Parkside van kit help.

[Sweet pea]

Morning I'm hoping you can help me. I'm preparing to build a oo gauge Parkside PC76 BR VEA ex vanwide van with air brake & FAT19 suspension. The problem is with someone new to building models the instructions are not very good. So I was hoping you know where I could find a picture of the underneath of these vans so I have a clearer idea of where bits are.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Gordon A]

Try this website:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons

 

 

[Sweet pea]

4 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

Try this website:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons

 

 

Thanks Gordon great website but I really need a picture showing the underside of the van.

[41516]

Usual caveats about modelling a model, but there are good pictures from Bachmann's recent VEA about.

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/br-vea-van-br-railfreight-distribution-sector/38-882#mz-expanded-view-372936648700

 

 

https://azure.wgp-cdn.co.uk/app-world-of-railways/posts/BRMSpring2022BachmannVEAReview4.jpg

Edited July 17, 2022 by 41516

[Sweet pea]

13 minutes ago, 41516 said:

Usual caveats about modelling a model, but there are good pictures from Bachmann's recent VEA about.

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/br-vea-van-br-railfreight-distribution-sector/38-882#mz-expanded-view-372936648700

 

 

https://azure.wgp-cdn.co.uk/app-world-of-railways/posts/BRMSpring2022BachmannVEAReview4.jpg

Thanks for the links just what I was searching for. 

[DCB]

I have always had issues with getting the bodies and chassis  "Square," both horizontally, vertically and in plan view. Then when complete the chassis spreads and out pop the wheels.  My usual cure is a RTR chassis or part thereof, but if you are new to these kits set squares and a piece of dead flat thick plate glass are essential tools if you want a runner not a display cabinet model.

Also engineer it so the roof comes off so you can refit errant glazing.

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, DCB said:

I have always had issues with getting the bodies and chassis  "Square," both horizontally, vertically and in plan view. Then when complete the chassis spreads and out pop the wheels.  My usual cure is a RTR chassis or part thereof, but if you are new to these kits set squares and a piece of dead flat thick plate glass are essential tools if you want a runner not a display cabinet model.

Also engineer it so the roof comes off so you can refit errant glazing.

 

Immediately after placing the wheels in the chassis, AND WHILST THE CHASSIS / FLOOR JOINTS ARE STILL SOFT, place a small elastic band around the four axleguards, AND LEAVE THE CHASSIS ON ITS SIDE TO HARDEN OVERNIGHT.

 

Splayed axleguards are usually a result of impatience to see the model standing on its wheels.

 

CJI.

[Dunsignalling]

Initial tip. Many of the sole-bar/axle-guard parts have a moulding line along the top. Get rid of that before starting construction.

 

As well as checking the body parts go together square, make sure the axle-guards go on vertically in relation to the floor. I don't put the wheels in at that stage, preferring to leave the assembly to set fully; (24 hours minimum, at room temperature) If working in a chilly shed, bring it indoors overnight). Nothing will then "give" and I spring the wheels in gently.

 

I tend to build wagons in batches of 4-6, which reduces the temptation to rush things. 

 

Chassis-spread on plastic kit-built wagons can also be caused by adding too much weight. That is transmitted  through the tapered axle bearings and pushes the axle-boxes outwards.  If intending to add a load, reduce any  built-in weight to compensate. I aim for 40g or thereabouts on short wagons, 50-55 for LWB vans. 

 

John

Edited July 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[brossard]

I was just getting into detailing wagon underframes before switching to 0.  In my experience, kit underframe parts tend to be sparse and flimsy.

 

You should take a look at these:

 

https://tinyurl.com/yftw6hnm

 

It is fortunate for the hobby that Wizard picked these up after Mainly Trains closed.

 

Also, have a browse of the other wagon components.

 

Having a stock of 0.5 and 0.9 mm wire is also useful.

 

John

[The Johnster]

I think of Parkside as shake-the-box kits, forgetting that newbies may not have the same approach.  Instructions are written by people who know how it fits together because they designed if, and sometime things that are obvious to them are left to you to figure out for yourself.  Writing instructions that are clear to people who did not design the kit is an occult art, and not all kit manufacturers are as good as one would like them to be at it.  IMHO the old Airfix kit instructions were peerless, but even these were superceded many years ago for a more diagrammatic approach in the interests of the export (to non-English speaking countries) market.  A good running vehicle depends on a) building it square and with the wheels inline and all on the railhead, and b) ballasting it. 

 

A) can be achieved as follows.  The kit instructions begin with the bodyshell, and this must be dead square.  I use Legos to make square corner formers for the floor/end/side joins, and a Lego shop will sell you a plastic pot of bricks for £6 (praps it's gone up a bit now, I bought mine 2 years ago), about 4 inch diameter and 5 deep.  You can fill this with as many bricks of whatever shape and type as you like until you get to the top and the shop guy can't get any more in, and a variety of mostly normal and half-sized blocks with a few flat base peices and 45 and 30/60 degree roof peices will provide formers for pretty much all of your modelling needs, buildings as well as kit vans and opens.  They are also useful for temporary jigs, supports, and many other uses.  The pot then comes in handy as a, well, um, a pot...  Ok, enough of bigging up Lego, they don't need it...

 

You should have now built a body with a level floor and square vertical sides and ends.  The next stage is critical, not difficult but take a bit of time with dressing, preparing, and fettling  the solebar/W-iron pieces before finally gluing them into position.  Get rid of any flash or moulding ribs or pips, and make sure the glue has gone off properly before proceeding to the next stage.  You need a flat surface, and a sheet of glass is perfect for this because you can see gaps in the reflection at the surface.  The axleboxes, with any deformities on the bottom surface, should sit square on the piece of glass, without rocking even the tiniest amount.  When the wheel go in, they will do the same, but check that both sets are in line with each other.

 

B) ballasting is easy with vans, the ballast can be hidden inside the body, as it effectively can with opens if they are to run permanently with tarps over the loads.  The amount is a matter of debate; if in doubt, I reckon 20g is a good allround compromise, and as long as it is within the general ballpark of your RTR wagons you'll be ok.  If you're using tension lock or Kadee couplings, or even Sprat/Winkle types, the vehicle has to be heavy enough not to lifted as coupling takes place and to stay firmly on the rails when being propelled or hauled around tight curves (obviously, the more 'scale' your curves are the better in this respect!). 

 

Ballasting of opens, especially conflats and lowmacs/loriots, becomes more of a problem because there is nowhere to hide it if the vehicles are to run unloaded.  In fact I avoid lowmacs for this reason, and use RTR conflats and lowfits, which have separate chassis with space tooled in for the steel ballast piece.  On kits, the best place for the ballast is in the 'compartments; under the floor, but of course this compromises the detail.  Much of this cannot be seen in normal running anyway unless the wagon is upturned, and it is more likely to be upturned in normal running anyway if it is not properly ballasted; win-win, of a sort...  with these sorts of vehicles, I don't worry too much about how much they actually weigh, just try to get as much ballast in as possible without if showing too obviously.  Try and get your ballast on the floor or lower to keep the centre of gravity under control.

 

Ballast material and the glue that holds it in place must be chemically suitable for use with plastic especially if it is to be enclosed in a van body where any gases produced cannot be vented off.  I used to use 'Liquid Lead', which is not liquid or lead, held in place with pva, but this is apparently prone to swelling in confined spaces, and I now only use it under the floors in the 'compartments', fixed with Milliput or Blutac. 

 

I like Parksides and have several but prefer to use RTR if it is suitable.  They are great for introducing variety in XPO and steel minerals, but like many kits vehicles such as LNER sliding door vans have been replicated to a high standard with RTR items since the kits were first produced.  Five 79 kits are another good source of vehicles not yet available RTR; I have an LNER pigeon van 4-wheel B and an LMS 6-wheel CCT which are lovely models and run well (layout has minimum 30" radius, Peco Streamline medium turnouts).

Edited July 17, 2022 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

For ballasting open wagons that are intended to run empty, I was advised by a late friend to buy some 1mm lead sheet from Eileen's Emporium (he'd not found it anywhere else).

 

I cut a piece to fit inside the wagon, scribe it to look like a planked floor (if necessary) and stick it in.

 

Once the inside is painted and dirtied up, nobody notices that the wagon is a millimetre shallower than it should be....

 

John

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Ben Alder]

I have built dozens of Parkside kits over the years and can highly recommend them. File the tops of the solebars smooth as there is a moulding ridge on them and then glue one side on to the chassis without adding any body detail, making sure it is vertical. Leave overnight then add the other side and fit the wheels in place, making sure there is a small amount of sideplay. These days I use a wagon axle jig but for years relied on the kits accuracy and the eyeball for this.  I give it a quick test roll on the bench ten minutes or so after gluing to make sure it runs freely then leave it upside down on a bit of glass overnight again. If you find that a wheelset is too loose or tight the axleboxes can be gently tweaked but it has proved a rare occurence.

 

[turbos]

I built a couple of these in 2019, I agree with all the above advice, getting them running well is the main challenge. The instructions for the VEA kit aren’t the clearest but the information is available, also quite a few are preserved so it’s not to hard to get any prototype details.

I used Lanarkshire Models & Supplies for the buffers and coupling hook as I felt the ones in the kit didn’t quite look right.

[Il Grifone]

Ensure the floor is flat and the solebar/axleguard assemblies are square and vertical. Do not rely on the moulding lines being correct, as they often aren't. If using the standard pin point bushes and 26mm axles make sure the inside faces are 24mm apart. (This is advisable in any case and pad out as necessary.)

 

I always try to get the underframe running properly first and worry about the body afterwards.

 

We are discussing 'Parkside' here. but it applies to any make. (vintage K's kits with combined sides and axleguards are a different matter

Edited July 24, 2022 by Il Grifone
Forgot to save (again - distaff hassle!)

[57xx]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Ballast material and the glue that holds it in place must be chemically suitable for use with plastic especially if it is to be enclosed in a van body where any gases produced cannot be vented off. 

 

Yes it can. Simple solution, drill holes in the floor.

 

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I used to use 'Liquid Lead', which is not liquid or lead, held in place with pva, but this is apparently prone to swelling in confined spaces, 

 

No, the swelling is when using lead and certain types of PVA containing acetic acid (assuming you are referring to the product actually called Liquid Gravity). Non acidic PVA can apparently be used safely with lead, "liquid" or not.

[Il Grifone]

For vans my usual method or weighting is a pile of five or six 'penny' washers* held in place with a nut and bolt. I aim for roughly an ounce per wagon - a bit more for long wheelbase vehicles.

 

Open wagons (unless loaded) have to weighed under the floor. Here I use lead sheet, fived in place with a cage of plastic sheet to avoid the use of any sort of glue, which I have found to cause warping of the floor in the long term.

 

* As the name implies a large disc of metal with a small hole in the centre.

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Il Grifone said:

For vans my usual method or weighting is a pile of five or six 'penny' washers* held in place with a nut and bolt. I aim for roughly an ounce per wagon - a bit more for long wheelbase vehicles.

 

Open wagons (unless loaded) have to weighed under the floor. Here I use lead sheet, fived in place with a cage of plastic sheet to avoid the use of any sort of glue, which I have found to cause warping of the floor in the long term.

 

* As the name implies a large disc of metal with a small hole in the centre.

 

I have to say that I have literally hundreds of wagons with sheet roofing lead glued beneath the floor with copious applications of superglue; no warping whatsoever, even though some have been around since superglue was invented.

 

John Isherwood.

[37114]

7 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

For vans my usual method or weighting is a pile of five or six 'penny' washers* held in place with a nut and bolt. I aim for roughly an ounce per wagon - a bit more for long wheelbase vehicles.

 

Open wagons (unless loaded) have to weighed under the floor. Here I use lead sheet, fived in place with a cage of plastic sheet to avoid the use of any sort of glue, which I have found to cause warping of the floor in the long term.

 

* As the name implies a large disc of metal with a small hole in the centre.

I used to use actual 1p and 2p coins inside van bodies held in place by superglue, 8pence used to be good for 12t vans.

[Il Grifone]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have to say that I have literally hundreds of wagons with sheet roofing lead glued beneath the floor with copious applications of superglue; no warping whatsoever, even though some have been around since superglue was invented.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Once bitten, Twice shy!

To avoid a repetition I avoid glue of any kind. The cage is also easy to modify if necessary; glue tends to be permanent. (I find the possibility of modifying something tends to ensure that it doesn't need modifying.)

 

The washers are bought in bulk from a well known high street dealer (fill a bag for a couple of quid) (other suppliers are available) and come ready drilled in the centre. Defacing the Queen's coinage is supposedly a crime (debunked?), though I doubt that anyone would worry about a few 2p pieces in any case.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Il Grifone

[SM42]

I use all sorts of stuff for ballast. 

 

Ballast, that stuff that turns green/ blue glued inside vans. 

Liquid lead in a plastic box or trapped in the underfloor pockets made by any ribs by fitting a square of plastic over the top.

 

Old nails, bolts, nuts and washers. Tyre weights found in the road or scrounged when having the tyres changed.

Bits of lead saved from roofing projects, or even the old water pipes. 

I've only bought one load of liquid lead. It has lasted ages and still loads left.  Everything else I use is scrounged or free junk

 

Hiding it is easy in vans.

Glue fumes are released by making my vent vans ventilated, drilling a hole behind the ventilator hood or in the floor. 

 

Opens have the weight glued to the underfloor with  couple of plastic strip safety bars underneath just in case

 

A Parkside kit can, with practice,  be test rolling lookng like most of a wagon, within 20 -30 minutes, before being put aside for the glue to harden off. 

 

I always drill out the buffer bodies and fit metal buffer heads. 

 

Fitting complete cast buffers needs care as there is little room in the buffer beam for the 2mm hole to take the replacements spigot 

Why are cast buffers always moulded with a 2mm spigot?

 

One thing i would mention is that the plate wagon kit and derivatives will need the solebars piacked out a little as the locating bars on the floor I have found are a fraction  too narrow for free running wheels. 

 

You have started on a slippery slope of wagon building.

Soon you'll have built 20 identical kits that are all different. Enjoy

 

Andy

[cctransuk]

6 hours ago, SM42 said:

Why are cast buffers always moulded with a 2mm spigot?

 

'Cos it has to be big enough for the whitemetal to be poured in!

 

ABS buffers had a 2.3mm. spigot.

 

CJI.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, SM42 said:

Why are cast buffers always moulded with a 2mm spigot?

 

Not always, there are quite a number which aren't.

 

Mike.

[brossard]

I found the products from Lanarkshire Models to be excellent.  They don't (or didn't) ship to N. America though.

 

Another alternative for buffers is to get a pack of Slaters steel buffer heads and drill the plastic shanks as noted above.

 

For 4mm wagons that don't use prototype couplings, sprung buffers are kind of a waste of time IMO.

 

John

[Trog]

On 19/07/2022 at 13:11, Il Grifone said:

 

............

 

The washers are bought in bulk from a well known high street dealer (fill a bag for a couple of quid) (other suppliers are available) and come ready drilled in the centre. Defacing the Queen's coinage is supposedly a crime (debunked?), though I doubt that anyone would worry about a few 2p pieces in any case.

 

Drilling a hole in a 2p coin is actually a very good investment, as it turns it into ten pence worth of washer. No wonder no one wants to pay people in washers.

[cctransuk]

41 minutes ago, Trog said:

 

Drilling a hole in a 2p coin is actually a very good investment, as it turns it into ten pence worth of washer. No wonder no one wants to pay people in washers.

 

Anyone paying £0.10 for a washer needs their bumps felt!

 

CJI.