The exhibition circuit post-pandemic

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, john new said:

The recent comments above about new blood etc., etc., are not wrong and I concur it is needed. What they overlook though is that across the board existing organisations are finding it harder and harder to attract new blood as volunteers for several reasons; however, it appears to be a given that within the generations born post the baby boom there is a far smaller % of people wanting to get active in what have been traditional volunteer roles.

 

Life/society is evolving, the outcome is that some activities are as a consequence withering - with railway modelling one example is the afore mentioned steady decline in volunteers for roles like table shifters, floor measurers, car park stewards, club/society officers etc., that many clubs and groups are facing, whilst at the same time there is a massive rise in video coverage of the exhibitions.

 

That Warners and Hornby Magazine are now organising some of the larger events is probably also an indicative example of how things are changing, as one sector of the hobby (volunteer led groups) is in decline commercial interests are moving into the resultant void.

 

The hobby is by no means dead - it is just evolving.

 

John

 

I totally agree. I think society has changed as a whole and younger modellers are far less club orientated than my/our generation.

 

1. Back in 1968 when I joined my local club, that was the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to gain experience and learn about the hobby - not the case now

1. Back then club members were happy with generic anywhere/nowhere/anytime layouts to run their stock on on club nights - not now, modellers want specific locations and periods and no two people's view on layouts is exactly the same - better to build your own private layout at home than compromise in a club.

 

As regards your point about volunteering, again I agree.

 

Back in 1968, virtually every member felt they had a duty to support the club at exhibitions. They also felt they had a right ( and a duty) to take part in decision making at AGM's and such. There were often elections at AGM's because 6 or 7 members had put their names forward for the 3 committee posts - not now! These days members have to have their arms twisted to volunteer for Chairman, Secretary etc. Someone else does all the work. I often hear members say that this or that is wrong in the club and something needs to be done about it. 'Why don't you raise that at the AGM?' I ask. 'Oh, I would never do that.' they always say. ' If I did that they would expect me to do something about it and I'm not having that.'

 

Part of this is, I think, the changing nature of 'clubs' - Chelsea FC is a 'club', your local gym probably calls itself a 'club' but neither are clubs in the old fashioned sense. People are now used to joining 'clubs' and paying a premium so that they have no responsibilities - they turn up to the gym, use the facilities and leave. Someone else puts the equipment back, someone else cleans up, someone else locks up. And I think that attitude, that expectation is now dominant in society.

[2E Sub Shed]

1 hour ago, john new said:

We do at York (Scouts).

 

I have helped at a large, i.e. several thousand attendance, (non model railway or railway)  event where a youth organisation assisted with the Car Parking. Due to the aggressive behaviour of some of those being directed to parking by a young person, they withdrew from supporting the event.

 

A sad reflection on society.

Edited April 16, 2022 by 2E Sub Shed

[Les1952]

It isn't just model railway clubs and shows that are suffering.

 

Amateur Operatic Societies are much thinner on the ground than they used to be, as are their audiences.  Two local ones have cut from seven nights plus matinee to three nights (one without a matinee) and struggle to fill those.  One in particular has gone from filling a 600 seat theatre for a full week with "Annie"  (apart from one seat) to a box of around 50% on four performances this year.

 

Two more groups I sang with have folded altogether.  There aren't enough new young singers to replace those of us who need to hang up our tonsils due to age.  Similarly not as many prospective Musical Directors and Producers, and filling the committee requires people to have more time than their job allows.

 

The pattern is also familiar.  Performing groups get them interested as teenagers, then they start work or go to college/university.  After that the job takes up large and often unpredictable amounts of time.  Then families come along and eat into available time and cash.  If groups are lucky former members return when they get towards retirement age and work/family/cashflow pressures have eased.

 

All the very best

Les

 

who has attended far too many funerals of railway modellers and amateur singers over the years.....

[Chris M]

I’m not sure youngsters ( under 16s) should be allowed to help on car parks or even during assembly of a model railway exhibition. It might sound over the top but in these ultra cautious days should young folk be allowed into what is effectively a “construction site”?

[newbryford]

6 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I’m not sure youngsters ( under 16s) should be allowed to help on car parks or even during assembly of a model railway exhibition. It might sound over the top but in these ultra cautious days should young folk be allowed into what is effectively a “construction site”?

 

I would trust the 12 year old son of one of my operating team to be of more use - and more sensible - than some of our more senior club members!

[HillsideDepot]

Certainly everything we do with Scouts now has to have a written Risk Assessment, so there would have to be a clear understanding of what was to be done beforehand. If it was carrying tables around before most people arrived and then taking barriers around once layouts were set-up then that avoids most of the "construction site" type hazards. I know giving a hand moving layout sections was mentioned above, and that might be problematic. 

 

You also need to consider the attention span of young people, and that they won't see what is required and pitch in without being asked as it will be all new to them. There is a big difference between moving tables one at a time from a stack to predetermined locations over a short timespan and moving sometimes odd shaped and possibly unbalanced baseboards whenever a car, van or trailer turns up over the course of an evening.

 

Car parking obviously has its own hazards and therefore risk assessments, but when I've been involved in doing it we didn't direct people into a specific space, but waved people to the right part of the area and let them make the actual decision on where to park. We also made sure that we had an adult at the entrance and where cars were parking just in case anyone wanted to be awkward, but the young people did the work. 

 

From a Scouts perspective, it can be done, so long as the exhibition team know what is possible and reasonable and the Scout leaders know what is required and can brief accordingly. It'd probably also be wise to ask Explorer Scouts (aged 14-18) or Scout Network (18-25)  members rather than Scouts (10-14).

 

District Deputy Commissioner (14-25) 

Mid Wiltshire Scouts

Edited April 16, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Spelling

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

I’m not sure youngsters ( under 16s) should be allowed to help on car parks or even during assembly of a model railway exhibition. It might sound over the top but in these ultra cautious days should young folk be allowed into what is effectively a “construction site”?

 

Alexandra Palace define the hall during setup and knockdown of any show as a construction site, hence under 16s are banned and we all have to wear hi-viz. I suspect this is an exhibtion centre thing as their rules have to cover a wide variety of shows.

[john new]

4 hours ago, Les1952 said:

It isn't just model railway clubs and shows that are suffering.

 

Amateur Operatic Societies are much thinner on the ground than they used to be, as are their audiences.  Two local ones have cut from seven nights plus matinee to three nights (one without a matinee) and struggle to fill those.  One in particular has gone from filling a 600 seat theatre for a full week with "Annie"  (apart from one seat) to a box of around 50% on four performances this year.

 

Two more groups I sang with have folded altogether.  There aren't enough new young singers to replace those of us who need to hang up our tonsils due to age.  Similarly not as many prospective Musical Directors and Producers, and filling the committee requires people to have more time than their job allows.

 

The pattern is also familiar.  Performing groups get them interested as teenagers, then they start work or go to college/university.  After that the job takes up large and often unpredictable amounts of time.  Then families come along and eat into available time and cash.  If groups are lucky former members return when they get towards retirement age and work/family/cashflow pressures have eased.

 

All the very best

Les

 

who has attended far too many funerals of railway modellers and amateur singers over the years.....

Spot on, my wife assists backstage for a local youth theatre group, for the current show ideally 8 crew needed, they have a max of 6 and only one has a child in the show. Without these legacy parents staying on after their children have left there will be no future shows. There is a volunteer crisis across the board.

[Pacific231G]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Alexandra Palace define the hall during setup and knockdown of any show as a construction site, hence under 16s are banned and we all have to wear hi-viz. I suspect this is an exhibtion centre thing as their rules have to cover a wide variety of shows.

Hi Phil

That's probably true and one important thing about AP, compared with most other shows (though I assume it's the same at Warley), is that vehicles are allowed to enter the hall during setup and lockdown. Given the nature of the site it would be difficult to do it any other way but it does have implications for site safety- a van driving through the hall is a bit different from a couple of blokes carrying baseboards or pushing a trolley.  I don't remember having to wear hi-viz duirng knockdown at previous exhibitions at AP but I can see why the hall now requires it. Most British shows are not of course held in exhibtion venues but in sports and community halls but I assume that all responsible MR exhibtion organisers carry out a safety assessment. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Pacific231G

[arran]

On 16/04/2022 at 10:53, john new said:

The recent comments above about new blood etc., etc., are not wrong and I concur it is needed. What they overlook though is that across the board existing organisations are finding it harder and harder to attract new blood as volunteers for several reasons; however, it appears to be a given that within the generations born post the baby boom there is a far smaller % of people wanting to get active in what have been traditional volunteer roles.

 

Life/society is evolving, the outcome is that some activities are as a consequence withering - within railway modelling one example is the afore mentioned steady decline in volunteers for roles like table shifters, floor measurers, car park stewards, club/society officers etc., that many clubs and groups are facing, whilst at the same time there is a massive rise in video coverage of the exhibitions.

 

That Warners and Hornby Magazine are now organising some of the larger events is probably also an indicative example of how things are changing, as one sector of the hobby (volunteer led groups) is in decline commercial interests are moving into the resultant void.

 

The hobby is by no means dead - it is just evolving.

 

HI All

 

All shows whether Association /  Society / Club or Commercial require good will to make them happen , not all to the same degree but without any good will the shows are stuffed .

 

Regards Arran

[newbryford]

9 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Phil

That's probably true and one important thing about AP, compared with most other shows (though I assume it's the same at Warley), is that vehicles are allowed to enter the hall during setup and lockdown. Given the nature of the site it would be difficult to do it any other way but it does have implications for site safety- a van driving through the hall is a bit different from a couple of blokes carrying baseboards or pushing a trolley.  I don't remember having to wear hi-viz duirng knockdown at previous exhibitions at AP but I can see why the hall now requires it. Most British shows are not of course held in exhibtion venues but in sports and community halls but I assume that all responsible MR exhibtion organisers carry out a safety assessment. 

 

No vehicles were allowed in AP this year for layouts and traders - except for contractors setting up trade stands and they had to be out before a particular time -  I think it was 12noon.

 

With regard to wearing hi-viz - there was certainly no-one policing it. Plenty of folk at breakdown not wearing it.

 

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

No vehicles were allowed in AP this year for layouts and traders - except for contractors setting up trade stands and they had to be out before a particular time -  I think it was 12noon.

 

With regard to wearing hi-viz - there was certainly no-one policing it. Plenty of folk at breakdown not wearing it.

 

Thanks for that.

We actually  got our society stand cleared and out pretty quickly. I did notice vans waiting to come in but assumed that they were for the larger layouts etc. and they were just holding them back for a bit to avoud the melée  I've experienced in previous exhibitions at AP with a long queue of vehicles coming in very early in the breakdown . Presumably these were the same contractors waitng to come in after everyone else had gone. That being the case I've no idea why they thought we should wear hi-viz except perhaps to distinguish us from the public hanging around in the hall after the show closed.  

[Barry O]

To get vehicles into large venues you need to have them guided by a responsible person..travel slowly with warning lights on. If you can't provide enough stewards to do this vehicle access is not permitted. Remember that both before show open and after show close larger halls are regarded as construction sites hence the need for hi via vests and no under 16s allowed on the exhibition floor..  which is why Warley had an under 16 area.

 

Baz

[RANGERS]

3 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

No vehicles were allowed in AP this year for layouts and traders - except for contractors setting up trade stands and they had to be out before a particular time -  I think it was 12noon.

 

With regard to wearing hi-viz - there was certainly no-one policing it. Plenty of folk at breakdown not wearing it.

 

I did a tourism show at AP a few years ago and whilst the hi-vis seemed sensible enough, hard hats were being enforced when I arrived which was a tad over the top.

The requirement came about as the standbuilders were still fixing the foam board signs to the shell scheme booths so it was deemed that there was work at height which presented a risk to anyone in the hall.

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, newbryford said:

With regard to wearing hi-viz - there was certainly no-one policing it. Plenty of folk at breakdown not wearing it.

 

The rule was being pretty well adhered to when I arrived, but there will always be someone. The first year it was in place, one exhibitor was having a row about H&S with our exhibitions team. Apparently the railways were built without H&S. When I pointed out that people died, his response was "not many". I didn't bother asking how many of his kids he'd sacrifice so their employer could enjoy greater profits. 

[Huw Griffiths]

54 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

The first year it was in place, one exhibitor was having a row about H&S with our exhibitions team. Apparently the railways were built without H&S. When I pointed out that people died, his response was "not many". I didn't bother asking how many of his kids he'd sacrifice so their employer could enjoy greater profits. 

 

I think we can all guess what answer you might have got.

 

Well, if it had been anything other than "none" - or a string of expletives - you would have known you were dealing with a "prize" jerk, whom you'd never want invited to any exhibition ever again.

 

I seem to recall hearing about one major railway figure from the Victorian era who, when asked how many people had perished during the construction of one piece of railway infrastructure, breezily replied along the lines of "upwards of a hundred".

 

The gentleman concerned might have seen nothing wrong with such blatant contempt for life and limb - clearly regarding other people as expendable.

 

Unfortunately, attitudes like this appear to have been commonplace amongst senior figures in the transport and construction industries at the time - something which, even many years later, I still find repugnant.

 

Somehow, I suspect that I'm not alone here.

 

 

[Ravenser]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The rule was being pretty well adhered to when I arrived, but there will always be someone. The first year it was in place, one exhibitor was having a row about H&S with our exhibitions team. Apparently the railways were built without H&S. When I pointed out that people died, his response was "not many". I didn't bother asking how many of his kids he'd sacrifice so their employer could enjoy greater profits. 

 

 

The rule also has the spin-off benefit that anyone wearing hi-viz is evidently an exhibitor - and therefore people who shouldn't still be in the hall stand out

 

Vehicles were certainly allowed into the hall during breakdown , though that may not have included layout owners' vehicles. It has got a bit busy in there in past years

[Pacific231G]

48 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

The rule also has the spin-off benefit that anyone wearing hi-viz is evidently an exhibitor - and therefore people who shouldn't still be in the hall stand out

 

Vehicles were certainly allowed into the hall during breakdown , though that may not have included layout owners' vehicles. It has got a bit busy in there in past years

There were no vehicles in by the time we'd cleared this year at AP so they must have been held back. I don't think that was the case a few years ago and it did get busy. I definitely recall the presence of even slow moving vans being a bit uncomfortable while carrying things out of the hall and, on Baz's point, I don't think cars and van were being individually marshalled. Hi-viz wasn't though required then and moving vehicles and machinery would be the only risk assessment reason I can think of for requiring it.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Pacific231G

[Phil Parker]

10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi-viz wasn't though required then and moving vehicles and machinery would be the only risk assessment reason I can think of for requiring it.

 

It's because the hall is a building site, and hi-viz is required on construction sites.

 

Practically though, it is a rule set by the owners of the hall, there are two options, comply or hold the show somewhere else.