbour with anyone walking in front.

 

One other thing, the original line to the harbour ran along a public street and pre dated the tramway act by decades so unskirted pugs shared the street with all manner of horse drawn traffic and passers by.

[Schooner]

Maybe Part V 32 referred only (or was applied only) to public land - the street running section perhaps?

Edited January 14 by Schooner

[Schooner]

Well hey there lil fella!

 

 

Now, what are we going to do with you?

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Now, what are we going to do with you?

 

One gets the impression that more Terriers were sold second hand than the Brighton ever made.

 

May not be son true of Dapol, though.

[Pete Haitch]

On 27/12/2023 at 16:03, Schooner said:

https://www.chris-draw.com/hemispherical-water-or-tar-tank.html

 

Mr Schooner - having introduced me to this rabbit hole, I hope you'll forgive me for placing this request here as my searches are drawing blank. Can anyone advise me where I can obtain a suitable 4mm filler/manhole, or a pannier filler and cap? Many thanks,

Pete.

P.S. 'Rivets' are waterslide ones from @railtec-models

[MrWolf]

I get a lot of bits and pieces from here, they certainly do tank and tender fillers of all types:

 

http://247developments.co.uk/#

[Pete Haitch]

17 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I get a lot of bits and pieces from here, they certainly do tank and tender fillers of all types:

 

http://247developments.co.uk/#

 

Many thanks Rob.  I'll try a tender filler from them and I see they do an LMS tank filler which I may order as well, as I have a number of potential uses. Pete.

[sir douglas]

This is that John Allen photo assumed to be at Butterley

Edited January 21 by sir douglas

[Pete Haitch]

Thanks @sir douglas - your earlier posting of this picture is part of the reason I've been going mad with rivets.   I will have to go Rule 1 and assume that the export of Cornish Lamp Oil to the finest salons of London and other foreign parts was sufficient to require a fleet of tank wagons and lasted rather longer than it did.  I think @MrWolf posted something about this type of fixing, including the correct name, but I can't recall where. 

 

Now I've seen a picture of your model of Kurtz & Son No.1 which fortunately has rather fewer rivets. Is the drawing of it you used, in 'Private Owner Wagons from the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company' by Keith Montague ?

 

Many thanks,

Pete.

[sir douglas]

I already replied to your question about it in my thread

[MrWolf]

I'm assuming that you are talking about the lateral fixing of the tank to the solebars? 

That's generally known as a strap bolt, although that one is obviously made as a dedicated component. I think that it came up in one of the wagon threads.

[Schooner]

Reference pic stashing:

 

I'm back in the real world for a spell, so hoping to have a go at some modelling before too long!

 

In other news, I've just come across a (potentially) affordable model, RTL* as it were, of this grand old lady

at about 1:80, assuming accurate measurement. Just the thing, and rigged in just the condition, to go in a layout-backing graving dock...

 

*Ready To Launch?

 

[magmouse]

I had to look up that flag code, but now I have…. Cripes! Looking forward to seeing the ship model, assuming it’s acquisition comes off.

 

Nick.

[Fishplate]

7 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, magmouse said:

had to look up that flag code

 

Means 'limited clearance, no position of safety beyond this point' in my (railway) world. . .

[Annie]

9 hours ago, Schooner said:

In other news, I've just come across a (potentially) affordable model, RTL* as it were, of this grand old lady

at about 1:80, assuming accurate measurement. Just the thing, and rigged in just the condition, to go in a layout-backing graving dock...

Gosh, - now there's a fine looking ship.  I had to look up the flag code too which made me raise my eyebrows a bit. 

I hope your intentions to purchase do pay off Ok as that would make a fine centrepiece for any maritime model railway. 

[Northroader]

Polish Air Force:

 

 

or, French Stop signal:

 

[Nick C]

55 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Totally off-topic, but I've just learned something about heraldry after seeing that photo - that insignia changed in 1993 to put the white square top-left (as shown by the fourth and rearmost aircraft) as the colour of the charge (in Poland's case, the eagle - white) is more important than that of the shield (red).

 

Somehow this thread seems like that sort of place where such persnickety would be appreciated!

[Worsdell forever]

Could have been worse...