GWR 4 Plank Open (O21)

[magmouse]

I'm only just catching up with this thread, since it isn't directly relevant to me as I model in 7mm scale. However, for those wanting to add the sheet rails, here is my method - not sure how it would scale down to 4mm, but it may be of some use.

 

Form the semicircular guide from tee-section brass. It bends easily around a suitable former. Then file one side flat to make the L-section of the finished thing. Don't try to bend L-section, it will twist all over the place.

 

Sheet rail formed from brass rod, filed to half thickness at the end and a flat section piece solder on, then the joggle formed:

 

Pivot plate made of plasticard and glued to the end of the wagon:

 

Fit the rail. This is for a wagon that will have a sheet, so it is easier to make the rail in two halves, and solder together, rather than trying to get both the bends in just the right place for the length needed:

 

Add the plate thingy to the rail. As this will mostly be covered by the sheet, I didn't add the detail of the strips that held the real thing in place:

 

Add the semicircular guide, with blocks cut from Evergreen strip. I drilled and pinned these for strength, but probably too fiddly and not needed in 4mm:

 

This is all on a PECO (ex. Webster) kit for the 4-plank. The finished result:

 

 

 

Nick.

 

 

 

[Schooner]

 

Well that's @Mikkel vindicated!

Edited December 4, 2022 by Schooner

[Annie]

15 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

Well that's @Mikkel vindicated!

Oooooo one that's painted a proper colour.

[dpgibbons]

2 hours ago, magmouse said:

However, for those wanting to add the sheet rails, here is my method - not sure how it would scale down to 4mm, but it may be of some use.

 

Excellent job with the tarpaulin - care to share how you did it?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

When were these wagons withdrawn from BR service, can I get away with having one as a ballast wagon in the late 60's?

I'm assuming not as all the releases are in GWR livery, but confirmation would be appreciated.

 

Mike.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

When were these wagons withdrawn from BR service

 

I doubt any entered BR service. There was a thread a while back (can't find it at the moment) where this was discussed iirc.

 

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

I doubt any entered BR service.

 

@Enterprisingwestern, remembering that these wagons were built between 1887 and 1902, so the youngest survivors would be 46 years old at nationalisation. Do Mr Larkin's books cover ex-GWR wagons yet?

 

The SVR example, No. 41277, was built in 1890, a member of old series lot 556; unfortunately the 813 Fund's website gives no provenance.

[magmouse]

8 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

Excellent job with the tarpaulin - care to share how you did it?

Thanks. It’s based on a technique by @Mikkel, with elements of other people’s methods and some tweaks of my own.

 

The starting point is the GWR sheet artwork from Ian Smith: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/gallery/image/93183-gwr-1903-tarpaulin/

 

After editing this to get the required sheet number, it is printed with a laser printer on the thinnest printer paper I could find (60gsm rather than the usual 80). The paper then has self-adhesive  aluminium tape stuck on the back - the stuff used to seal the joints of sheets of insulation used for roofs, etc. It’s this tape that helps the paper hold its shape. The sheet can then be cut to size.

 

The cords that hold the sheet in place are Eze-line (spelling?) - very fine elastic - so they stay taut. The line is glued to the back of the sheet before it is fitted to the wagon, and run through small holes made in the edge of the sheet. Of course, it means you have to model the cleats where the cords are tied off - little hooks of fine wire in holes drilled in the body.

 

There are a few tricks to getting the sheet to form the right shape. As you see in the last construction picture, there is a plasticard former at the ends, and half way along the wagon, that the sheet is glued to to get the right, curved shape. The sheet is stuck on is stages, first the ridge, then to the formers, then the top of the wagon sides. I preform the sheet before gluing, to establish the main fold lines and creases, looking at prototype photos to see how the sheet should hang. The final stage is gluing the folds at the ends, poking a bit of Rocket Hot CA glue under the folds with a cocktail stick.

 

The aim is to get a sense the sheet is pliable, and hangs under its own weight, and tensioned by the cords. Getting the main creases as sharp as possible is key. Another trick is that the edges of the sheet are cut with a very slight curve between each tie point, so it looks like it is under tension. I made a template from scrap brass sheet to cut these curves.

 

Weathering is with powders. For this very dirty example, I edited the image file on the computer before printing, so it was brown-grey, and a dirty white, rather than a pure black and white, to give the weathering a head start. Of course, if you want a relatively clean sheet, don’t do that.

 

I hope that helps - 

 

Nick.

[Sitham Yard]

11 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I doubt any entered BR service. There was a thread a while back (can't find it at the moment) where this was discussed iirc.

 

The prototype W14076 for the model (925008) shown on the Rapido website is Fig.10 in "A Pictorial Record of Great Western Wagons" by J. H. Russell published in the 1970's. A nice example of the hybrid liveries to be seen in early BR days.   

Andrew

[Miss Prism]

12 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

The prototype W14076 for the model (925008) shown on the Rapido website

 

url for that page?

 

[Sitham Yard]

23 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

url for that page?

 

Not knowing much about computers, I am puzzled about this and similar requests. I just search for "W14076" and it comes up.

Andrew

[ikcdab]

6 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

Not knowing much about computers, I am puzzled about this and similar requests. I just search for "W14076" and it comes up.

Andrew

url = link

[Miss Prism]

I haven't got my 'Pictorial Record of Great Western Wagons' available, but I can't find 14076 in the wagon lot lists. How is it described in the book?

[Compound2632]

Link to the artwork in question: https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/gwr-four-plank-open-no-w14076-br-lettering/.

 

As far as my notes from GWR Goods Wagons (3e) go, the 14xxx block was given over to P diagrams.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Compound2632

[Sitham Yard]

42 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

I haven't got my 'Pictorial Record of Great Western Wagons' available, but I can't find 14076 in the wagon lot lists. How is it described in the book?

Just as a four-planker. Jim Russell does not come over as knowledgeable about the details of wagons, A modeller, he apparently just photographed what he saw while working for the GWR and afterwards when he left to become a professional photographer.

 

Rapido are also proposing to model 14432, don't know their source for this number.

Andrew

[Compound2632]

Is it possible that wagons transferred to service stock were renumbered, taking the numbers of deceased P-series diagram wagons?

[Miss Prism]

41 minutes ago, Sitham Yard said:

Rapido are also proposing to model 14432, don't know their source for this number.

 

Stranger and stranger. 14432 was an obscure 2-plank sleeper wagon.

 

There are 4-plankers that never made it on to the O21 lists, which may explain 14076.

 

[Sitham Yard]

9 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Stranger and stranger. 14432 was an obscure 2-plank sleeper wagon.

 

There are 4-plankers that never made it on to the O21 lists, which may explain 14076.

 

Now found the photo see https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p910105639/h1FABBD42#he665a45d for the prototype. Could this be a rebuild from the wagon you mention?

Andrew

Edited December 4, 2022 by Sitham Yard

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Sitham Yard said:

Now found the photo see https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p910105639/h1FABBD42#he665a45d 

 

Long buffer guides.

[magmouse]

Curious - the wagon in the rail-online picture has angled ends to the headstocks, and the reinforcing plate attached to the bottom of the solebar where it meets the headstock. These are features of later wagons, not the usual 4-plank wagons. There is something odd about this one...

 

Nick

[Mikkel]

On 27/11/2022 at 12:14, Schooner said:

Oh it's tip top Tommy, 

 

 

 

 

Slinn's 1978 version of Great Western Way rides again? 🙂 

 

[gwrrob]

These are due next month according to Facebook and Rail's.

 

[nigel newling]

For interest, I attach a photograph of an engineering occupation at Winchcombe in 1949 It is clearly a GW 4-plank being used to collect spoil during the installation of a replacement cess drain. While it is impossible to see a wagon number, it is clearly an old wagon. It has square cut headstocks and a single side brake with a Churchward ratchet brake guard. It would appear to have the standard modification of a second lever added on the opposite side with one pushrod and brake shoe as there is no visible cross shaft. Definitely an instance of the Rapido model. :-)

[Garethp8873]

Interestingly I've just found another 4 Plank that was transferred to ballast work on P.29 of the GWR Journal Issue 81. Makes me wonder whether the 4 Planks being transferred from goods service to departmental was anything to do with World War 2?

[Compound2632]

On 21/12/2022 at 21:22, nigel newling said:

For interest, I attach a photograph of an engineering occupation at Winchcombe in 1949 It is clearly a GW 4-plank being used to collect spoil during the installation of a replacement cess drain.

 

Indeed, a whole row of them.