GER W&U Train Packs

[RapidoCorbs]

23 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I know that First Class carriages had the crest, I'm not sure about composites that included a First Class element. John Watling is THE authority on GER coaches so I would trust his word.

 

It is sad to hear you did not get much assistance from the GERS as in my experience they are more than happy to advise. Not sure what went wrong there.

 

For the brown livery there are photos of both No.7 and No.8 wearing the crest. There are a couple of rather nice photos out there of the composite in maroon livery also with crest, but not many of the all-third.

[Bucoops]

58 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

For the brown livery there are photos of both No.7 and No.8 wearing the crest. There are a couple of rather nice photos out there of the composite in maroon livery also with crest, but not many of the all-third.

 

It was definitely different "rules" when they were brown to crimson. I'm just not entirely sure what the difference was! I just know it was specifically 1st class that received the crest, not sure about composites - and the tram stock may have been a special case anyway.

[Dungrange]

21 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

A van, a five plank or 7 plank open and a 10 ton brake van would be an excellent result.

 

I think you need to change that 'or' to an 'and'.😁 

 

I agree that would be an excellent result, but I'd hold out more hope of both a 5 and 7 plank open than I would for either a covered goods wagon or a 10 ton goods brake.  Since Oxford Rail chose the GER Diagram 72 covered goods wagon, that really only leaves Rapido with two options: a Diagram 15 or a Diagram 47.  I'd happily buy either or both.  However I don't think the Diagram 15 survived long enough to be of interest to the BR market and I suspect that the Diagram 47 would be perceived as too similar to the Oxford Rail model (even if the Rapido product would be better). I think the only thing in favour of Rapido tackling a Diagram 47 covered goods wagon, is that it has the same chassis as one of the cattle wagons (can't remember which diagram off hand).  That sort of fits with Rapido's strategy to date.

 

As for the goods brake, the 10 ton Diagram 1 vehicles were the most numerous type, but I suspect that the 20 ton Diagram 56 Goods brake would be more commercially viable, as these were produced until 1924 and therefore there were still quite a few of these around in BR days (which still seems to be a key market).  I don't think the same can be said for the 10 ton variants which I think became extant around nationalisation.  However, I'll happily buy several of whatever Rapido surprise us with.  My fingers are always crossed for a GER announcement.

[PaulG]

5 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

I think you need to change that 'or' to an 'and'.😁 

 

I agree that would be an excellent result, but I'd hold out more hope of both a 5 and 7 plank open than I would for either a covered goods wagon or a 10 ton goods brake.  Since Oxford Rail chose the GER Diagram 72 covered goods wagon, that really only leaves Rapido with two options: a Diagram 15 or a Diagram 47.  I'd happily buy either or both.  However I don't think the Diagram 15 survived long enough to be of interest to the BR market and I suspect that the Diagram 47 would be perceived as too similar to the Oxford Rail model (even if the Rapido product would be better). I think the only thing in favour of Rapido tackling a Diagram 47 covered goods wagon, is that it has the same chassis as one of the cattle wagons (can't remember which diagram off hand).  That sort of fits with Rapido's strategy to date.

 

As for the goods brake, the 10 ton Diagram 1 vehicles were the most numerous type, but I suspect that the 20 ton Diagram 56 Goods brake would be more commercially viable, as these were produced until 1924 and therefore there were still quite a few of these around in BR days (which still seems to be a key market).  I don't think the same can be said for the 10 ton variants which I think became extant around nationalisation.  However, I'll happily buy several of whatever Rapido surprise us with.  My fingers are always crossed for a GER announcement.

 

I put together this document sometime ago and issued to a few parties. All information from GERS members, primarily from John Watling articles. We took the view to make any item viable for a manufacturer, some stock should have lasted into BR days.

 

SuggestedGER Rolling Stock to model in 4mm scale (002).pdf

 

 

Edited January 15 by PaulG

[Pint of Adnams]

On 14/01/2024 at 10:09, rapidoandy said:

Sadly some societies are much more forthcoming than others.

 

There are at least two I have tried to deal with whom were obviously uninterested or wanted to look down their noses at us as I didn’t know the secret handshake or the exact mix of paint that Stratford works used in 1911 so this I must be not worthy of their attention. Sad - and likely to mean we won’t look at things made by the company they obviously so adore. Interestingly we have found help outside of the ‘official’ channels with other excepted.

 

Other specific groups and experts have bent over backwards and cannot be more helpful. So much so that when they have suggested new products and put packages and research materials together to show their idea we have taken it forward and you now all have their stuff on your layouts.

 

Its not easy being a manufacturer…

 

It's not easy being a member of the GERS (and LNERS) reading statements such as this, yet do not explain what sort of contact/communication was attempted and with whom.

 

The GERS as a Society and its members individually have a very good track record of assisting manufacturers when asked. From personal involvement such was the case of the GERS with the Hornby J15 and D16 Claud, is the case with the Accurascale Buckjumpers (although one of the project team is a GERS member), and was the case with the LNERS (on the initiative of Mike Trice) with the Hornby Gresley non-gangwayed stock, for which I provided Cambridge Custom Transfers details for the alternate numbering sheets issued at the time. I also undertook the original research and wrote the in-box booklet for Ellis Clark's O gauge LNER Thompsons. Paul G has been a constant source for manufacturers, and the problem from our side has typically been a lack of manufacturer interest in the GER; whilst GERS member 'Buckjumper' of this parish, quiet of late, is actively involved in providing information if not always through direct channels.

 

And you must be aware of the extent of the further prototype information provided in the various threads on RMWeb.

 

Most systems failures result from failures in communication - perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know in a PM what seems to have failed between Rapido and the GERS, so that it can be discussed with the 'management'? 

[rapidoandy]

I have already spoken to someone else in the society but I will drop you an email.

 

Andy

[Pint of Adnams]

On 15/01/2024 at 09:40, Bucoops said:

 

It was definitely different "rules" when they were brown to crimson. I'm just not entirely sure what the difference was! I just know it was specifically 1st class that received the crest, not sure about composites - and the tram stock may have been a special case anyway.

 

The Tram cars were definitely a 'special case', for there are several photographs that show that the 4-wheelers also had the crest applied - see various in Hawkins and Reeve, Wild Swan. It's possibly the all-Third bogie tramcar with crest is that nearest the camera in the image on p16, taken in 1911. Speculation can be unhelpful, and rules always have exceptions...

 

In fact, a further perusal of Hawkins and Reeves confirms the presence of the crest on No. 8 in the lower photograph on p50.

Edited January 17 by Pint of Adnams
Update

[Stevie]

Many thanks to all at Rapido trains for the replacement cowcatchers  they make a big difference when scaring stock around the yard .

 

Steve

[Caledonian]

Finally succumbed to getting a pre-1919 pack, and very pleased with it.

 

The cow-catcher on the front end of the engine wasn't a problem cos I already had a spare unperforated one from a Model Rail LNER engine, but a bit disappointed that there was no etched number plate to paste over the printed one.

 

Is there an established supplier of the right size and number [127] ? 

[NHY 581]

9 hours ago, Caledonian said:

Finally succumbed to getting a pre-1919 pack, and very pleased with it.

 

The cow-catcher on the front end of the engine wasn't a problem cos I already had a spare unperforated one from a Model Rail LNER engine, but a bit disappointed that there was no etched number plate to paste over the printed one.

 

Is there an established supplier of the right size and number [127] ? 

 

Narrow planet will do a custom plate but just be patient. 

 

Rob. 

[RapidoCorbs]

For my personal model I've ordered via Narrow Planet/Light Railway Stores.

[Caledonian]

Thanks Gents

 

Narrow Planet it is 👍

[Caledonian]

Another question - but changing the subject

 

The pack contains trams no.7 and no.8, of which 7 includes a First Class section

 

Was there a convention anent which end it went? On the ECML of course First Class is always at the King's Cross end whether leaving or arriving so's the higher priced passengers don't have so far to walk to board or leave the train

[Dungrange]

3 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

For my personal model I've ordered via Narrow Planet/Light Railway Stores.

 

How easy are they to paint?  I note that they are available unpainted (£4.25) or painted (£5.75).

 

https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/products/npp-421?_pos=1&_sid=c512ab260&_ss=r&variant=7040820215874

 

Also, I note that the models of both the pre- and post-1919 liveries have printed plates that give the build date as 1908.  I don't think that is correct for either model.  No 127 entered service in 1914 and No 125 entered service in 1921.  However, both numbers were previously carried by an earlier G15 (Y6) class tram.  Number 125 was built in 1891 and number 127 was built in 1892.

 

This therefore raises the question, when running numbers were reused, were new plates always cast, or were the old plates sometimes reused?  The earlier number 127 was withdrawn six months before the new number 127 took its place, but in the case of the former number 125, it was still running when new number 125 entered service, which is why the older G15 was renumbered to 0125 and had new plates cast.

[PaulRhB]

16 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

How easy are they to paint? 

Before removing from the fret paint with gloss and leave it to dry thoroughly. Then fine emery paper on a hard block rubbed over it to sand the paint off the raised surfaces leaving the gloss below. I hold it steady on the table with some double sided tape on the fret. Then you can use as is or varnish it if you want to keep bright brass finish. 
Not hard just takes time purely for the drying time. 

[Michael Hodgson]

49 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

Was there a convention anent which end it went? On the ECML of course First Class is always at the King's Cross end whether leaving or arriving so's the higher priced passengers don't have so far to walk to board or leave the train

 

... depending on whether it used the King Edward Bridge or the High Level to cross the Tyne on leaving Newcastle.

[Caledonian]

Yes, I remember sharing a compartment with a somewhat confused Bishop of Durham who had too hastily boarded the "wrong" end

[Eddie the dog]

Would like to add some magnetic couplings to my set, has anyone else tried this and can

provide the recommended lengths to use between tram and coach and each coach please ?

[Pint of Adnams]

On 28/02/2024 at 11:41, Dungrange said:

Also, I note that the models of both the pre- and post-1919 liveries have printed plates that give the build date as 1908.  I don't think that is correct for either model.  No 127 entered service in 1914 and No 125 entered service in 1921.  However, both numbers were previously carried by an earlier G15 (Y6) class tram.  Number 125 was built in 1891 and number 127 was built in 1892.

 

This therefore raises the question, when running numbers were reused, were new plates always cast, or were the old plates sometimes reused?  The earlier number 127 was withdrawn six months before the new number 127 took its place, but in the case of the former number 125, it was still running when new number 125 entered service, which is why the older G15 was renumbered to 0125 and had new plates cast.

It may not apply here but there was for a time at least a convention that a locomotive on reboilering received a new cast numberplate recording its 'rebuild', as described here on the GERS website:

[penultimate paragraph] Boilers (gersociety.org.uk)