Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[MikeParkin65]

14 minutes ago, bmb5dnp1 said:

Hello,

     I was living in Australia during the period that Hornby were offering replacements/chassi blocks for those class 31s that had suffered Mazac rot. I attended the next Warley exhibition and asked Simon Kohler whether I could still get replacements as I was abroad when they were first offered. He told me that he knew of no issues with with the class 31s amd no replacements/chassis blocks had been offered or were planned to be offered. It may be that he wasn't aware of any issues but how likely would that be ? Bearing this in mind I'm not sure how much weight I would give to any comments about the number of returns.

 

                       Dave

I well recall that when the 2002 Black 5 was released and there were questions asked about the absence of a late crest lined version SK said that was because the Black 5 never carried that livery. 

[cctransuk]

7 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I well recall that when the 2002 Black 5 was released and there were questions asked about the absence of a late crest lined version SK said that was because the Black 5 never carried that livery. 

 

Is it any wonder that many of us question the extent of Hornby's knowledge of the prototypes of models that they produce?

 

CJI.

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Is it any wonder that many of us question the extent of Hornby's knowledge of the prototypes of models that they produce?

 

CJI.

 

He's not a researcher though and would think his involvement with the actual models was minimal.

 

Surely it was people like Paul Isles designing the actual models. 

 

 

I don't expect a marketing man to tell me the ins and outs of Manchester United's team performance last night. But I do expect him to try and sell me a ticket or a "Match Day Experience" as they are called now....

 

 

 

Jason

[franciswilliamwebb]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't expect a marketing man to tell me the ins and outs of Manchester United's team performance last night. But I do expect him to try and sell me a ticket or a "Match Day Experience" as they are called now....

To which he replies “we’ve never done tickets for those” 😉

[cctransuk]

Just now, Steamport Southport said:

 

He's not a researcher though and would think his involvement with the actual models was minimal.

 

Surely it was people like Paul Isles designing the actual models. 

 

 

I don't expect a marketing man to tell me the ins and outs of Manchester United's team performance last night. But I do expect him to try and sell me a ticket or a "Match Day Experience" as they are called now....

 

 

 

Jason

 

Surely it would be better if sales persons who do not know the answer to a query did not make up wholly inaccurate response statements?

 

All that needs to be done is to take down the questioner's contact details; promise to have someone with knowledge to contact them; and make sure that is what happens!

 

CJI.

[matchmaker]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The previous Hornby model?

 

ISTR many were saying it was pointless Hornby making a new one as that was fine....

 

 

Jason

Having looked at photos of the new one I think I'll stick with my previous version. The new coupling looks awkward and the lamps are awful! My 2002 version was bought from Ebay for the princely sum of £79.99 and runs perfectly

Edited May 7 by matchmaker
speeling!

[MikeParkin65]

 

6 minutes ago, matchmaker said:

Having looked at photos of the new one I think I'll stick with my prevoius version. The new coupling looks awkward and the lamps are awful! My 2002 version was bought from Ebay for the princely sum of £79.99 and runs perfectly

Agree - I'm in the same boat. The coupling should be a reasonably easy fix (rip out, add a new 4 pin connector, make and fit 2 new coupling mounts, one on loco, one on tender and a new coupling bar to join them. But removing the lamps and leaving no trace of them without some filling and painting looks more problematic. 

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Reviewed in this months RM  - Digital version now available. Broadly positive with some reservations. Comments on lights and tender coupling, also some detail anomolies I'm surprised none of us have picked up on so far.

 

Conclusion is that its the best rtr 00 Black Five on the market.....

Yes.George Dent’s review. My reaction,as subscriber of 20+ years is one of incredulity and disappointment. I have seen this model in operation a week ago at the NEC and wonder if he was reviewing the same model as the one I saw. Surely if he can remark upon ejector pin markings and “it would have been nice to have a teak frame added around the cab side windows “ then that gap between loco and tender should surely have been worth a mention.

 

But no….”all scale dimensions and proportions virtually perfect “ Well maybe so if the two “halves” of the model are viewed as separate entities .Problem is ,the Black 5 doesn’t run like that as the article’s accompanying photos demonstrate .  There is no evidence that the issue of lamp repositioning was attempted…other than a cautionary

reference to possible damage such as the one I received from Hornby at the NEC

 

    Final verdict….” Excellent “. Really?

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Surely it would be better if sales persons who do not know the answer to a query did not make up wholly inaccurate response statements?

 

All that needs to be done is to take down the questioner's contact details; promise to have someone with knowledge to contact them; and make sure that is what happens!

 

CJI.

SK was marketing, not sales.

 

There is a difference.

 

Marketing’s job isnt to sell you a match day experience, but wrap, package it, put it in a bowtie and promote it.

Sales guys job is to go hunting, sell it, do the paperwork and get the orders in.

[cctransuk]

17 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

SK was marketing, not sales.

 

There is a difference.

 

Marketing’s job isnt to sell you a match day experience, but wrap, package it, put it in a bowtie and promote it.

Sales guys job is to go hunting, sell it, do the paperwork and get the orders in.

 

Whatever - if you don't know the answer, don't put your foot in it!

 

CJI.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Whatever - if you don't know the answer, don't put your foot in it!

 

CJI.

Charming.

But your statement was wrong, he’s not a sales person.
go look it him up on Linked in and read it in his own words, or read one of the hundreds of media interviews he’s made over the years.

 

Professing to pretend to know someone well enough to make comment on them, or their role, behaviour, knowledge etc but yet not even know their job title isn't exactly building credibility.

 

I read many times ill informed comments on SK on here, I think he’s been linked to every role at Hornby from CEO to Janitor in these threads (he must have pretty thick skin to tolerate it, or just ignores it).

 

To be commenting about anyone identifiable, online is a slippery slope fine line imo.

 

 

Edited May 7 by adb968008

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Charming.

But your statement was wrong, he’s not a sales person.
go look it him up on Linked in and read it in his own words, or read one of the hundreds of media interviews he’s made over the years.

 

Professing to pretend to know someone well enough to make comment on them, but yet not even know their job title isn't exactly building your own credibility.

 

Then look down at where your own feet are.

 

Please!

 

My comments were not directed at you, but at the Hornby reps. who apparently made the erroneous statements.

 

I neither know SK nor any other, present or former, member of Hornby staff, nor do I pretend to do so.

 

To be absolutely clear - I was deriding manufacturers' staff who dish out, from a lack of knowledge, misinformation in answer to enquiries from potential customers. At no point were any of my comments directed at you.

 

CJI.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

This is becoming rather like the PO Inquiry...

[jjb1970]

Saying nothing is a perfectly valid approach to PR if it is a deliberate decision.  You issue your marketing material and press releases and leave it, ignore social media, magazines, requests to comment etc. Lots of organisations work that way. The more you say the more likely you are to be sucked into a quagmire, have words micro-analyzed by people with their own agenda. If you do talk then do it well.

Edited May 8 by jjb1970

[Dunsignalling]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Saying nothing is a perfectly valid approach to PR if it is a deliberate decision.  You issue your marketing material and press releases and leave it, ignore social media, magazines, requests to comment etc. Lots of organisations work that way. The more you say the more likely you are to be tucked into a quagmire, have words micro-analyzed by people with their own agenda. If you do talk then do it we'll.

Certainly better than one alternative that pops up far too often:

 

"If you can' blind 'em with science, baffle 'em with Bull***t."

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

So - the current state is 229.99 Beer Tokens unallocated in the hobbies account. Which company will benefit? 

 

No other Hornby items currently available. Any views on the Class 11, we had several of those lurking nearby at the time of my layout. Would make a nice yard pilot alternating with my steam brake Jinty conversion.

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

So - the current state is 229.99 Beer Tokens unallocated in the hobbies account. Which company will benefit? 

 

No other Hornby items currently available. Any views on the Class 11, we had several of those lurking nearby at the time of my layout. Would make a nice yard pilot alternating with my steam brake Jinty conversion.

 

Seems well received on the Heljan thread. My Black 5 fund has gone on another sound fitted Class 24 - currently £190 from Kernow. Seemed quite an appropriate alternative!

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Seems well received on the Heljan thread. My Black 5 fund has gone on another sound fitted Class 24 - currently £190 from Kernow. Seemed quite an appropriate alternative!

Currently their 25 is an exceptional bargain .

Edited May 8 by Ian Hargrave
Alteration to text

[MikeParkin65]

6 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Currently their 24 is an exceptional bargain .

Massively off topic but its a relative bargain , the last one I bought from the Class 37 Preservation Group was £180! :)

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The "good old days" of an article telling you that a model could pull six coaches up an incline but omitting the fact that it was about twenty scale feet too short?

 

 

Jason

Presumably you never read any reviews in MRC?

 

Alas the 'Model Rail' review dies come over as rather 'neutral  and while it mentions the loco tender coupling it seems not to have been tested although the gap is mentioned.  The lack of a flywheel is also mentioned but sort of dismissed by saying that it runs well on DCC - not much help to me and no doubt many others.   the comments on the lamps is frankly falling well short - it doesn't mention they are oversize and implies that swapping the headcodes is a simple matter - I wonder if the reviewer tested that before writing the review as it seems very different from reports on here.  Closing comment in the review "'Aside from a few niggles it is an excellent model ---

 

The MR 'Summary' makes interesting reading comapred wu iith comments on here and those from Sam's Trains reported on here -

Pros:-   Looks & fidelity, Attention to detail, High quality finish. Good perfomance

Cons:- Running plate not 100% straight, Lack of flywheel

Final Verdict:- Excellent

 

I think that as we always should we have to consider the comments of any reviewer in the light of their normal approach to reviews and also, maybe, their knowledge of the real thing and the sort of era they model.  All of these things can bring in personal opinions.   However I would hardly consider a model with an RRP substantially north of £200 as 'excellent' if it hasn't got a straight running plate, and a die cast metal running plate at that.   Chinese industry is well practiced in the precision  die casting of small components and sells to the automotive industry, and others, in various countries outside China so it strikes me as odd that it cannot get a dead straight die cast running plate on a 4mm scale model of a steam engine;  maybe you get what the factory is prepared to pay for?

[TheSignalEngineer]

44 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

My Black 5 fund has gone on another sound fitted Class 24 - currently £190 from Kernow. Seemed quite an appropriate alternative!

I did think of replacing my old 24. We got a few around in my modelling period

 They usually appeared on Black 5 turns.

[Black 5 Bear]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Currently their 24 is an exceptional bargain .

Not to mention TMC's DCC ready 97201 Experiment in Derby Research Livery, currently on offer for £92.71+ P+P!

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Currently their 24 is an exceptional bargain .

My mistake sorry.I should have posted Heljan 25. 

[ColinB]

On 07/05/2024 at 20:12, cctransuk said:

 

Whatever - if you don't know the answer, don't put your foot in it!

 

CJI.

The thing is if it is your business, you ask someone who does. Trouble is a lot of people don't like to ask. 

[ColinB]

On 07/05/2024 at 16:50, MikeParkin65 said:

 

Agree - I'm in the same boat. The coupling should be a reasonably easy fix (rip out, add a new 4 pin connector, make and fit 2 new coupling mounts, one on loco, one on tender and a new coupling bar to join them. But removing the lamps and leaving no trace of them without some filling and painting looks more problematic. 

Yes it is all possible, but this is a £200 plus model, would you want to do this. You probably are going to either do some serious filing or buy a new tender base and bottom to fit the 4 pin socket.