LNER Coronation Stock

[Market65]

18 minutes ago, trevor7598 said:

I notice on TES. the Hornby Dublo Royal Scot set has a composite coach in it,

is this a new tool or the all 3rd re-branded ? There was no composite in their last range

of LMS coaches.

Hi, trevor7598.  Having just enlarged the photo’ it is the all third rebranded.

 

Rob.

[trevor7598]

15 minutes ago, Market65 said:

Hi, trevor7598.  Having just enlarged the photo’ it is the all third rebranded.

 

Rob.

I thought so. A bit of a cheat considering what that set is likely to cost. Thanks.

[Johan DC]

Couldn't find the numbers on the recordrun set. Has anybody this information? Might do a regular and a record one, now with the dynamometer car rerun. 

[Ollie K]

24 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

Couldn't find the numbers on the recordrun set. Has anybody this information? Might do a regular and a record one, now with the dynamometer car rerun. 

The record run set is often referred to as the ‘spare’ set of streamlined stock kept in reserve if the regular Coronation, West Riding Limited or Silver Jubilee stock had a mechanical problem.

 

However, in Max Hoather’s invaluable and incredibly evocative photos from 03-07-1938, the shots taken from the train on the northbound run (as Mallard hauls the brake test special from the down slow to the down fast at Everton box) clearly show the Coronation lettering affixed to the sides of the carriages, indicating it was a Coronation set proper and not in fact the unlettered spare.

 

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8052664/hoather-collection-photographs

 

I’ve not seen definitive proof of the car numbers involved but it’s generally agreed the usual nine-car summer Coronation set was reduced to six cars: A-B, C-D, G-H and no ‘beavertail’ observation car.

 

If anyone has more information on the above, it’d be great to hear it! 

Edited October 28, 2022 by OliverBytham

[Hilux5972]

9 hours ago, Johan DC said:

In one of their vlogs, they already adressed  this problem. And in the Pullman and Coronation Scot coaches, they're not visible. So maybe wait till they are there?

Don’t bother. Some people just like to constantly have a go at Hornby no matter what and WestRiding seems to be one of them. 

[robertcwp]

Last weekend, I saw Hornby’s 3D printed test models for the new Coronation stock. Two twins were on display plus an observation car. They looked very good.

 

The twin-first model on display was in BR condition with valances removed.

 

Alone amongst the twins, the firsts had an extra door on each side but only one side of the model had the door. As you look from the outside, the extra door is always on the right-hand carriage (i.e. there is one extra door on each half of the twin). I did mention this to someone on the Hornby stand but he did not seem to know anything about the models. I did not have the chance to speak to Simon Kohler as he was in the TT room which was not generally accessible.

 

It’s possible that they have done the mock-up so that one side is original and the other side is altered although neither side had the valances. 

 

The additional doors are a bit of a minefield, not helped by errors in books and articles. All Coronation/West Riding/Spare set twins had one extra door added on one side of one carriage of the twin, except the twin firsts which had one on each side, and the two twins burned out in the Huntingdon fire, which was the reason the doors were added to the others. People look at photos of the twins and assume not all were done as no door is visible. This is not so, it's just that on the thirds, the door was on only one side.

 

Twin-FOs had the doors on one side of each vehicle such that the doors were on opposite sides of the train. Viewed from the outside, the additional door was visible on the right-hand vehicle. Each vehicle thereby lost two seats.

 

The BTO-TO twins and the RT-TO twins each had the extra door on one side of the TO (the side with the single seats, thereby losing two seats). The TO vehicles were laid out opposite ways round in terms of which side had the single seats so that on the BTO-TO twin with the brake to the left when viewed from the outside, there was no additional door visible, as shown in the photo of E1727/8E in LNER Carriages (Harris) page 70.

 

On the RT-TO twin with the RT on the left viewed from the outside, there was an extra door visible on the TO.

 

On the BTO-RT twin, the extra door was on the BTO on the side with the single seats only, so with the RT to the left and BTO to the right when viewed from the outside, you could see the extra door on the BTO.
 

Edited November 6, 2022 by robertcwp
I can't tell left from right!

[Coldgunner]

I'm wondering if I can make an 'accurate' record train then, or if its a compromise due to the variations stated.

[micklner]

15 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

I'm wondering if I can make an 'accurate' record train then, or if its a compromise due to the variations stated.

Doors were changed in BR period after a serious fire which destroyed one pair.

[MikeTrice]

Hornby are aware of the issue.

[Ollie K]

Decorated renders of the Coronation observation car and one of the twins have quietly popped up on Hornby’s website.

 

Looking forward to seeing more of how the articulated coach coupling and streamlined shroud have been engineered.

 

[Hilux5972]

Wow they look great

[5Dublo2]

8 hours ago, OliverBytham said:

Decorated renders of the Coronation observation car and one of the twins have quietly popped up on Hornby’s website.

 

Looks like they have matched the running number to the preserved one (1729) that is stored in Margate, instead of the number stated in the title of the model (1719)
 

[G-BOAF]

39 minutes ago, 5Dublo2 said:

Looks like they have matched the running number to the preserved one (1729) that is stored in Margate, instead of the number stated in the title of the model (1719)
 

Thank goodness!

 

Now to work out how to fit a coupling at the streamlined end for shunting etc

[Pint of Adnams]

Seems to me that some clarity is required as to which Coronation set (102 or 103) is being modelled and sold by Hornby and the condition (pre-war, immediate post-war, re-liveried into Crimson & Cream, additional door present).

If there is to be limited production and with pre-ordering necessary, the customer should know exactly what they are being sold...

[5Dublo2]

Hi all, hopefully someone here knows the answer: Can I clarify how the Coronation sets were used (before WWII)?

For instance were they always hauled by an A4 or did other loco classes sometimes haul them?
If they were always hauled by an A4 was it always one of the blue A4s with red wheels and the polished steel lettering on the tender & cab side, or were other loco liveries involved?

Thanks in advance


 

Edited December 20, 2022 by 5Dublo2

[Tiddles47]

1 hour ago, 5Dublo2 said:

Hi all, hopefully someone here knows the answer: Can I clarify how the Coronation sets were used (before WWII)?

For instance were they always hauled by an A4 or did other loco classes sometimes haul them?
If they were always hauled by an A4 was it always one of the blue A4s with red wheels and the polished steel lettering on the tender & cab side, or were other loco liveries involved?

Thanks in advance


 

Yes, there were 3 sets, (2 in use and 1 spare).  Always hauled by an A4 (unless failure occurred  in which case an A1 is A3 would substitute  or in 1 case an Atlantic or N2!). Mainly the Commonwealth A4’s were used (with the polished steel letters) but others were used on occasion. See pic for list 

The sets were used turn and turn about, (1 set up, 1 set down , then swap the next day) with the obs cars turned on turntables at the end of each trip, but they were only used in the summer months.  There’s a book called Streamlined Steam: Britains 1930’s Luxury Expresses (ISBN 017530171-3) that has lots of details. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Tiddles47

[5Dublo2]

31 minutes ago, Tiddles47 said:

Yes, there were 3 sets, (2 in use and 1 spare).  ...

Thanks Tiddles47 a very useful and detailed answer. 

[GeoffBird]

I alsohave this book and if youlook at the first entry for 1939 you can see that the train was hauled by 10000 from Grantham to Durham (where it failed!) and then by a G5 to Newcasthe.  So  a couple of interessting alternative locos for you-

[Tiddles47]

38 minutes ago, 5Dublo2 said:

Thanks Tiddles47 a very useful and detailed answer. 

Anytime. Just to add, the spare set was unlettered and was used for all 3 streamlined expresses if 1 was unavailable, so could be used on the Silver Jubilee, Coronation and West Riding. Like the Silver Jubilee, the West Riding service only had 1 set, and was identical externally, (apart from the lettering)

[5Dublo2]

43 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

I also have this book and if you look at the first entry for 1939 you can see that the train was hauled by 10000 from Grantham to Durham (where it failed!) and then by a G5 to Newcastle.  So  a couple of interesting alternative locos for you-

Especially as I already have the W1 and have a G5 on Pre-order

[guarded]

Interesting “Model World” last night because these and the Coronation Scot coaches featured.Simons very proud of them,and rightly so!If I was to win Euromillions tonight I would quite happily fund the rest of the train to be built.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by guarded

[GNR Dave]

So on the Hornby website these are listed as unavailable. Does this mean sold out or not yet available to pre-order.

[Ian Hargrave]

25 minutes ago, GNR Dave said:

So on the Hornby website these are listed as unavailable. Does this mean sold out or not yet available to pre-order.

They are now on sale at Hornby stockists and have been for a few weeks. What it means ,if you can trust Hornby’s website,is that there are none left in their warehouse.

[Johan DC]

28 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

They are now on sale at Hornby stockists and have been for a few weeks. What it means ,if you can trust Hornby’s website,is that there are none left in their warehouse.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The Coronation Scot (LMS) stock (Second run) are at the stockists, and on the Hornby website. The Coronation (LNER) are not yet for sale, pre-orders only. Ithink these are also sold out on pre-order, hence unavailable. 

Maybe some stockists have some pre-orders left?

 

[GNR Dave]

Yes, sorry I did mean the LNER ones. Thank for taking time to reply.