Hornby Tier System- An Update.

[MyRule1]

One consequence of Hornby ceasing to use wholesalers is that preserved railways lost their established route to stocking Hornby, so that. Is one shop window lost to the company. Oddly at the moment Oxford vehicles are still available through the same wholesaler.

[TomScrut]

7 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

One consequence of Hornby ceasing to use wholesalers is that preserved railways lost their established route to stocking Hornby, so that. Is one shop window lost to the company. Oddly at the moment Oxford vehicles are still available through the same wholesaler.

 

Don't they deal with Hornby etc. directly then, and if not then why not?

[cessna152towser]

7 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

I don't believe the gentleman said that Hornby told him it wasn't available, he says Someone Did and so he cancelled his order.

Correct.  I am grateful to that Someone because otherwise I would have waited longer, only for Hornby to eventually admit that they had oversold, by which time I would have missed the chance to buy from the retailer.

[rembrow]

I've decided to stop trying to  pre order items from Hornby's new announcements, as the third retailer I've used, in the last 3 years, has advised me that they have decided to stop taking pre orders for Hornby products. I had a long conversation with a really helpful person at Kernow Models yesterday, regarding one of my pre orders that has been delayed after being advised it was imminent, and accepting a revised price. This may have been mentioned before, but apparently due to the continued uncertainty of what volume of product they will receive and at what price, they are no longer going to advertise Hornby products when announced, but when they are received, which means no pre orders from them. 

Now Kernow is believed to be a Tier 1 retailer in Hornby's system, yet they are unable to satisfactorily indicate how many pre orders they can satisfy until close to release. I'm not sure if this, for Hornby, is an example of the law of unintended consequences, or is part of a plan to curtail pre ordering at their retail customers.

I don't intend to go down the direct ordering route, and will now wait to see what arrives and is available at my preferred retailer. This is likely to mean more orders go to other sources, as they seem to be able to manage both direct and retailer pre order stock expectations.

[Robin Brasher]

I think at the present state of the market for Hornby the best thing to do is to wait until their products come on the market and then choose the best retailer to buy them.

 

I have got caught out with the R60032 BR Conflat A.  I pre-ordered it around January 2021 from my local model shop which is in tier 2.  Now the container wagon is widely available from other retailers like Hattons, Cheltenham Model Centre and Peter's Spares but I have heard nothing from my local model shop so I assume that Hornby has not delivered them yet. I am keeping my order to try and keep good relations but I think that it is a two way process and the model railway shop should keep me informed if there has been a delay.

 

If Hornby runs out of stock before they deliver to my local model shop it may be a blessing in disguise because I am not sure if Hornby have made the Pedigree container in the correct shade of blue and the container is a planked one whereas the prototype container was probably made of plywood sheets. I think that my Tri-ang Pedigree container illustrated may be a more accurate model than the new one.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Robin Brasher
substituted new for old

[adb968008]

On 20/04/2022 at 18:20, The Stationmaster said:

1.  I haven't got an app machine (and don't need or want one and its associated expense) 

2. Speaking to the cashier in another local bank today I learnt that there is in any case a limit on the maximum amount on a cheque which may be paid in using an app (the limit is £500 for your info)  - and this cheque exceeds that amount.

3.  So I either-

a. Set off on the train, carefully avoiding the Crossrail overgrown UndergrounD trams,  to the nearest town with a branch where I will no doubt have to join a queue of customers from all the other closed branches in the area and who actually have no choice to go elsewhere,

or

b. I drive to my nearest local model shop - just over an hour away - and pop down the road to the Barclays branch there.  However this depends on picking one of the days when that branch is open and getting there before they close.  But if its anything like their branch got here the hours of opening they post online were probably written by Enid Blyton and were no guide at all (but I do have some Accurascale wagons to collect),

or

c. I open an account at another bank which has a branch locally which currently opens for most of the day on every day Monday - Friday (and which might hopefully have more interest in its retail customers than Barclays and thus keep open its branch here).

 

Losing a very local model shop - tiers or no tiers is one thing because usually an alternative can be found within a reasonable distance - and I don't regard an hour's trip in the car as 'unreasonable'.  But banking is rather different and i have no wish to start off on an expedition every time I need to pay-in a cheque.  And yes, my 'financial controller' does do the internet banking bit for me but there is no way that can be used to pay in a cheque.

 

Compared to this lot  tiers are almost trivial - unless you're a Hornby retailer

Fwiw I have a bank branch 2 miles away.

 

I have a cheque in my wallet now, been there since January.
 

Each time I goto that village, I walk past the bank, into the Butchers, bakers, veg shop etc. Get in my car drive home unpack.

Then I see that cheque in my wallet, think about a different branch 6 miles away and how its a pain to get to, and how I must get around to paying it in.

 

Someday my brain will kick in and remember.. my local bank is actually right next to the butchers….not in the other town… even worse, the butcher discounts the credit card fee if paying cash, and as I card everything I actually goto that bank to specifically withdraw cash  !!!

 

odd creature of habit.

Edited April 28, 2022 by adb968008

[meatloaf]

On 28/04/2022 at 12:42, adb968008 said:

Fwiw I have a bank branch 2 miles away.

 

I have a cheque in my wallet now, been there since January.
 

Each time I goto that village, I walk past the bank, into the Butchers, bakers, veg shop etc. Get in my car drive home unpack.

Then I see that cheque in my wallet, think about a different branch 6 miles away and how its a pain to get to, and how I must get around to paying it in.

 

Someday my brain will kick in and remember.. my local bank is actually right next to the butchers….not in the other town… even worse, the butcher discounts the credit card fee if paying cash, and as I card everything I actually goto that bank to specifically withdraw cash  !!!

 

odd creature of habit.

I work in a post office, if you have a local one you can pay cheques into most accounts at the post office :)

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, meatloaf said:

I work in a post office, if you have a local one you can pay cheques into most accounts at the post office :)

Thanks, we have PO counters, inside local shops.

They barely can handle mail, let alone anything else.

 

My point was more about the state of my brain though, I go past the bank nearly every week, yet I fail to join the dot of having a cheque to pay in.. for some reason I keep thinking the branch I need is further away (as its the one i was used to), indeed my true   two local branches closed 3 years ago, and both became Costa Coffee branches, fwiw my post office became apartments and the local petrol station was demolished and became a Sainsburys local.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by adb968008

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks, we have PO counters, inside local shops.

They barely can handle mail, let alone anything else.

 

My point was more about the state of my brain though, I go past the bank nearly every week, yet I fail to join the dot of having a cheque to pay in.. for some reason I keep thinking the branch I need is further away (as its the one i was used to), indeed my true   two local branches closed 3 years ago, and both became Costa Coffee branches, fwiw my post office became apartments and the local petrol station was demolished and became a Sainsburys local.

 

We have three “post offices” within local shops around here, and I have used them for everything from simple proof of posting slips to special delivery, Parcel Force and shock horror, paying in a cheque once.

 

Wrap your debit/credit card in the cheque….might remind you while your out 😉

Edited May 2, 2022 by boxbrownie

[The Stationmaster]

Still staying firmly off topic - - sorree -- I took the relatively complicated not entirely simple step of opening a personal account with a building society where we already have various other accounts and which has plenty of branches in our area.  Thus I avoided having to phone the bank for a supply of paying-in envelopes and paying-in slips and I now have an additional debit card allowing me to use my new personal account for similar purposes to my original personal account.  But, of course yet another PIN to remember (I hope) and yet another card to lose (I hope not). 

[Bishdurham]

In Canada the ATM machines take notes and cheques.  Just place them in the slot and the scanner looks at them counts them.  If there is a torn note it may throw it back at you.  At the end of the process it asks if you would like a photo of the cheque on the receipt.

[boxbrownie]

21 minutes ago, Bishdurham said:

In Canada the ATM machines take notes and cheques.  Just place them in the slot and the scanner looks at them counts them.  If there is a torn note it may throw it back at you.  At the end of the process it asks if you would like a photo of the cheque on the receipt.

We have paid in cheques in Banks at the ATM machines here in the U.K., I don’t know if the same facility is available at remote ATMs, never needed to try it.

[Vistisen]

30 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

We have paid in cheques in Banks at the ATM machines here in the U.K., I don’t know if the same facility is available at remote ATMs, never needed to try it.

Here in Denmark cheques ceased to be used back in 2017 (https://www.thelocal.dk/20161229/denmark-officially-kills-the-cheque/) Now even credit cards are on the way out. Almost everyone uses MOBILEPAY. Even pensioners. amongst the 60- to 70-year-olds it is used by 81% of the age group, and more than half of the over 70’s. It is especially used by small providers, like for example, stallholders at model railway shows :-)

No need for terminals,

No need for power,

No cash to be stolen

No chances for pick pockets

No need for receipts

Instant cash transfers

Very cheap rates even for small transfers

no physical contact and risk of Corona

What’s not to like? 

It works by the stallholder having a notice (including a QR code and or a number). I choose the item I want, open the app on my phone, type the number and the amount click transfer, about 2 seconds later the money is in the stallholders account and the app displays a recepit screen that I show the stall owner the screen, and the transaction is finished.

it is also great for children; they don't need cash that bullies can steal. If they need to buy something, a quick SMS to parents, *can you transfer £3 to me?’. the parents use mobile pay to transfer the funds to the child’s account, they then use the app to transfer it to the shop. 

Also, here it is used a lot by homeless people. Again, no need to carry cash, people can donate money to them with no risk. And because it does all go via bank accounts that are traceable (just instantly) you can also be more certain that the money you give them will not be used for less legal purchases.

 

[boxbrownie]

10 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

Here in Denmark cheques ceased to be used back in 2017 (https://www.thelocal.dk/20161229/denmark-officially-kills-the-cheque/) Now even credit cards are on the way out. Almost everyone uses MOBILEPAY. Even pensioners. amongst the 60- to 70-year-olds it is used by 81% of the age group, and more than half of the over 70’s. It is especially used by small providers, like for example, stallholders at model railway shows :-)

No need for terminals,

No need for power,

No cash to be stolen

No chances for pick pockets

No need for receipts

Instant cash transfers

Very cheap rates even for small transfers

no physical contact and risk of Corona

What’s not to like? 

It works by the stallholder having a notice (including a QR code and or a number). I choose the item I want, open the app on my phone, type the number and the amount click transfer, about 2 seconds later the money is in the stallholders account and the app displays a recepit screen that I show the stall owner the screen, and the transaction is finished.

it is also great for children; they don't need cash that bullies can steal. If they need to buy something, a quick SMS to parents, *can you transfer £3 to me?’. the parents use mobile pay to transfer the funds to the child’s account, they then use the app to transfer it to the shop. 

Also, here it is used a lot by homeless people. Again, no need to carry cash, people can donate money to them with no risk. And because it does all go via bank accounts that are traceable (just instantly) you can also be more certain that the money you give them will not be used for less legal purchases.

 

Like Apple Pay* then.

 

*and a few other “contactless” systems.

 

But of course that means that almost half of the over 70s have no way to pay easily and 19% of the 60-70 year olds, I thought Denmark was a more inclusive society 😉

[SamThomas]

19 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

Here in Denmark cheques ceased to be used back in 2017 (https://www.thelocal.dk/20161229/denmark-officially-kills-the-cheque/) Now even credit cards are on the way out. Almost everyone uses MOBILEPAY. Even pensioners. amongst the 60- to 70-year-olds it is used by 81% of the age group, and more than half of the over 70’s. It is especially used by small providers, like for example, stallholders at model railway shows :-)

No need for terminals,

No need for power,

No cash to be stolen

No chances for pick pockets

No need for receipts

Instant cash transfers

Very cheap rates even for small transfers

no physical contact and risk of Corona

What’s not to like? 

It works by the stallholder having a notice (including a QR code and or a number). I choose the item I want, open the app on my phone, type the number and the amount click transfer, about 2 seconds later the money is in the stallholders account and the app displays a recepit screen that I show the stall owner the screen, and the transaction is finished.

it is also great for children; they don't need cash that bullies can steal. If they need to buy something, a quick SMS to parents, *can you transfer £3 to me?’. the parents use mobile pay to transfer the funds to the child’s account, they then use the app to transfer it to the shop. 

Also, here it is used a lot by homeless people. Again, no need to carry cash, people can donate money to them with no risk. And because it does all go via bank accounts that are traceable (just instantly) you can also be more certain that the money you give them will not be used for less legal purchases.

 

Why should the providers of these systems keep getting a cut of all these transactions ? No creaming off when you use cash - if you are happy for some faceless company to take a cut everytime to make a transaction then fine.

 

What happens if your "device" has a flat battery/fails/gets lost/stolen - you could end up stranded or what if there is no Wi-Fi/Internet connection or the internet is down ?

 

Far, far too much reliance on technology for my liking.

 

Lets have a look ;

No need for terminals - terminals are not expensive.

No need for power - terminals are usually battery (a bit like a mobile phone.

No cash to be stolen - not an issue if you take care.

No chances for pick pockets - as above.

No need for receipts - receipts are required to return goods.

Instant cash transfers - I thought you said no cash.

Very cheap rates even for small transfers - transfer rates are cheap if you get a decent provider.

no physical contact and risk of Corona - better not handle the goods then.

What’s not to like? - most of it.

 

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Far, far too much reliance on technology for my liking.

 

Let's just leave payment methods and paying in out of the topic now.

[Bishdurham]

42 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Let's just leave payment methods and paying in out of the topic now.

What was the topic?  Asking for a friend!

[JohnR]

58 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Far, far too much reliance on technology for my liking.

 

 

I bet you're one of those people who bite the coins you get in your change as well!

[Vistisen]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

I bet you're one of those people who bite the coins you get in your change as well!

Ahh, I have always wondered what bitcoin was. now I know

[SamThomas]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Let's just leave payment methods and paying in out of the topic now.

Fair enough, as long as that applies to everyone.

[Robin Brasher]

It is one of the wonders of the RM that you can have a topic about the Hornby tier system and end up with a debate about cashing cheques at banks.  I wonder if admin keeps an eye on topics.

 

I have just had a bad experience of Hornby's tier system.

Approximately January 2021 ordered an R60032 BR Conflat A, Tri-ang Pedigree wagon, assuming it was an accurate model, from my local model shop. I did this to support the shop rather than ordering by mail order from Hattons.  At the time the shop was run by a very helpful manager.

 

21 April. R60032 widely available at Hattons, Cheltenham Models and other shops.

 

29 April R60032 available at local model shop.

 

30 April returned Conflat to local model shop as box had been damaged in transit probably between Hornby and model shop. Change in management of shop. Assistant unable to make refund or exchange without authority from supervisor who only comes in once every five days.

 

Meanwhile reviews on RM suggest that prototype was a darker shade of blue and had plywood sides rather than planked sides.

 

In retrospect I would have been better off if I had not pre-ordered the wagon but waited until the model had come out  with good reviews and then ordered from Hattons, Kernow or another retailer who had previously given good service.

 

[Robin Brasher]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Let's just leave payment methods and paying in out of the topic now.

I suggest that all the posts about cashing cheques etc should be deleted as it makes it difficult to look back at relevant posts.  In the past I have had to mark posts that provide useful and relevant information about a topic.

[Phil Parker]

18 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I wonder if admin keeps an eye on topics.

 

The admin has got better things to do than herd cats all the time. I had to ban someone at 3am today, so it's not like we don't keep an eye on stuff...

[Phil Parker]

20 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I have just had a bad experience of Hornby's tier system.

Approximately January 2021 ordered an R60032 BR Conflat A, Tri-ang Pedigree wagon, assuming it was an accurate model, from my local model shop. I did this to support the shop rather than ordering by mail order from Hattons.  At the time the shop was run by a very helpful manager.

 

21 April. R60032 widely available at Hattons, Cheltenham Models and other shops.

 

29 April R60032 available at local model shop.

 

30 April returned Conflat to local model shop as box had been damaged in transit probably between Hornby and model shop. Change in management of shop. Assistant unable to make refund or exchange without authority from supervisor who only comes in once every five days.

 

Meanwhile reviews on RM suggest that prototype was a darker shade of blue and had plywood sides rather than planked sides.

 

In retrospect I would have been better off if I had not pre-ordered the wagon but waited until the model had come out  with good reviews and then ordered from Hattons, Kernow or another retailer who had previously given good service.

 

And how is any of that about the Tiers system? Don't complain about people going off topic and then do so in a spectacular way yourself.

[Willie Whizz]

I never worry much about minor digressions on a thread; they are sometimes entertaining, sometimes informative, and often educational. A bit like the BBC was supposed to be, back in the day. 
 

“Within reason”, obviously. I don’t like to see a thread destroyed by a complete overwhelming of the original topic, nor by acrimony over the digression. 
 

But that’s why we have Moderators, bless ‘em. And why, having now had my two penn’orth of a digression about digressions, I shall now have the good sense and decency to shut up …