Perspex fronts to exhibition layouts

[21C123]

We use a barrier like this, a square of ply and length of 25mm square timber screwed on each time with some nylon string between. A box of ply and mail bag of poles take up no space at all. 

 

 

 

The layout is a modular one, never assembled in the same order….

 

here in NZ I’ve never seen a lean on barrier used, lots of variations on the rope with poles or pole sticking out from the layout. 
 

Roger

[Chris M]

17 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly. Barriers, for our club, mean an extra trip in the van hired for the show. Every layout bringing their own barriers pushes many from domestic car to hire van, pushing the expenses bill up as you're suddenly looking at another dozen van hires for the weekend.

I'm sort of doing the opposite for the Stafford show (24 & 25 September). My layout is hitching a ride in the van laid on to carry the barriers. At least I know they will have barriers at this show! 

[009 micro modeller]

On 23/08/2022 at 15:06, The Johnster said:

I don’t like ‘do not touch’ notices; fully understand and sympathise with the need but it comes across as a bit precious.

Interestingly (in a full-sized railway museum but still relevant), the Isle of Wight Steam Railway has apparently recently changed the  slightly abrupt ‘KEEP OFF’ signs in their Train Story exhibition space to read ‘these exhibits are not a climbing frame, but you can find one next to the cafe’.

 

In a similar vein, I quite like it when people have ‘do not touch’ signs that are slightly humorous or have some link to the subject of the layout. I have a military-themed 009 layout with copies of the military signs that say ‘do not approach or touch any object or debris. It may explode and kill you’, and ‘caution quarry workings’ on a quarry layout. Another one that I saw on a layout at an exhibition was ‘danger 12000mV’ (with the ‘m’ being really small compared to the ‘V’).

 

On my first layout (the military one mentioned above) I did initially have Perspex around some parts of the layout but found that it was not particularly necessary and spoiled the effect slightly. On my very small micro layouts I think it would be even more intrusive. Barriers can also be an issue for very small layouts, depending on how the viewing distance and angle is affected and what height the layout is displayed at.

[ClaughtonSteve]

I knew there was a reason to continue my development of a Boche Buster to fire real ammunition!!!

[corneliuslundie]

An interesting discussion, When I lived in Hertfordshire, over 15 years ago now, the Chiltern Association had a set of barriers which all the local shows used. I don't remember ever going to a show where there were not barriers. And it was never seen a s a problem. These were "hard" barriers, not chains, if I remember correctly.

My small Sarn layout has never been exhibited but I have fixed a narrow Perspex sheet along the front simply to prevent ME from doing damage. As the layout slopes up from front to back it hides little. It is fixed with Velcro so can easily be removed if I need to do some work near the front of the layout. Admittedly the cost of one 4 ft length of Perspex was not crippling.

Someone mentioned the height of layouts. I  prefer layouts to be higher (I am over 6 ft) but I am awaiting the day when there is a formal complaint that a layout 4 ft 3 high is not disability friendly - probably not from anyone who has or wanted to attend the show. For children, those little standers are a good idea and I know some clubs hire them out (I would make it a deposit to discourage them being taken afterwards).

And to be honest, if there is no room for visitors AND barriers then I feel that the venue is too crowded. When the Newtown club has/had shows we always started with the visitor areas and worked from there as to what would fit in allowing space for barriers if the exhibitors brought them. 

Jonathan

[Solo]

I personally think Perspex screens look naff, they can give a well-modelled and presented railway the look of one of those toyshop train-sets from the '80s.  On the other hand I have often been quite shocked by just how intimate some people seem to want to get to the layouts, particularly those with (very) large cameras whose juggernaut-type lenses come precariously close to the landscape - and without the permission of the operators.  I'm only a couple of months into a small layout build and I know I'd be gutted and angry if dozens of hours of work - let alone hundreds - were destroyed by such.  I think that a free-standing barrier is obviously the best solution and some of those corded affairs as described above can actually be quite elegant.

But in the absence of that, might another solution be to look to the floor and put something in front of the layout that dissuades people from stepping too close?  Along the lines of those Toblerone thingies that you see on platform ends on the Big Railway, but in miniature.  These I think are called anti-cat spikes and you can get them on Amazon for a few quid, only a few inches high but you certainly can't stand on them.  Whether or not there'd be a Health & Safety issue regarding smaller humans becoming impaled I'm not sure.....

Oh and unless on 'official' business I also think massive cameras should be banned from exhibition halls.  Mobile Phones are so good nowadays that there's really no excuse and they often block the view for the rest of us - keep the battleships for the outdoors.

[Hal Nail]

On 25/08/2022 at 18:11, 009 micro modeller said:

In a similar vein, I quite like it when people have ‘do not touch’ signs that are slightly humorous

Perhaps a variation on my local butcher's "Please dont ask for credit, as a smack in the chops often offends"?

Edited August 29, 2022 by Hal Nail

[009 micro modeller]

12 hours ago, Solo said:

I personally think Perspex screens look naff, they can give a well-modelled and presented railway the look of one of those toyshop train-sets from the '80s.  On the other hand I have often been quite shocked by just how intimate some people seem to want to get to the layouts, particularly those with (very) large cameras whose juggernaut-type lenses come precariously close to the landscape - and without the permission of the operators.  I'm only a couple of months into a small layout build and I know I'd be gutted and angry if dozens of hours of work - let alone hundreds - were destroyed by such.  I think that a free-standing barrier is obviously the best solution and some of those corded affairs as described above can actually be quite elegant.

But in the absence of that, might another solution be to look to the floor and put something in front of the layout that dissuades people from stepping too close?  Along the lines of those Toblerone thingies that you see on platform ends on the Big Railway, but in miniature.  These I think are called anti-cat spikes and you can get them on Amazon for a few quid, only a few inches high but you certainly can't stand on them.  Whether or not there'd be a Health & Safety issue regarding smaller humans becoming impaled I'm not sure.....

Oh and unless on 'official' business I also think massive cameras should be banned from exhibition halls.  Mobile Phones are so good nowadays that there's really no excuse and they often block the view for the rest of us - keep the battleships for the outdoors.

The issue with these though is potentially that people could, not having seen them, stand on them, then trip and fall onto the layout.

 

I wonder whether layouts that have encased presentation, framing or more of a fascia are less likely to have problems, as it’s harder for people to reach onto the scenic section and easier to see if they do.

[Gilbert]

I normally have a projecting light fascia which may help....

[Chris M]

I still say people are worrying too much. It's very rare for a layout to be damaged by visitors to an exhibition.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Blimey this is a surprisingly contentious subject, although I can now see why, as...

 

...I'm afraid that as a keen photographer, I hate perspex fronts with a passion, and it really is a deal-breaker. Sorry! It's very intrusive and to be really blunt I think it ruins all the hard work the builder has put into the layout because you can't really see it properly! I love low-angle shots (both in terms of photography, and viewing) so that you can get a realistic perspective, but with perspex, you just can't do them.

In terms of damage, I agree with Chris M's post above. Despite having VERY fragile structures in the foreground that aren't even glued down, 99% of all damage to my layout has been done by myself - usually during take-down or whilst the layout is in transit.

 

You will of course get the occasional unsupervised kid (or adult!) who will prod, but the vast majority are sensible enough to know not to touch something that isn't theirs, and that looks delicate.

 

I think what helps is operating from the side/front, and also my protruding lighting pelmet with dangling sign (to be honest, it's a little more precarious than it should be, but it works just like those dangling low clearance bars you find in car parks!). I've never used barriers of any kind, and I go to exhibitions very well aware of the fact that damage may occur (although as I said, 99% of times it's damage that I've caused).

 

As others have also pointed out, placing delicate structures away from board edges is the number one thing you can do to stop damage. If need be, I would even go as far as suggesting a thin bolt-on extension piece with simple scenery (just grass with a hedge, or a road, car park, or similarly non-damagable section). You could even have a shelf with layout information on the front, which fulfills a similar purpose, whilst giving interesting information to visitors.

 

To be honest, my biggest problem at exhibitions is floors with a lot of 'give'! My layout rocks around like a boat because it's a small single board layout with a high centre of gravity!

Edited August 29, 2022 by SouthernRegionSteam
Typo! (+ more detail)

[ardbealach]

Has anyone else encountered the moving barriers syndrome at shows?   The organisers set out the barriers at say one metre from the layout front [around three feet in old money]  we have found that as the exhibition progresses the barriers move and end right up close to the layout.  This problem is more critical with a front operated layout and  operator access is required. 

 

My response to the problem is to wait until there is a derailment, or other minor mishap, when the audience usually loses interest and slips away.  We then reset the barriers back to the original three feet [or one metre in new money] position. [Alisdair] 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

20 minutes ago, SouthernRegionSteam said:

I'm afraid that as a keen photographer, I hate perspex fronts with a passion, and it really is a deal-breaker. Sorry! It's very intrusive and to be really blunt I think it ruins all the hard work the builder has put into the layout because you can't really see it properly! I love low-angle shots (both in terms of photography, and viewing) so that you can get a realistic perspective, but with perspex, you just can't do them. 

I totally agree 

 

12 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

Has anyone else encountered the moving barriers syndrome at shows?   The organisers set out the barriers at say one metre from the layout front [around three feet in old money]  we have found that as the exhibition progresses the barriers move and end right up close to the layout.  This problem is more critical with a front operated layout and  operator access is required. 

TBH I always thought that 18 inches was more the industry standard for conventional layouts, but I do think that the further away you stand from a layout the more realistic it looks as your viewing angle becomes more like real life - that's also the reason I like high layouts. 

[ardbealach]

8 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

TBH I always thought that 18 inches was more the industry standard for conventional layouts, but I do think that the further away you stand from a layout the more realistic it looks as your viewing angle becomes more like real life - that's also the reason I like high layouts. 

 I was guessing the distance, and maybe my one metre was a bit excessive.  But I agree that layouts are best viewed when set out at around four feet above floor level.  The viewer is then in the landscape and not in a hot air balloon.  I might upset a few when I say that N Gauge layouts always seem to me to be set out at a height of 700 - desk height - above floor level  which certainly dissuades me from spending time looking at them.  Why? [Alisdair]

[Reorte]

25 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

 I was guessing the distance, and maybe my one metre was a bit excessive.  But I agree that layouts are best viewed when set out at around four feet above floor level.  The viewer is then in the landscape and not in a hot air balloon.  I might upset a few when I say that N Gauge layouts always seem to me to be set out at a height of 700 - desk height - above floor level  which certainly dissuades me from spending time looking at them.  Why? [Alisdair]

 

Always feels a bit hot air balloonish to me, I'm 6'3" tall. I usually crouch down to get a good eye level view  because it can completely transform a layout.  There are layouts I've really looked forward to seeing only to be initially disappointed, but when crouching down a bit I remember why I wanted to see it in the first place. But it's not very comfortable. Obviously it's impractical (not to mention impossible to see for some people) to have a layout at my eye level, but I do appreciate a chair or stool so I can look at that angle for more than a couple of minutes.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, ardbealach said:

Has anyone else encountered the moving barriers syndrome at shows?   The organisers set out the barriers at say one metre from the layout front [around three feet in old money]  we have found that as the exhibition progresses the barriers move and end right up close to the layout.  This problem is more critical with a front operated layout and  operator access is required. 

The other part of this that worries me is the potential for the barrier itself to damage the layout, if accidentally pushed too close to it.

 

53 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

TBH I always thought that 18 inches was more the industry standard for conventional layouts, but I do think that the further away you stand from a layout the more realistic it looks as your viewing angle becomes more like real life - that's also the reason I like high layouts.

I tend to agree about high layouts, but on the other hand I am tall, yet still want my layouts to be able to be viewed by shorter people when they are exhibited. A detailed but very small layout may benefit from being viewed at a closer range than larger layouts, while some micro layouts are even designed for a specific viewing angle.

 

A further, admittedly small, subset of exhibition layouts are those that are designed with some kind of interactive element, such as the automatic layouts I’ve occasionally seen that are operated by the viewer pushing a button. Similarly, I have a tiny mine diorama built as a moving toy, with signage inviting visitors to turn a handle to manually winch a wagon up and down the mine incline on the end of a rope.

[Phatbob]

My layout information sheets state "barriers essential".  If the host organisation can't provide them, I'll turn down the invitation.  Simples.
I have enough to load into my car, carry, set-up and then pack away again to carted home again and stored somewhere in my house. 
Barriers are the host's problem IMHO.

[AY Mod]

4 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

The issue with these

 

My issue with these is that they've made stuff all difference to cats and pigeons getting over or sitting on the fence.

[brossard]

2 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

The other part of this that worries me is the potential for the barrier itself to damage the layout, if accidentally pushed too close to it.

 

I tend to agree about high layouts, but on the other hand I am tall, yet still want my layouts to be able to be viewed by shorter people when they are exhibited. A detailed but very small layout may benefit from being viewed at a closer range than larger layouts, while some micro layouts are even designed for a specific viewing angle.

 

A further, admittedly small, subset of exhibition layouts are those that are designed with some kind of interactive element, such as the automatic layouts I’ve occasionally seen that are operated by the viewer pushing a button. Similarly, I have a tiny mine diorama built as a moving toy, with signage inviting visitors to turn a handle to manually winch a wagon up and down the mine incline on the end of a rope.

 

On the subject of high layouts, they can be a nuisance to children (well parents really who must lift them up) and people in wheelchairs.  My layout is something over 4' high and is designed for the comfort of myself and the team.  We are all in our 60s and bending over a low layout is agonizing.

 

 

John

[009 micro modeller]

9 minutes ago, brossard said:

On the subject of high layouts, they can be a nuisance to children (well parents really who must lift them up) and people in wheelchairs. 

Exactly, and I don’t want to exclude either group from being able to enjoy viewing the layouts - disabled access is very important, and it’s also nice if younger visitors can see the layouts (though I do realise of course that, for some layouts, they have to be at a higher level for the operator’s own comfort). Parents lifting children to be able to see the layout also potentially increases the risk of stuff getting damaged.

 

An irritating thing for me, having mostly built micro layouts that rest on a table and don’t have their own legs, is when the tables provided at an exhibition are at an unusually low height. More recently, I’ve tried a slightly increased height - still low enough for children and wheelchair users to see at a reasonable level, but high enough that tall people don’t have to crouch in order to get a proper view.

[Free At Last]

Err.. excuse me sir, could you just....

 

[AY Mod]

53 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

Err.. excuse me sir, could you just....

 

He's overwhelmed at the variety of stock on the layout and came over a bit funny. ;)

[TheQ]

One part of my layout certainly will have perspex... it's the sea  / harbour scene both the surface and the vertical front will be so.

At the moment the front is not fitted,  at our recent club open day / show a child stuck her hands in below the surface and got spiked on the seaweed ( wire lengths with tea leaves glued on). She didn't do it again.. Maybe I should use wire instead of static grass on land..

 

Our show, includes the borrowing of small folding step stools for children.

 

Barriers, I could see show manager banning home built floor mounted barriers... It just needs someone to trip on the floor bit extending forward of the barrier  and someone could hit the hard tiled floor of a hall.. I think a weighted L foot could be safer..

 

Also many shows they carefully layout the hall by layout size.. if you wish to include barriers, you need to include that on your plans of the layout..

 

For the rest of my layout, 42 inches high at the front, 50 ish inches at the back.. It's built with sub modules attachable to the front, they are 10 inches wide and extend the scenery towards the viewer. They're not very strong, but keep the rolling stock from heading south. That means however they're not strong enough for weight bearing, so I have my doubts over springy thingys fixed to them...

 

Another show I went to a couple of years ago, a loco in a fiddle yard went missing!!! (not my layout)  just picked up by someone and into a pocket!!! fiddle yards certainly need protection.. 

 

My N gauge layout (8ft by 16ft) is single man run, and my eyes can't be everywhere. So some protection against stuff going missing is needed. In this layout's case, its the road vehicles and sheep wandering off the sub boards I'd be worried about.

[Allegheny1600]

Never mind being at an exhibition, what do you do when this goes on in the club room?

At right!

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

At right!

I was thinking about the bloke on the left.

 

"Wot, no barriers?"