Is it just me.................RTR problems

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, PMP said:

 You can. 

 

Obvs this doesn’t include the cardboard carton, so add another 10 seconds. This video was done to demonstrate just how easy it is to get the Bachmann 94xx out of its ice cube, as it was claimed too difficult/tight etc etc on this model.
One of those protagonists may or may not have have posted on this thread that it takes  a minute to check a new model 🙄

I would think that the packing factory worker doing this on a production line would be highly practiced in the art and get the time down even further.  But this vid is about the one-way operation of getting the loco out of it's packing, not putting it back in as well!

 

I may or may not have posted on this thread that it takes about a minute to check a new model, but I intended this to mean a quick once over visual check and confirmation that the wheels turn at least a full revolution in each direction at medium voltage, perhaps using a 9V battery, which can be done quite quickly.  I did not at any time claim that it was any more difficult to remove a Bachmann 94xx from it's packaging than any other model packaged in this way, which it isn't, but I did complain often and vociferously about the lead time for this model and became famous here for it!  Of course, you may or may not be referring to somebody else entirely...

[The Johnster]

18 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've explained before that Bachmann test 100% of their locos before final packing. Of course transit and initial handling by shop or customer could impact a 100% outcome.

 

This explains both my experience, which suggests that Bachmann's QC is better than Hornby's, and the difference in price level for what are, in the case of recent toolings, very similar models in terms of detailing and construction.  We are not party to Hornby's QC regime, but it is IMHO not quite up to the mark!

 

I think it's fair to say that another difference is that Bachmann are part of Kader, who have a say in production at all the various and complex stages of sub-contractee Chinese production, whereas Hornby are only connected to it at the assembly and packing stage, and are probably dealing with several different unconnected faclities as well.  It is to be fair harder to impose consistent QC over the component parts if this is the case.

 

All of which is part of the reason that I buy RTR railway models, and don't produce them!

[The Johnster]

24 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've explained before that Bachmann test 100% of their locos before final packing. Of course transit and initial handling by shop or customer could impact a 100% outcome.

 

This explains both my experience, which suggests that Bachmann's QC is better than Hornby's, and the difference in price level for what are, in the case of recent toolings, very similar models in terms of detailing and construction.  We are not party to Hornby's QC regime, but it is IMHO not quite up to the mark!

 

I think it's fair to say that another difference is that Bachmann are part of Kader, who have a say in production at all the various and complex stages of sub-contractee Chinese production, whereas Hornby are only connected to it at the assembly and packing stage, and are probably dealing with several different unconnected faclities as well.  It is to be fair harder to impose consistent QC over the component parts if this is the case.

 

All of which is part of the reason that I buy RTR railway models, and don't produce them!

[SamThomas]

PDU inspections ?

Just who will pay for the time the final seller takes to carry out the PDI ?

Just say the manuafcture pays - that will leave it open to some final sellers to trouser the money & do nothing.

The final seller - not going to happen with the buyers reluctance to pay RRP.

 

As for the hardened collectors - I've seen them using an eyeglass on the ears of a box to see if its even been opened...............

[PMP]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 I did not at any time claim that it was any more difficult to remove a Bachmann 94xx from it's packaging than any other model packaged in this way, which it isn't, but I did complain often and vociferously about the lead time for this model and became famous here for it!  Of course, you may or may not be referring to somebody else entirely...

Must have been someone else with the same user name then.

[RobinofLoxley]

Obviously, each process, including inspections, that manufacturers do have a cost. They add them all up and employ the cheapest route, which may or may not include assigning intangible value to customer satisfaction. One isnt better than another because they do or dont do a 'Final inspection' or 'Track test'.

 

The model assembly process should be reliable enough that additional final testing isnt required, beyond sampling to check specification. Or, we expect assembly to be very speedy to reduce unit costs, and therefore we need to check every model when it arrives. Both are legitimate.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, PMP said:

Must have been someone else with the same user name then.

Forgotten about that!  But there was never any problem when I eventually came to open the 94xx box, and I never said there was!  I unpacked it carefully as I do with all new models, but encountered no difficulty. 

[kevinlms]

17 hours ago, AndrueC said:

 

Of course if you choose to go to your nearest Post Office, stand in a queue for half an hour then negotiate a transaction with the counter staff it may well be painful. Probably more expensive as well

What is wrong with the Post Office?

 

Unless I go at a busy time, i.e. just before Christmas, I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes at Australia Post and never have to negotiate with the counter staff - it's all done now by them typing the receiving address and I get a receipt with free tracking on it.

 

The last one did have trouble finding the address, because it was THE Great Ocean Road and not Great Ocean Road, as I had given her. 🙂

 

Maybe the problem wasn't with the EU, but home grown?

[rezot]

Of course if you choose to go to your nearest Post Office, stand in a queue for half an hour then negotiate a transaction with the counter staff it may well be painful. Probably more expensive as well 

 

You DO NOT negotiate with the post office counter staff, the rates are fixed . The only questions I get asked is first or second class??  

[kevinlms]

On 13/04/2022 at 12:08, kevinlms said:

What is wrong with the Post Office?

 

Maybe the problem wasn't with the EU, but home grown?

It appears that there was/is problems with the Post Office! Despicable that the PO blamed their employees, when they had a new computer system - didn't they look at the past history of staff?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60390376

[halsey]

On 12/04/2022 at 16:38, AY Mod said:

 

I've explained before that Bachmann test 100% of their locos before final packing. Of course transit and initial handling by shop or customer could impact a 100% outcome.

 

Hmmmmmmm - all of my limited "fails" (4 in 6 months) have been Bachmann RTR brand new with (2 different) retailer fitted DCC chips.

 

 

[halsey]

 

Sorry for duplicate post - an IT fail on my part ........

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by halsey

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, halsey said:

 

Hmmmmmmm - all of my limited "fails" (4 in 6 months) have been Bachmann RTR brand new with (2 different) retailer fitted DCC chips.

 

 

??

[melmerby]

On 10/04/2022 at 16:15, SamThomas said:

Revently bought two Curry's own brand washing machines & they ;

 

1) Actually test their machines with water or

2) Employ someone to chuck a cupful of water into them to give the impression that they do.

Knowing Curry's woeful lack of expertise I would guess 2)😄

Don't get me started on their PC World "experts"☹️

 

Our German manufactured Bosch washer showed signs of being tested, even though it was fully sealed in it's packaging when we got it.

[melmerby]

On 12/04/2022 at 16:38, AY Mod said:

 

I've explained before that Bachmann test 100% of their locos before final packing. Of course transit and initial handling by shop or customer could impact a 100% outcome.

 

1 hour ago, halsey said:

 

Hmmmmmmm - all of my limited "fails" (4 in 6 months) have been Bachmann RTR brand new with (2 different) retailer fitted DCC chips.

 

Maybe you should change your retailers?

Statistically buying from them is adding a 66% failure rate to your purchases☹️

 

I've had little problem with Bachmann locos, or for that matter Hornby and I buy from several of the well known companies e.g. Derails (preferred), Rails, Hattons, TMC and others.

I always fit my own DCC decoders but do run them on DCC first to check for any problems.

 

[halsey]

5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

Maybe you should change your retailers?

Statistically buying from them is adding a 66% failure rate to your purchases☹️

 

I've had little problem with Bachmann locos, or for that matter Hornby and I buy from several of the well known companies e.g. Derails (preferred), Rails, Hattons, TMC and others.

I always fit my own DCC decoders but do run them on DCC first to check for any problems.

 

 

One of my favoured is on that list - I don't blame them but 3 of the 4 came from them - no names as I believe its the manufacturers not the retailers - they are always happy to exchange but the total time lost can be as much as 2 months from the original order with DCC fitting needed to the final DCC fitted replacement arriving.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, halsey said:

 

One of my favoured is on that list - I don't blame them but 3 of the 4 came from them - no names as I believe its the manufacturers not the retailers - they are always happy to exchange but the total time lost can be as much as 2 months from the original order with DCC fitting needed to the final DCC fitted replacement arriving.

But given everything that's been said, how do you know it's not the person fitting the chip that is at fault here?

 

It feels like you want to blame the manufacturer and not even accept it's possible rough handling by the shop or the shop not testing items before and after they fit chips to your new locos.  And lets face it, new RTR locos do not need complicated wiring to put in a chip, even I, a complete luddite until 2020 can insert a chip without frying the chip or the loco.

[ITG]

An interesting topic, not least due to the comparison with my own experience. Over the last 4 years, I’ve bought maybe a dozen or so locos - all pre-owned and all bar two from that well known auction site. Most sales were by private sellers, and a few from retailers. The other two came from a local retailer and another classified ads website. All have been DCC-fitted when I acquired them, some also sound-fitted.

I have not experienced a single failure at the point of acquisition. Most were Bachmann, a few Hornby and a single Heljan. The Heljan popped a drive shaft out after a few months, but I couldn’t necessarily attribute that to any specific cause.

Some were better runners than others, but not to the point where I could call it a failure or fault. Just maybe the cvs not set to the optimum for slow running etc.

So given that by definition all my locos were not recent production, is my experience suggesting that older locos are made to a higher spec? Or is it that they are run in, and any failings when new have been previously addressed? Or am I just lucky?

Edited April 19, 2022 by ITG

[SamThomas]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

Knowing Curry's woeful lack of expertise I would guess 2)😄

Don't get me started on their PC World "experts"☹️

 

Our German manufactured Bosch washer showed signs of being tested, even though it was fully sealed in it's packaging when we got it.

I'm perfectly happy with the sevice life of Curry's own brand white goods.

 

However, I would not buy anything I.T. wise from them, for various reasons.

[Hal Nail]

11 hours ago, ITG said:

Or am I just lucky?

Possibly although if they had been defective from the start, presumably the original purchaser would (or perhaps more accurately, might have been extected to) have returned them?

 

Given eBay has traditionally favoured the buyer in disputes, I've often throught it's arguably less risky than taking your chances on an untested new one from a box shifter!

[Phil Bullock]

Not just locos with QC issues though!

 

Had layout up over last weekend…. Ran a train of 10 100 ton Bachmann Gulf tank cars, TMC limited edition.

 

Hmm these don’t stay on my code 75 track too well …. First port of call check back to backs, all over place and mostly too close so reset.

 

Now the train feels a lot heavier … a lot of drag. Hmm …. After much thought realised with wheels set at correct back to back the outer face of the rims rub on the bogie frames. Out with the file….

 

Ok that’s better …. Much less drag …. But still getting derailments with specific wagons. Had already slackened off bogie retaining screws but on checking the persistent offenders the bogies would stay on the pivot without any screw to hold them …. Far too tight. Out with files again to open up pivot holes in bogies. Running getting better but still occasional derailments.

 

Then discovered that at a certain point of bogie tramp the NEM pocket caught and locked behind the buffer beams on all wagons. Solution is to chamfer away the top edge of the NEM pocket…. Did a couple but then had to take layout down before further testing.

 

They WILL run properly next time out….

[DCB]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

Not just locos with QC issues though!

 

Had layout up over last weekend…. Ran a train of 10 100 ton Bachmann Gulf tank cars, TMC limited edition.

 

Hmm these don’t stay on my code 75 track too well …. First port of call check back to backs, all over place and mostly too close so reset.

 

Now the train feels a lot heavier … a lot of drag. Hmm …. After much thought realised with wheels set at correct back to back the outer face of the rims rub on the bogie frames. Out with the file….

 

Ok that’s better …. Much less drag …. But still getting derailments with specific wagons. Had already slackened off bogie retaining screws but on checking the persistent offenders the bogies would stay on the pivot without any screw to hold them …. Far too tight. Out with files again to open up pivot holes in bogies. Running getting better but still occasional derailments.

 

Then discovered that at a certain point of bogie tramp the NEM pocket caught and locked behind the buffer beams on all wagons. Solution is to chamfer away the top edge of the NEM pocket…. Did a couple but then had to take layout down before further testing.

 

They WILL run properly next time out….

 

Think of the glow of satisfaction you'll get when the train finally runs properly.  That sense of achievement, the anticipation of the next test run. When you are absorbed in trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear all your other troubles are put on hold for a while.  

Only joking its ******** frustrating.

[Phil Bullock]

28 minutes ago, DCB said:

 

Think of the glow of satisfaction you'll get when the train finally runs properly.  That sense of achievement, the anticipation of the next test run. When you are absorbed in trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear all your other troubles are put on hold for a while.  

Only joking its ******** frustrating.

Think you are correct on all counts there! 

[halsey]

I did/do really want an 009 Double Fairlie so I am tempted to enter the lottery once more...............

 

QUESTION

 

From actual experience please which retailers genuinely test prior to sending out?

 

The Double Fairlie looks like an easy DIY DCC fit (there is a trap-door?) so I am going to do it myself - I will forego buying a weathered version so again it won't have been played with post factory.

 

Comments?

 

Also if you own one does the Double Fairlie truly ease 009 (turnout) pickup issues with its double bogie pickups

 

Thanks guys............

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by halsey