London Milk Traffic

[steverabone]

As a foretaste of a major article about milk traffic to London in the 1960s and 1970s, written by David J. Hayes, which will be in the next issue of TRACTION (issue 272) we will be presenting here a table of train workings at Kensington Olympia in 1968. The first part of the article will cover the 1970s with the second part in TRACTION 273 will look at later developments and the tank wagons used.

 

Keep an eye on this post which will be updated when the magazine is published with a pdf which you can download and print out as a supplement to the article.

 

There will also be an additional train route map of one of the milk trains that you can also download.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by steverabone

[ModRXsouth]

Articles on milk trains to London are great news - looking forward to reading them plus the supplement. I have a personal interesting in the Wimbledon to Sutton line which featured the Express Dairy sidings at Morden South so hope that this location is mentioned.

I am following the rmweb thread under ‘Boxfies, Micro layouts & Dioramas’ as this currently features ‘South Moredon Dairy (a Morden South bottling plant inspired micro).’ Posts have mentioned the tanks, brakes and locomotives in the real life services.
I have also come across a website about Nine Elms shed - svsfilm.com. An entry states that the night milk train from Torrington to Morden “was worked by a Western Region crew with a Warship or Western class loco. A Nine Elms driver would conduct them from Clapham Junction to Morden and back via the main line.” It would be really incredible if photos exist of a Warship or Western at Morden South!

 

[David J Hayes]

IT is pleasing to see that my forthcoming London Milk article in TRACTION 272 & 273 has already sparked some welcome interest and I can confirm to "ModRXsouth" that Morden South is, indeed, mentioned in the feature, which mainly looks at the last decade of regular milk traffic on British Rail. I am very grateful to Stephen Rabone for arranging for the October 1968 Kensington Olympia timetable and mid-1970s routing map of an Acton Yard to St. Erth service to appear on this website (lack of space precluded their inclusion with the main article itself).

 

The said table provides a good insight of the intense milk operations that were centred on "Kenny-O" back in the day, with a tabulation of around 300 movements (including local Feeders and Light Engines) each week just for this traffic alone! A greatly scaled-down version of the table should hopefully appear with the article itself (together with other tabulations) and gives details of some 44 trunk milk train arrivals at Kensington Olympia each week from the main areas of supply. 

 

I very much hope that readers will find the article of interest and I welcome any corrections or other related comments via the TRACTION "Letters" section.

 

Cheers. 

 

David J. Hayes. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by David J Hayes

[steverabone]

TRACTION 272 is published on 30th September and I expect to upload the table and route map a few days before that.

 

Stephen Rabone

[Covkid]

Great choice David Hayes and Stephen Rabone. 

 

I was fascinated to learn of the Shropshire milk movements for the short time they were diesel hauled in the later 1960s. I believe the milk was loaded at Dorrington but possibly tripped to Shrewsbury where the train started. From research by Mike Hollick the train may have been diagrammed a "class 43" but also appears to have been class 40 hauled.  I believe it was routed from Wolverhampton over the Stour Valley and New St and picked up at Exchange sidings (Proof House Jn) possibly also at Coventry.

 

I am sure David will have covered this anyway and am really looking forward to this and the following editions

[cctransuk]

For quite a number of years, there was regular mention in the model railway press of a forthcoming, definitive book concerning milk tank wagons and their traffic.

 

The author regularly responded to queries about the subject, and assured readers that the book, when published, would answer all such questions.

 

The book, to the best of my knowledge, never appeared; and I'm afraid that I cannot now recall the name of its author.

 

Does anyone else recall this prospective book; know the name of the author; or have any information as to the fate of what would have been an invaluable modelling source?

 

John Isherwood.

[Harlequin]

The resident milk traffic expert on RMWeb is @Karhedron.

 

[David J Hayes]

IN response to "Covkid" and based on the limited information I have to hand, the Shrewsbury to London milk service was electric-hauled from Wolverhampton High Level and travelled via Bescot, Aston and Stechford. It was reported in certain mags of the time that it was, indeed, booked for "Warship" haulage to Wolverhampton.

 

It's possible that it may have run via the Stour Valley and Birmingham New Street at some point, calling at Exchange Sidings and Coventry, as you suggest, but I don't have such details. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think such workings between Shropshire and the capital may have travelled via Birmingham Snow Hill during in the steam era.

 

There were also milk trains from Shrewsbury to Swindon, which ran via Bescot, Soho Road and the Stourbridge Extension, and in the late 1970s there were movements of milk between Swindon and Carlisle, which were electric-hauled from Bescot. The empties from Carlisle were electric-hauled to Bescot and I have seen images of Class 40's working the diesel-leg southwards through Worcestershire. 

 

Cheers.

 

David J. Hayes.

 

PS: By the way "Covkid", good to know you're looking forward to London Milk. I also hope that you (and others) enjoyed T-Four-Two in TRACTION 270 & 271. Cheers.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by David J Hayes

[Ramblin Rich]

37 minutes ago, David J Hayes said:

PS: By the way "Covkid", good to know you're looking forward to London Milk. I also hope that you (and others) enjoyed T-Four-Two in TRACTION 270 & 271. Cheers. 

I certainly did!

One of the huge benefits of RMweb Gold is getting access to the Traction archive back to 2010. I've really enjoyed searching out the articles on Black Country freight, T-Four-Two being the latest in a line of inspiring articles. Seriously thinking of a small layout based the Pensnett / Langley Green traffic...

[David J Hayes]

MANY thanks, "Ramblin Rich", and very much appreciated. I hope you (and others) enjoy the other articles of mine pending use in TRACTION as and when they appear. I am mindful that certain articles of mine may be of interest to railway modellers, such as London Milk, and have purposely "penned" several features with the modeller in mind for potential use in the time portal that is TRACTION, so watch this space.....   

 

Not being a regular commentator on the RMWeb, I apologize in advance if I'm breaking any rules here, but I have also prepared a couple of PowerPoint presentations based on a couple of articles of mine that have appeared in past issues of TRACTION. One is about the West London Line (WLL), the other about Kent Coal.

 

The WLL presentation mainly focusses on the late 1960s and 1970s when the line was busy with numerous freights, milk traffic and Motorail services. Kent Coal is also a post-steam-era subject, although both do include a modicum of steam imagery, plus a few other bits and bobs, which I hope adds further interest to the presentations plus a little humour.

 

I also have a presentation about Black Country Freight (I live in Wednesbury), but I shall be giving this a "re-work" for possible future use, hopefully in 2023.

 

For anyone reading this who might be interested and live in the Shrewsbury, Stafford or Wolverhampton areas, I shall be giving talks/presentations during October 2022. Details are as follows:

 

Wednesday 5th at the Amasal Sports & Social Club, St. Albans Road Industrial Estate, Stafford, for the Stafford Railway Society.

Subject: Kent Coal.

 

Tuesday 11th at the Parish Rooms, Codsall, for the St. Nicholas Railway Circle.

Subject: West London Line - Late 1960s & 1970s.

 

Thursday 13th at The Gateway Education & Arts Centre, Shrewsbury, for the Shropshire Railway Society.

Subject: West London Line - Late 1960s & 1970s.

 

Wednesday 19th at the Royal Oak pub, Gnosall, Staffordshire.

Subject: Kent Coal. 

 

Talks start around 7pm, last approximately 2-hours and include an intermission. A small fee (normally £2 or £3) is payable on the door. I very much look forward to meeting you if you can make it.

 

If any railway groups or societies would be interested in me giving a presentation, then please get in touch. 

 

Cheers.

 

David J. Hayes.

 

davidjhayes126@yahoo.co.uk

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by David J Hayes

[St Enodoc]

On 12/09/2022 at 18:53, cctransuk said:

For quite a number of years, there was regular mention in the model railway press of a forthcoming, definitive book concerning milk tank wagons and their traffic.

 

The author regularly responded to queries about the subject, and assured readers that the book, when published, would answer all such questions.

 

The book, to the best of my knowledge, never appeared; and I'm afraid that I cannot now recall the name of its author.

 

Does anyone else recall this prospective book; know the name of the author; or have any information as to the fate of what would have been an invaluable modelling source?

 

John Isherwood.

That might have been my former colleague, the late Glen Woods.

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That might have been my former colleague, the late Glen Woods.

 

Indeed - that name does ring a bell.

 

Glen must have amassed a huge volume of research material, judging from the information that he gave on the internet, etc. - do you know if any of it survived?

 

John Isherwood.

[St Enodoc]

Just now, cctransuk said:

 

Indeed - that name does ring a bell.

 

Glen must have amassed a huge volume of research material, judging from the information that he gave on the internet, etc. - do you know if any of it survived?

 

John Isherwood.

I can't be certain but I'm sure others would know. He was a member of several special-interest groups, although I can't recall precisely which.

[Not Jeremy]

Wild Swan have a book on milk traffic in the very advanced stages of preparation.

 

Entitled "Milk On The Rails", it is written by Matt Pinto, "Karhedron" of this parish, and contains a wealth of information and images on the subject of milk traffic up until its demise. Matt has been researching the subject for a good number of years and has uncovered a lot of fascinating information from a wide range of sources.

 

I know that Matt was in touch with Glen, and we certainly have some good information and images in the book that have come from that source.

 

Matt may wish to comment further on this aspect, I will leave that to him as he had the contact with Glen Woods, whose loss was very sad indeed. Glen had talked about doing a book, so I would think that this may well be what is being remembered on this thread.

 

The new book's publication date is "as soon as possible".

 

Given Wild Swan's other commitments (not least the new book on the related subject of GW Siphons from John Lewis) publication may just creep into the early part of next year.

 

But it is definitely coming!

 

Simon

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I can't be certain but I'm sure others would know. He was a member of several special-interest groups, although I can't recall precisely which.

 

A quick Google found this : -

 

Glen's erudite comments are an example of the vast store of knowledge that he clearly possessed.

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Wild Swan have a book on milk traffic in the very advanced stages of preparation.

 

Entitled "Milk On The Rails", it is written by Matt Pinto, "Karhedron" of this parish, and contains a wealth of information and images on the subject of milk traffic up until its demise. Matt has been researching the subject for a good number of years and has uncovered a lot of fascinating information from a wide range of sources.

 

I know that Matt was in touch with Glen, and we certainly have some good information and images in the book that have come from that source.

 

Matt may wish to comment further on this aspect, I will leave that to him as he had the contact with Glen Woods, whose loss was very sad indeed. Glen had talked about doing a book, so I would think that this may well be what is being remembered on this thread.

 

The new book's publication date is "as soon as possible".

 

Given Wild Swan's other commitments (not least the new book on the related subject of GW Siphons from John Lewis) publication may just creep into the early part of next year.

 

But it is definitely coming!

 

Simon

 

That IS good news!

 

Please post here an announcement of publication for this long-awaited tome.

 

Thanks in anticipation,

John Isherwood.

[Oldddudders]

28 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Indeed - that name does ring a bell.

 

Glen must have amassed a huge volume of research material, judging from the information that he gave on the internet, etc. - do you know if any of it survived?

I certainly valued his substantial, factual yet humble contributions on SEmG. A knowledgeable but modest man, one felt. Until St E posted an honourable mention on RMweb a while back, I had no idea he was part of the Brighton T&RS team. 

[cctransuk]

An interesting post from Paul Bartlett here - fourth post down.

 

John Isherwood.

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

I know that Matt was in touch with Glen, and we certainly have some good information and images in the book that have come from that source.

 

Matt may wish to comment further on this aspect, I will leave that to him as he had the contact with Glen Woods, whose loss was very sad indeed. Glen had talked about doing a book, so I would think that this may well be what is being remembered on this thread.

 

Yes, Glen was kind enough to share a lot of his research on SR milk traffic for me to include in the forthcoming book. He was always very pleasant to chat to and happy to share his considerable knowledge with anyone who was interested.

 

I am looking forward to these forthcoming articles very much. One thing I have learned during my research is that there is always more to learn. Just when you think you understand a subject, you discover some surprising new fact that kicks off a whole fresh line of research.

[Karhedron]

On 12/09/2022 at 16:12, David J Hayes said:

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think such workings between Shropshire and the capital may have travelled via Birmingham Snow Hill during in the steam era.

 

You are quite correct. There was a regular flow from the IMS creamery at Dorrington the Rossmore Road bottling plant at Marylebone until the 1960s. IMS seems to have ceased operation somewhere around 1950 and I think the Dorrington creamery passed into Unigate's hands.

[David J Hayes]

THANK you, "Karhedron", for the confirmation and additional interesting details.

 

I'm pleased that you're looking forward to my two-part London Milk feature in TRACTION 272 & 273. I hope I've done the subject matter justice and that you also find the accompanying maps and tabulations of interest, too. There should, hopefully, be a nice shot on the front cover of issue 272 containing Part One of the feature.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, the article mainly covers the last decade of milk traffic on British Rail and I welcome any corrections or other related comments via the TRACTION "Letters" section.

 

I wish you well with your forthcoming book. I'm sure it will be very popular and sought after.

 

Cheers.

 

David J. Hayes. 

 

 

[steverabone]

The timetable for Milk Traffic at Kensington Olympia has now been added to a new thread. Click here to go to that page

Edited September 23, 2022 by steverabone

[ModRXsouth]

Looking forward to the Traction articles, plus the book in due course. Any confirmation on the mention of Warship and Western diesels at Morden South on its milk trains?

[MyRule1]

I have always been puzzled by the use of the term "milk train" in popular culture to refer to early morning passenger trains. Any ideas about where this usage came from, were there ever milk trains to/from London termini?

[jimwal]

4 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

I have always been puzzled by the use of the term "milk train" in popular culture to refer to early morning passenger trains. Any ideas about where this usage came from, were there ever milk trains to/from London termini?

 

If the trains discussed here were formed of milk tank wagons and a brake van then they are clearly not passenger trains. 

They would be signalled by the relevent bell code for pereshables or parcels trains, usually class 3 or 4.

Passenger trains are class 1 or 2. 

Any passenger train conveying parcel vans, horse boxes, milk tanks or fitted goods wagons is still signallled as a passenger train.

Mixed trains ran only where authorised may contain unfitted vehicles.