Perspex fronts to exhibition layouts

[Wheatley]

This is a bit like the Great Hand In The Sky debate I suppose. I don't mind it on exhibition layouts, obviously I'd rather it wasn't necessary but I can see why it sometimes is. 

 

I have it on my home layout, if shares the 6ft box room which is now my office, and it's there because its a squeeze to get through the door (note the removed handle !) and damage from passing elbows was getting a bit tiresome. I used 2mm acrylic, admittedly after a bad attack of "Ow much ?" whilst sliding the 40 quid sheet of 6mm back into the rack, and it's way too thin. I've cracked the nearest panel just by leaning back in my chair. But it fends off sleeves etc reasonably well, this is the longest the platform fence and signals have ever survived. It's screwed on for now but there is a plan involving piano hinges to make it removeable for operating and maintenance.

 

This the current view from my desk.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Wheatley

[toolongtoremember]

I really dislike barriers or perspex. On my layout I designed it with enough distractions on the front with cheaper items (Oxford Diecast cars) that the expensive/delicate stuff is never touched further back.  

 

Kids always grab the cars first and push them back and forth a bit but there's never really anything to break. 

[Steven B]

These things happen when you go out to play. Why not add the cost of a couple of packets of fresh scatter or static grass to your next exhibition expenses?

 

Steven B

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

These things happen when you go out to play. Why not add the cost of a couple of packets of fresh scatter or static grass to your next exhibition expenses?

 

Steven B

to throw at the anklebiters ?

[Paul H Vigor]

8 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As I said before, I borrow a club barrier. Our two main exhibition layouts have gone about things in different ways.

 

I borrow the Addison Road barrier which was professionally made - poles with a chain link chain strung between them - here it is being dismantled after our recent open day and I promise that that pose is for comedic purposes only - honest!

 

 

 

Our OO layout, Northwick, went a different and cheaper homemade route.

 

 

 

 

 

Jacob Marley:"The chains! The chains!"

[DCB]

It may be prohibitively expensive but a red button marked "Do not Push" connected to a car windscreen washer pump (12 volt) with a washer bottle filled with printer ink and a wide angle nozzle would be my #1 solution.

 

I had wondered whether exhibition layouts could have a wide viewing side scenic panel not used when at home which extends out and down towards the audience with the edge being the de facto barrier.  Angling it down would help wheelchair bound people see the action. Painting the edge with non drying paint and labelling it "Wet Paint" might help as well.   

 

[Chris M]

8 hours ago, Steven B said:

These things happen when you go out to play. Why not add the cost of a couple of packets of fresh scatter or static grass to your next exhibition expenses?

 

Steven B

If you take your layout onto the exhibition circuit you have to accept that the odd bit of repair work will be required. I would never add a bit to expenses to cover potential damage though. The worst damage I suffered was done by yours truly. Luckily I did this when re-assembling the layout back at home. 

 

In my experience most damage to layouts/stock comes from exhibitors themselves making mistakes (as above) rather than from the visiting public. For me the great thing about exhibiting is that I get the chance to play trains all day and have loads of chats with other people who like trains. I have some great conversations and some slightly strange conversations but it all makes for a good day or two. I accept that part of exhibiting will be the occasional bit of damage that needs repairing; its usually no big deal.

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Chris M

[shipbadger]

I'm a user of the dowel rods and cord barrier.  Yes the springy things are from door stops.  I went down this road when somebody deep in conversation in front of the layout actually rested their posterior on the baseboard!  I use a bright green cord and that seems to be sufficient to be visible and has been used for over 20 shows now.  I wouldn't consider exhibiting without it nowadays.  I think I should credit the Gravett's which is where I first saw the idea on their Ditchling Green layout.

[fulton]

This is the situation on the front of my layout, not sure how you could offer protection without some sort of Perspex, prototype location being modelled, the left track will not see trains, so no protection required, most of the damage to my layouts, has been caused during assembly, disassembly and transporting, not by the public at exhibitions. I did have a very fine bracket signal on one layout, whilst trying to open the roller shutter on my trailer, something had moved and was in the way, " I know just pull the shutter harder" end of signal!

Edited August 24, 2022 by fulton
correction

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Having thought about this a bit more,  I could see a situation arising during the coming months and beyond where exhibition managers turn around and say 'if YOU want barriers,  YOU bring them'. That will save exhibitions a significant amount of money (and work) in these difficult times. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Phil Parker]

12 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Having thought about this a bit more,  I could see a situation arising during the coming months and beyond where exhibition managers turn around and say 'if YOU want barriers,  YOU bring them'. That will save exhibitions a significant amount of money (and work) in these difficult times. 

 

Hardly. Barriers, for our club, mean an extra trip in the van hired for the show. Every layout bringing their own barriers pushes many from domestic car to hire van, pushing the expenses bill up as you're suddenly looking at another dozen van hires for the weekend.

[Phil Parker]

15 hours ago, Steven B said:

These things happen when you go out to play. Why not add the cost of a couple of packets of fresh scatter or static grass to your next exhibition expenses?

 

Steven B

 

Because that doesn't cover smashed buildings or rolling stock?

[brossard]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly. Barriers, for our club, mean an extra trip in the van hired for the show. Every layout bringing their own barriers pushes many from domestic car to hire van, pushing the expenses bill up as you're suddenly looking at another dozen van hires for the weekend.

 

Agree Phil.  On our outing last weekend we ended up loading 5 cars with all the components - great teamwork.  I would have liked to bring some step stools for the little ones but there was just no room.  So, a van hire may be in our future.

 

John

[TEAMYAKIMA]

43 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly. Barriers, for our club, mean an extra trip in the van hired for the show. Every layout bringing their own barriers pushes many from domestic car to hire van, pushing the expenses bill up as you're suddenly looking at another dozen van hires for the weekend.

 

TBH Phil, I think you have slightly misunderstood my meaning. When I say barriers, I don't mean great crash barriers like you might see at a football stadium, I mean anything that the layout owner chooses to use and for many it would be something like on Twickenham MRC's NORTHWICK layout as in this photo - easy and cheap to transport. Exhibition organisers are going to be under enormous pressure in the future what with fuel prices etc and so to cut out the cost of barriers would be of great benefit to them.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Vecchio]

Well, I use perspex fronts (and partially also sides) and I do not think they are disturbing. If somebody wants to take a photo for a magazine or so I am happy to take the screwdriver out and to remove them. Looking at all the fingerprints on the perspex after a show I can say they are not only small (means childrens) ones. For me it is mainly the overhead line system (and the signals) I want to protect.

 

20200214_202839 

[Chris M]

44 minutes ago, Vecchio said:

Well, I use perspex fronts (and partially also sides) and I do not think they are disturbing. If somebody wants to take a photo for a magazine or so I am happy to take the screwdriver out and to remove them. Looking at all the fingerprints on the perspex after a show I can say they are not only small (means childrens) ones. For me it is mainly the overhead line system (and the signals) I want to protect.

 

20200214_202839 

As an exhibition visitor I would find your perspex disturbing, to me it shows that you don't trust me to behave reasonably and don't really want to exhibit your work. I wouldn't bother to spend time watching the layout and would very quickly move on to a layout that was more friendly to paying customers.  If we get to a point where more than say 10% of layouts have perspex fronts I would stop going to exhibitions completely. The Northwick  solution is much better.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

TBH Phil, I think you have slightly misunderstood my meaning. When I say barriers, I don't mean great crash barriers like you might see at a football stadium, I mean anything that the layout owner chooses to use and for many it would be something like on Twickenham MRC's NORTHWICK layout as in this photo - easy and cheap to transport. Exhibition organisers are going to be under enormous pressure in the future what with fuel prices etc and so to cut out the cost of barriers would be of great benefit to them.

 

If the public is going to lean on the barriers, something I think is desirable, it means something a bit more solid than a bit of rope. No one, apart from you, has suggested the sort of metal fences seen at football grounds. However, even rope and poles mean more car space is required, which could tip the balance into hiring a van.

 

This is what our club has:

 

 

The legs are separate so they aren't difficult to move, and a whole exhibition-worth goes into a single van. Cost to build wasn't great, about the same as hiring metal cattle barriers for a year.

 

Exhibition organisers will be under pressure, but so will everyone else. Especially if insurance rates for shows rocket as people start claiming for damaged layouts, or the public claim for falling over badly designed crowd control systems out of the control of the organisers.

 

To be blunt, when I was exhibiting, I didn't accept if barriers weren't going to be provided most of the time. When I did, I took a couple of the club barriers, even if this then meant a van hire. I value the model I've spent years building too much. Others may feel differently.

[The Johnster]

Trying to think about this from the organiser’s/venue’s pov, barriers have an effect on the space provided between exhibits, and thus on safety; this would probably be a factor if exhibitors bring their own barriers and do not mention the extra space needed.  The smaller the venue, the tighter together a given number of exhibits and trade stands will be positioned, and the less space between them and the more vulnerable it will be to this.  
 

My mental health issues mean that I am prone to panic attacks in crowded confined locations, and in recent (pre-covid) years some shows I’ve been to have put me uncomfortably close to the unfenced precipice at the edge of my comfort zone despite going at Sunday lunchtime when things should be quiet.  Attended Cardiff show last w/e; big improvement (Sports Village, Ice Rink, down the bay) but of course more expensive; how much in real terms and how much down to inflation hard to say, but it looks as if the days of OAP concessions are as the snows of yesteryear; not surprising I suppose when you look at the target demographic!  I can’t, and don’t, expect organisers to cater to or even be aware of my particular issues of course; it’s up to me to manage them as best I can.  Cardiff show was spacious , properly ventilated, and uncrowded, at least when I went, and an absolute pleasure, importantly as it is the first such outing I’ve had since The Plague.  Good layouts too!
 

My personal preference is for barriers I can lean on to avoid being pushed forward, or smaller layouts operated from in front.  I don’t like perspex, especially on big layouts where one needs a wide viewing angle from one’s standpoint perspective. 

 

Running a show is a balancing act between many factors; cost, space, expected footfall, fire regs and much more.  I’m not sorry that I don’t have to do it…

Edited August 24, 2022 by The Johnster

[doilum]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly. Barriers, for our club, mean an extra trip in the van hired for the show. Every layout bringing their own barriers pushes many from domestic car to hire van, pushing the expenses bill up as you're suddenly looking at another dozen van hires for the weekend.

It depends on the type of barrier. Ours take my daughter's 7.5 ton horse box to its weight limit. These have to be handballed at each end by a decreasing membership with an average age in the mid 60,s and not getting younger. Whilst there are strong arguaments from the " like to lean and watch trains" brigade, the barriers are a perfect height on which to seat a tiring toddler who then proceeds to kick the facia to death. Personally I prefer the ribon barriers as once used in banks 

[tomparryharry]

If we take exhibitions one step further, how long will it be before head-up display (VR) becomes the accepted norm?  You pay your money (credit) and you're there as long as you want. Being looped in would allow you to converse with the operators. No need for barriers, or hop-ups for little Johnny to see the back of the display. Exhibition insurance is slashed/deleted. Catering is now local, and even drinks at the bar.  Cramped toilets with people 'missing the hole? Not any more! You can even take your viewer...

 

As I type this, I realise this has all been done before....

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Chris M said:

As an exhibition visitor I would find your perspex disturbing, to me it shows that you don't trust me to behave reasonably and don't really want to exhibit your work. I wouldn't bother to spend time watching the layout and would very quickly move on to a layout that was more friendly to paying customers.  If we get to a point where more than say 10% of layouts have perspex fronts I would stop going to exhibitions completely. The Northwick  solution is much better.

Entirely your choice whether tp visit an exhibition or watch a particular layout.  I tend to ignore some layouts because they don't appeal to me for a variety of reasons.  But I sympathise with exhibitors whose property and hard work is treated with due respect, and have no problems with screens that provide physical protection

[Mark Forrest]

Increasing the height of a layout is another way to discourage punters leaning on the layout.  My layouts have always had a track level of around 4'3" above ground level and I've had very few issues with people leaning on/into the layout. Kids generally need to be lifted up by a parent which adds a bit more control to the situation.  As I operate from the front, it's also easier to keep an eye on what's going on.

[RexAshton]

On 23/08/2022 at 15:16, Compound2632 said:

There needs to be something at the exhibition for younger children to play with. Our local club exhibition has a simple double circuit with Thomas etc. and more of those horrid Hornby 3-compartment 4-wheelers than you'd want to see in a lifetime. This provides a distraction from wanting to play with the "proper" layouts. 

Problem there is that often they then presume they can 'play' with every layout.

[Gilbert]

31 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

 As I operate from the front, it's also easier to keep an eye on what's going on.

Likewise - I've never had a really difficult situation...I find if I watch and engage with the viewers I don't get any prodding....

[Gilbert]

23 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Likewise - I've never had a really difficult situation...I find if I watch and engage with the viewers I don't get any prodding....

The cattle prod helps though...