Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[PMP]

2 hours ago, 1E BoY said:

 

I think we are in danger of assuming that the "child" market is restricted to 12 volt DC models running on Code 100 track. It is not!

 

 

You might be assuming that, I’m not.

I am however making the point that for RTR OO market Hornby isn’t the only player, and they don’t have a monopoly on understanding the size or commercial value of that market, which is what has been claimed in this thread.

[Ouroborus]

There's comment previously about the number of model shops remaining.   I can't remember exactly, but i think it referenced the model shops directory and that the number of shops was up in number.

 

This seems a little at odds with what i see around where i live - just 2 shops in Gwent when not too long ago there were 7 i could think of. 

 

Using the wayback machine, i had a look at the current listings versus 2008.  For time reasons, I picked the first six listed counties in England and the first listed counties in each of Scotland, Wales (2010) and Ireland.

 

              2022.   2008

Avon.        2            6

Bedford.  1             3

Berkshire 4.            7

Bucks       4.             9

Cambs     3.            8

Ches       14           18

 

 

Aberdeenshire 1     1

 

North wales 6.        17

 

Co Antrim 1         3

 

Apologies if the formatting goes to pieces, not easy on a phone.

 

Lots of choice in Cheshire!

 

Some caveats - e&oe   not every model shop is listed on the site; for time reasons, I didn't look at every county.  (Others, feel free)  Only Aberdeenshire didn't shrink in number, though the single shop listed is not the same.

 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

You might be assuming that, I’m not.

I am however making the point that for RTR OO market Hornby isn’t the only player, and they don’t have a monopoly on understanding the size or commercial value of that market, which is what has been claimed in this thread.

Our kids started their “railway journey” with LGB around the Christmas tree, it proved easy to hold and extremely robust (at least the Stainz small locos) rock solid track and could even run in heavy snow which they loved, we moved onto a full garden railway in G and many locos and stock and even a live steamer eventually, but that didn’t preclude the inevitable OO layout in the playroom at the same time, it was a good learning curve watching and errr helping Dad build it. In between the two there were small Christmas “present” layouts made specifically for each kiddlywink which certainly did include Thomas et all.

[Phil Parker]

36 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

There's comment previously about the number of model shops remaining.   I can't remember exactly, but i think it referenced the model shops directory and that the number of shops was up in number.

 

This seems a little at odds with what i see around where i live - just 2 shops in Gwent when not too long ago there were 7 i could think of. 

 

It's perfectly possible that the national number has gone up and your local number has gone down. The UKMODELSHOP info came from their first newsletter this year which reported a rise. 

[Ouroborus]

38 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

It's perfectly possible that the national number has gone up and your local number has gone down. The UKMODELSHOP info came from their first newsletter this year which reported a rise

 

Absolutely correct, as i put in the caveat, for reasons of time, i just did the first counties.  It may also be a different date range to that which you report.

[SamThomas]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

It's perfectly possible that the national number has gone up and your local number has gone down. The UKMODELSHOP info came from their first newsletter this year which reported a rise. 

Does the data from UKMS differenciate between between traditional model shops & outlets ?

 

I'm getting the impression that the number of traditional model shops has gone down but there has been an increase in outlets.

[Ouroborus]

19 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Does the data from UKMS differenciate between between traditional model shops & outlets ?

 

I'm getting the impression that the number of traditional model shops has gone down but there has been an increase in outlets.

 

No, it doesn't and i didn't notice many outlets there.  It would seem to list what you might call 'traditional' model shops.  I never saw the likes of Hobbycraft listed, thought Modelzone was.  The number of model railway shops is actually fewer than i wrote down here - the Ukmodelshops directory now breaks down what each model shop sells/doesn't sell - trains, RC, etc.  It didn't do that previously, but i kept them all in to allow a like for like comparison.    So for example in Gwent, whilst there are two listed model shops, the shop in Risca is nearly all RC, whilst Blaenavon is all trains. 

[Legend]

I see occasional Model Shops popping up , but I'm much more aware of the ones that have disappeared .  I think the market has largely switched on line .    I can pre empt Phil saying "show us the data " well In the Glasgow area in the late 70s/ early 80s we had Argyle Models , Scale Models Scotland , Railmail, A shop in Cambridge street (can't remember the name) as well as MacMillan Models on the outskirts I think it was Cathcart and Clarkston . Maybe even Pastimes on Maryhill Road , I cant remember when they set up . We had McKay Models in Paisley  and Hornby was available in John Menzies and some local toyshops .most carrying most if not the full range .  Go forward to 2022 and they are all gone and I do mean all - not a single survivor .    Uddingston Model Centre is in the outskirts but certainly does not carry the full range of railways . There was a very very small shop in Partick (to the extent that 2 customers at a time was a crowd) I'm not sure if it has survived pandemic. It had a few bits of trackwork and some trees when I visited. Hamleys is much scaled down and I dont think has Hornby.

 

So really we have gone from well provided to virtually zero . Surprising in a city that hosts Model Rail Scotland . Yes I know people come from far afield to support the show, but there are a lot of local clubs/interest too  . I know Edinburgh has two good model shops , so the Glasgow example is not necesserily typical , but think of Newcastle , I think its pretty much the same - no shops , so Glasgow maybe not untypical !

 

That doesnt look like a vibrant market to me .   I think what has happended is the market has drastically shrunk in numbers to a hard core of enthusiasts , but at the same time has got richer as we strive for ever more detailed and technically complex (light , sound , spinning fans now even smoke), so that hard core has been spending more , encouraging new niche manufacturers to come in .  At the same time the casual market has disappeared , not helped by the high cost barrier to entry that is catering for the hard core .The train set market appears much reduced .  Production runs must be much lower than they were even 20 years ago which is why some models sell out , so although it looks like there is demand , its for a very much lower number of much more expensive models .   And if the cost of living squeeze really hits then will the smaller market be resilient enough to sustain a decrease ?

 

In the midst of all this we have a manufacturer that is either underestimating demand or cannot have enough manufacturing capacity ,that seems to specialise in hacking off retailers and its end customers with a ridiculous Tier scheme that no one really understands and is ambiguous enough to give an excuse for any reason not to supply (just to attempt to get back on thread)

Edited April 19, 2022 by Legend

[Paddy]

Hi Folks,

 

I know this thread is about Hornby's tier system but it does feel a wee bit unfair that only their "prices" come in for examination. Prices have gone up for most suppliers of model railways and there are various reasons for this. The one thing I suspect is true for them all is that very little "profiteering" is going on. I also think that focussing on the "price" misses the point and one should really talk about "value". The definition of "value" will differ from person to person and covers almost all things in life. If price was our only concern then we would all drive around in Dacia Sanderos (other low cost vehicles are availabe) rather than paying "inflated prices" for Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc.

 

The bottom line is that what I may consider reasonable value for a model may be significantly different from others (could be higher or lower). Ultimately, the concensus seems to be that the UK model railway market wants highly detailed, very accurate and feature rich models. If this is true (and there seems to be little evidence to the contrary) then this will inevitably come at a higher price. If sufficient people believe that a model offers value for money then it will sell whatever its price and a profit will be made. If the contrary happens, and such models do not sell profitably then the manufacturers will have to review their business models.

 

This may mean, accepting a smaller market for high-end models which in turn will mean even higher prices. Again, not an issue if there are sufficient people who accept the value in the offering. The challenge is with higher prices, expectations grow and people will demand these models to be "perfect" or as near as possible. Shoddy workmanship and poor design will not be tollerated and customer service needs to be excellent when issues do occur. I am reminded of a story that an Audi salesman told me many years ago. At the time, the salesman was working for VW and they had a VW Golf advert on television where a chap was being driven mad by a squeak in the car. The tag line, was that the squeak was his partner's earring and not the wonderfully engineered and high quality (more expensive) Golf. The challenge was that, VW owners took the advert literally and according to the salesman the dealership was inundated with customers cars where every small issue was highlighted and expected to be fixed.

 

If there is a maximum price people are willing to pay for a model train and we exceed this then we may have to accept our cloth being cut accordingly. We may want all manner of details and features but this simply may not be possible at that price point. Models will have to become less complex to lower the price or the market really does become a toy for rich people (as it was in the days of Bassett Lowke etc.). The thing to remember though, is that even in the 1930s this created an opportunity for othese to enter the market. Hornby Dublo was considered revolutionary when launched and a few decades later, overpriced and undercut by Tri-ang. History may repeat itself...

 

If not, then I suppose this is where the second-hand market comes in and people's ability to model. Fortunately, in OO there have been many years where very good models have been released. These older releases may not offer all the "Bells and Whistles" of today's models but they are still very acceptable. One may have to compromise and look for the value in a Hornby Merchant Navy from the year 2000 rather than lusting after the 202x version.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do feel and understand the frustration that some people express over ever rising prices. These changes not only affect model railways but many other consumer products. Take a look at the price of white goods as an example. Many of us have become used to having what we want, when we want it at low prices. In large part, this has been made possible due to the ridiculously low manufacturing costs in China and gloabalisation. The "West" has been able to import deflation from these countries and mask the real structural issues within our own economies. All this has been funded by massive amounts of personal and governmental debt. The world is changing with some seasoned commentators predicting a move away from offshore production especially for strategic and tactical products/services. We may all have to accept that going forward the cost of product/services will rise and outstrip incomes resulting in a perceivable drop in living standards (which is a personal value again).

 

We live in interesting times... (and that is a huge understatement).

 

EDIT: I should have added that I am an N Gauge modeller so our back catalogue is somewhat limited compared to OO. 😉

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Paddy

[The Stationmaster]

On 19/04/2022 at 11:44, Legend said:

I see occasional Model Shops popping up , but I'm much more aware of the ones that have disappeared .  I think the market has largely switched on line .    I can pre empt Phil saying "show us the data " well In the Glasgow area in the late 70s/ early 80s we had Argyle Models , Scale Models Scotland , Railmail, A shop in Cambridge street (can't remember the name) as well as MacMillan Models on the outskirts I think it was Cathcart and Clarkston . Maybe even Pastimes on Maryhill Road , I cant remember when they set up . We had McKay Models in Paisley  and Hornby was available in John Menzies and some local toyshops .most carrying most if not the full range .  Go forward to 2022 and they are all gone and I do mean all - not a single survivor .    Uddingston Model Centre is in the outskirts but certainly does not carry the full range of railways . There was a very very small shop in Partick (to the extent that 2 customers at a time was a crowd) I'm not sure if it has survived pandemic. It had a few bits of trackwork and some trees when I visited. Hamleys is much scaled down and I dont think has Hornby.

 

So really we have gone from well provided to virtually zero . Surprising in a city that hosts Model Rail Scotland . Yes I know people come from far afield to support the show, but there are a lot of local clubs/interest too  . I know Edinburgh has two good model shops , so the Glasgow example is not necesserily typical , but think of Newcastle , I think its pretty much the same - no shops , so Glasgow maybe not untypical !

 

That doesnt look like a vibrant market to me .   I think what has happended is the market has drastically shrunk in numbers to a hard core of enthusiasts , but at the same time has got richer as we strive for ever more detailed and technically complex (light , sound , spinning fans now even smoke), so that hard core has been spending more , encouraging new niche manufacturers to come in .  At the same time the casual market has disappeared , not helped by the high cost barrier to entry that is catering for the hard core .The train set market appears much reduced .  Production runs must be much lower than they were even 20 years ago which is why some models sell out , so although it looks like there is demand , its for a very much lower number of much more expensive models .   And if the cost of living squeeze really hits then will the smaller market be resilient enough to sustain a decrease ?

 

In the midst of all this we have a manufacturer that is either underestimating demand or cannot have enough manufacturing capacity ,that seems to specialise in hacking off retailers and its end customers with a ridiculous Tier scheme that no one really understands and is ambiguous enough to give an excuse for any reason not to supply (just to attempt to get back on thread)

I think we need to see model shops, particularly model railway shops, in the much wider context of the way the entire 'High Street' has changed.   Today I received a cheque in the post but my local bank n branch closed a couple of months back - as far as they are concerned I need to travel, at my own expense of course, to their nearest branch roundly 10 miles away where car parking cost a small mint and the traffic delays are horrendous (I could of course go by trains - ona journey which takes anything between 40 minutes and an hour to get there.

 

The town where the bank branch is had a single shop selling model railways in the early 1950s, by 1960 it had three shops selling model railways (plus Christmas only in one department store) although one of them was  a wider ranging model shop while the third specialised more in woodworking hobbies rather than model railways.  Today - and for a several decades past - that town has no model shops except Hobbycraft and they no longer stock much in the way of r-t-r but do have loads of scenic stuff (the last time I looked).  I'm not sure if the WHS branch there has now reintroduced Hornby but when it did it was a minimal range and obviously didn't make economic use of floorspace.

 

So the supply situation has changed.  My nearest, and excellent, model railway shop is an hour's + drive away and does a wider range of modelling items as well as model railways.  It exists in a town which didn't have a model railway retailer until it opened.  The chap who opened that shop - now run - by his son - had originally looked for premises in our nearby large town but couldn't afford any shops there due to high rents.   A local model shop here which lasted about 15 years closed partially due to high rents despite doing a steady trade, including export customers, in expensive diecast cars from lesser known brands.

 

Simple message from all this - the 'High Street' has changed (and is still changing) and can be, especially in the south, a very expensive place to do business.  I live in a small town with an average local salary just over £28,800; semi-detached house prices are three times the national average in England, and social deprivation is at minimal levels on national scales.  So it isn't a 'poor' town yet we have over 20 empty shops and are now 188th in the national league table of vacant retail premises.   Model shops might well have reduced in numbers but they are not alone in that - the entire retail and local services landscape has changed enormously and continues to change.  BTW our local WHS stocks all the mainstream UK railway modelling magazines including MRJ.

 

Sorry to go off tiers but they too have impinged on the retail trade in many places by reducing what some retailers are able to obtain from  Hornby.

Edited April 20, 2022 by The Stationmaster
Correct a trypo

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

My nearest, and excellent, model railway shop is an hour's + drive away and does a wider range of modelling items as well as model railways.

 

Is it too controversial to suggest that in a world where people outside metropolitan areas, drive pretty much everywhere, an hours drive in a nice comfortable modern car, isn't the problem it used to be even 30 years ago? The average commute is 45 minutes, and I bet the school run isn't that much shorter.

[InterCity80s]

6 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Today I received a cheque in the post but my local bank n branch closed a couple of months back - as far as they are concerned I need to travel, at my own expense of course, to their nearest branch roundly 10 miles away where car parking cost a small mint and the traffic delays are horrendous (I could of course go by trains - ona journey which takes anything between 40 minutes and an hour to get there.

 

Totally off topic but I can pay cheques into my bank account using my bank's iPhone app. No need to visit a branch. Might be worth checking to see if your bank offers a similar facility?

[AY Mod]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The town where the bank branch is hada sinle sj hop

 

No wonder it's a long trek to pay a cheque in

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Is it too controversial to suggest that in a world where people outside metropolitan areas, drive pretty much everywhere, an hours drive in a nice comfortable modern car, isn't the problem it used to be even 30 years ago? The average commute is 45 minutes, and I bet the school run isn't that much shorter.

The post above describes value perfectly.

I value 2-3 hours time for a round trip higher, than the cost of a bag of track pins i’d be going to buy.

 

Job, school commute, shopping, family taxiing needs on a weekend etc… 4 hours for a day out to a model shop is hard to justify unfortunately, especially as I can do my shopping before bed and receive it before lunch next day. When I do go shopping, I go big, to make sure its worth my while.. whale hunting and I feast of the remains for a while.

 

If it weren't for online shopping I would not be in this hobby, as I just couldn't do it based on long distance retailer visits for trivial amounts, maybe when I retire ?

 

The trade off is the accessories… I have to plan it in advance and either order in a batch when it makes sense, piggy back load of a mail order or wait for a special event (show, shop visit etc).

 

Lets not forget online shopping isnt the evil one here, the decline of model shops started in the 1990’s with swapmeets…. Hundreds of them scattered over the country in the evenings where you could buy a new loco for £3-5 above trade, buy or sell your second hand enmass +/- a few quid in exchange.

It deprived the local shops of new revenue and cut off the supply of second hand… some were done before google existed.

 

Swapmeets saved the manufacturers as it was big business, loads of car boot businesses with no overheads and just a bill to pay at month end, it killed retail though. 

 

You could kind of say we are coming full circle in that anyone with a website can spin up a business for tooling a model with enough support and have china deliver the goods 2 years later… I know some ex-swapmeeters are in the comission business today.

 

Whos the bogey man when Amazon will sell me Hornby accessories, from their own stock on a sunday morning and deliver it to me before sunday dinner from a fulfillment centre a half dozen or so miles down the road ?

unfortunately the world is changing… my washing machine came online, as did the fridge and the oven too.. Currys didnt get a look into this debate either.

 I think model shops with strong local influences and mail order will be fine, but sadly as the lights go out, the flame dims… my area of South London had a ton of shops, and I believe it could support one now to, but its location, location location.. but that costs £’s.

 

One food for thought though is late night openings.. I did this with a retail outlet I worked in the 1990’s (largely because it was a preserved railway and we were there every Tues/Thus anyway), slow at first, but after a few months 7-10pm became as big enough business ( we could sell. 20-30 locos in an evening), especially if it was a new release, because of the convenience of after work and spare time… people did come from an hour away…

 

so maybe their is scope for an hours journey, personally my evenings are easier than my weekends for such activity… afterall thats what made swapmeets successful too… convenience for the time poor… but if I did go retail shopping in the evening it’d reduce my rmweb time !!!

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by adb968008

[Phil Parker]

I suspect a lot depends on whether you enjoy the shopping, and the sort of things you want to buy.

 

Big ticket boxes - online is fine and if someone is just cupboard stuffing, it makes sense to trawl the web for the cheapest deals.

 

However, I enjoy visiting a model shop. A couple of hours train ride to Hereford Model Centre is (to me) a pleasent way to spend a Saturday. I like travelling by train (pre-pandemic) and at least half an hour digging around the shop at the end of it is fun. When I look for somewhere to visit, the presence of a model shop will make me more likely to go. If I'm out and happen to spot one, I'm going in the door. But that's me, and I know I'm relatively unusual. I've read online how many people hate visiting a model shop, so their thoughts will be different.

 

I'm also a layout builder, so need bits and pieces that don't really make sense mail order (a single sheet of plastic, glue, paint etc.) , and interested in lots of disciplines, so browsing the shelves of plastic kits etc. also appeals.

 

Now I guess my style of modelling and interest in the hobby has a limited lifespan. Hopefully it will carry on for a few more years. Shows will help plug the gaps, but eventually, I expect, people like me will exit the hobby.

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I suspect a lot depends on whether you enjoy the shopping, and the sort of things you want to buy.

 

Big ticket boxes - online is fine and if someone is just cupboard stuffing, it makes sense to trawl the web for the cheapest deals.

 

However, I enjoy visiting a model shop. A couple of hours train ride to Hereford Model Centre is (to me) a pleasent way to spend a Saturday. I like travelling by train (pre-pandemic) and at least half an hour digging around the shop at the end of it is fun. When I look for somewhere to visit, the presence of a model shop will make me more likely to go. If I'm out and happen to spot one, I'm going in the door. But that's me, and I know I'm relatively unusual. I've read online how many people hate visiting a model shop, so their thoughts will be different.

 

I'm also a layout builder, so need bits and pieces that don't really make sense mail order (a single sheet of plastic, glue, paint etc.) , and interested in lots of disciplines, so browsing the shelves of plastic kits etc. also appeals.

 

Now I guess my style of modelling and interest in the hobby has a limited lifespan. Hopefully it will carry on for a few more years. Shows will help plug the gaps, but eventually, I expect, people like me will exit the hobby.

I totally agree, I love visiting shops, my father as a former rep must have taken me to more than 200 of them around the country. i know where some stores are, without even knowing their store names.. (i can say the same about fish and chip shops nationally too as they seemed to be a favourite past time of his too). But even the fish and chip shop is online, and just-eat will deliver, which I cant reconcile either.

 

My favourite used to be Friday night at Ronnies in Farnworth, Manchester. I’d rip on up there as soon as I could and  stayed past 8pm sometimes shooting the breeze. Used to get quite a following in store friday nights, with several others regularly turning up, especially as he would save his s/h for friday nights. Never came back empty handed. His back room was a gold mine of bits.

 

When a normal customer came in, they would get advice like they never had before, often without Ronnie even getting a look in, especially from one our more extrovert bunch… indeed the Hornby rep would phone in advance and ask if he was there (and look for the bike outside) often would wait a few minutes before entering the store to avoid the “feedback”… somethings never change.

 

Sadly it closed, circa 1997, and the store remains empty to this day, still with the shop signage in place and the shutters closed as if it were a sunday… its been like that for at least 20 years… when ever I drive that way, I give it a glance and think will it open on Monday, though now the paint brickwork is looking more faded and the shutter rusted outside… a bit like the rest of the area.

 

Why anyone with local a store, wouldn't want to go, I definitely don't get.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I suspect a lot depends on whether you enjoy the shopping, and the sort of things you want to buy.

 

Big ticket boxes - online is fine and if someone is just cupboard stuffing, it makes sense to trawl the web for the cheapest deals.

 

However, I enjoy visiting a model shop. A couple of hours train ride to Hereford Model Centre is (to me) a pleasent way to spend a Saturday. I like travelling by train (pre-pandemic) and at least half an hour digging around the shop at the end of it is fun. When I look for somewhere to visit, the presence of a model shop will make me more likely to go. If I'm out and happen to spot one, I'm going in the door. But that's me, and I know I'm relatively unusual. I've read online how many people hate visiting a model shop, so their thoughts will be different.

 

I'm also a layout builder, so need bits and pieces that don't really make sense mail order (a single sheet of plastic, glue, paint etc.) , and interested in lots of disciplines, so browsing the shelves of plastic kits etc. also appeals.

 

Now I guess my style of modelling and interest in the hobby has a limited lifespan. Hopefully it will carry on for a few more years. Shows will help plug the gaps, but eventually, I expect, people like me will exit the hobby.

I too love visiting shops, but with reference to the post above about the availability of time, rarely could I justify four hours for a model shop visit. Thankfully, I am lucky and have three good model shops not too far away. 
 

The availability of model shops is critical. To use an analogy, with Covid we switched to online food shopping and noticed that we rarely choose anything new, we now stick to the ingredients we need - we simply don’t see new offerings as we no longer wander round the supermarket aisles.
 

Online orders for models is the same, you don’t see new items as you browse in a very different manner, potentially costing new entrants their “in” to the business. 
 

Edit: As for your last comment, after you have had your good few years of still being able to browse model shops (and hopefully that is longer than expected) and as you put it, exit the hobby, others will replace you. My 15 year old loves browsing and my 11 year old is beginning to do so. It is not a dying tradition…
 

Roy

Edited April 19, 2022 by Roy Langridge

[Downer]

After living in France for three years, I can honestly say the only things I miss about Britain - other than friends - are the landscapes and the model shops. 

[SamThomas]

6 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Is it too controversial to suggest that in a world where people outside metropolitan areas, drive pretty much everywhere, an hours drive in a nice comfortable modern car, isn't the problem it used to be even 30 years ago? The average commute is 45 minutes, and I bet the school run isn't that much shorter.

I would prefer the 1990's experience - a drive in a car with real charactor (a BMW 635i or Astra GTE for example), less traffic, less idiots on the roads & easier parking when you get there.

 

Compared to a featureless eurobox that wants to over-ride you at every opportunity & has had the "feel" of the car engineered out of it, more traffic and less parking.

 

To me, its a no-brainer, but then again I'm a driver not simply an operator.

[The Stationmaster]

On 19/04/2022 at 14:09, InterCity80s said:

 

Totally off topic but I can pay cheques into my bank account using my bank's iPhone app. No need to visit a branch. Might be worth checking to see if your bank offers a similar facility?

1.  I haven't got an app machine (and don't need or want one and its associated expense) 

2. Speaking to the cashier in another local bank today I learnt that there is in any case a limit on the maximum amount on a cheque which may be paid in using an app (the limit is £500 for your info)  - and this cheque exceeds that amount.

3.  So I either-

a. Set off on the train, carefully avoiding the Crossrail overgrown UndergrounD trams,  to the nearest town with a branch where I will no doubt have to join a queue of customers from all the other closed branches in the area and who actually have no choice to go elsewhere,

or

b. I drive to my nearest local model shop - just over an hour away - and pop down the road to the Barclays branch there.  However this depends on picking one of the days when that branch is open and getting there before they close.  But if its anything like their branch got here the hours of opening they post online were probably written by Enid Blyton and were no guide at all (but I do have some Accurascale wagons to collect),

or

c. I open an account at another bank which has a branch locally which currently opens for most of the day on every day Monday - Friday (and which might hopefully have more interest in its retail customers than Barclays and thus keep open its branch here).

 

Losing a very local model shop - tiers or no tiers is one thing because usually an alternative can be found within a reasonable distance - and I don't regard an hour's trip in the car as 'unreasonable'.  But banking is rather different and i have no wish to start off on an expedition every time I need to pay-in a cheque.  And yes, my 'financial controller' does do the internet banking bit for me but there is no way that can be used to pay in a cheque.

 

Compared to this lot  tiers are almost trivial - unless you're a Hornby retailer

[SamThomas]

33 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

1.  I haven't got an app machine (and don't need or want one and its associated expense) 

2. Speaking to the cashier in another local bank today I learnt that there is in any case a limit on the maximum amount on a cheque which may be paid in using an app (the limit is £500 for your info)  - and this cheque exceeds that amount.

3.  So I either-

a. Set off on the train, carefully avoiding the Crossrail overgrown UndergrounD trams,  to the nearest town with a branch where I will no doubt have to join a queue of customers from all the other closed branches in the area and who actually have no choice to go elsewhere,

or

b. I drive to my nearest local model shop - just over an hour away - and pop down the road to the Barclays branch there.  However this depends on picking one of the days when that branch is open and getting there before they close.  But if its anything like their branch got here the hours of opening they post online were probably written by Enid Blyton and were no guide at all (but I do have some Accurascale wagons to collect),

or

c. I open an account at another bank which has a branch locally which currently opens for most of the day on every day Monday - Friday (and which might hopefully have more interest in its retail customers than Barclays and thus keep open its branch here).

 

Losing a very local model shop - tiers or no tiers is one thing because usually an alternative can be found within a reasonable distance - and I don't regard an hour's trip in the car as 'unreasonable'.  But banking is rather different and i have no wish to start off on an expedition every time I need to pay-in a cheque.  And yes, my 'financial controller' does do the internet banking bit for me but there is no way that can be used to pay in a cheque.

 

Compared to this lot  tiers are almost trivial - unless you're a Hornby retailer

All you need to do is to post the cheque to a branch of your bank with your account details & job done - really can't see where or why you have an issue.

[boxbrownie]

38 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

c. I open an account at another bank which has a branch locally which currently opens for most of the day on every day Monday - Friday (and which might hopefully have more interest in its retail customers than Barclays and thus keep open its branch here).

That won’t work either, I closed my account with NatWest when they closed our local branch. There was only one other bank in town…Barclays, so after a visit there and a chat with the “senior customer liaison” person I was absolutely assured there were no,plans at all to close the branch, I made it clear why I was changing and again was assured.

I changed account in September and in December there were posters on the door to say the branch was closing in February. 😡
 

Yes I was p155ed!

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

1.  I haven't got an app machine (and don't need or want one and its associated expense) 

2. Speaking to the cashier in another local bank today I learnt that there is in any case a limit on the maximum amount on a cheque which may be paid in using an app (the limit is £500 for your info)  - and this cheque exceeds that amount.

3.  So I either-

a. Set off on the train, carefully avoiding the Crossrail overgrown UndergrounD trams,  to the nearest town with a branch where I will no doubt have to join a queue of customers from all the other closed branches in the area and who actually have no choice to go elsewhere,

or

b. I drive to my nearest local model shop - just over an hour away - and pop down the road to the Barclays branch there.  However this depends on picking one of the days when that branch is open and getting there before they close.  But if its anything like their branch got here the hours of opening they post online were probably written by Enid Blyton and were no guide at all (but I do have some Accurascale wagons to collect),

or

c. I open an account at another bank which has a branch locally which currently opens for most of the day on every day Monday - Friday (and which might hopefully have more interest in its retail customers than Barclays and thus keep open its branch here).

 

Losing a very local model shop - tiers or no tiers is one thing because usually an alternative can be found within a reasonable distance - and I don't regard an hour's trip in the car as 'unreasonable'.  But banking is rather different and i have no wish to start off on an expedition every time I need to pay-in a cheque.  And yes, my 'financial controller' does do the internet banking bit for me but there is no way that can be used to pay in a cheque.

 

Compared to this lot  tiers are almost trivial - unless you're a Hornby retailer

 

In Spain, if you're paying anything in to your account it seems 11am is the cut off time, (at least at the banks I've had dealings with) so cue a massive scrum every morning, the Spanish have no concept of queueing!

 

Mike.

[bigherb]

You can pay most UK banks cheques in at the Post office.

[frobisher]

3 hours ago, SamThomas said:

All you need to do is to post the cheque to a branch of your bank with your account details & job done - really can't see where or why you have an issue.

 

Or even easier, just pay it in at the Post Office who'll do all the hard work for you once you've completed the paying in slip for your bank (which they will supply).

 

My Dad doesn't do apps, and now that he's living up with me here. his nearest HSBC branch is approximately 150 miles away including a ferry journey.  The PO was a godsend for paying his cheques in.

Edited April 20, 2022 by frobisher
missed bigherb's reply...