SR Banana Vans.

[41516]

12 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

They look like the original style blocks to me

 

Quite possibly, although they don't look the right shape to me - perhaps due to the not-brilliant photo. I've messed around with brightness and contrast here.  Shoes attached from the top,  but no hole beneath the yoke to allow the shoe to be reversed, so not RCH pattern?

 

 

12 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Oh for ABS accessories !

 

We are equipped...

 

 

For amusement, Masokits vs ABS vs Southern Wagons Vol4

 

 

[Trofimow]

   These have been seen on here in a previous thread, my first attempts at 3D printing bodgery.

 

This one is a one piece print, and I used the chassis and doors from this bashed with the Parkside PC 594 kit

 

 

 

 

 

The meat van is also in the works as a one piece 3D print, but still a WIP at this stage.

 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

On 26/09/2022 at 13:39, Trofimow said:

   These have been seen on here in a previous thread, my first attempts at 3D printing bodgery.

 

This one is a one piece print, and I used the chassis and doors from this bashed with the Parkside PC 594 kit

 

 

 

 

 

The meat van is also in the works as a one piece 3D print, but still a WIP at this stage.

 

 

 

 

They look very good matey. Thanks for showing those. 

Are you saying the Print was the whole Van or the Chassis or both?

Phil

[Trofimow]

50 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

 

Are you saying the Print was the whole Van or the Chassis or both?

Phil

 

The complete van, body and chassis printed as one piece.

 

Here are a couple of earlier iterations during development.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

On 29/09/2022 at 14:10, Trofimow said:

 

The complete van, body and chassis printed as one piece.

 

Here are a couple of earlier iterations during development.

 

 

Blimey, that's clever. Bet it took ages to do the plan or whatever it is you have to do?

P

[Mallard60022]

On 29/09/2022 at 14:10, Trofimow said:

 

The complete van, body and chassis printed as one piece.

 

Here are a couple of earlier iterations during development.

 

Cheeky ask. Have you ever considered offering them for sale? Asking for a friend!

P

[Trofimow]

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

 Bet it took ages to do the plan or whatever it is you have to do?

P

 

Much longer than you could imagine...

 

I bought the printer with no prior knowledge whatsover of 3D printing or CAD design.

My understanding of it is still somewhat rudimentary and basic now.

The learning curve was vertical and It took many, many failures before anything vaguely acceptable came out.

[Trofimow]

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Cheeky ask. Have you ever considered offering them for sale? Asking for a friend!

P

 

Not really.

 

Sorry to disappoint your friend, but although satisfactory for my layout, they are not of what I would consider to be commercial quality, and the amount of work and therefore time involved would make the cost completely unrealistic.

[41516]

Minor delay in progress caused by catching the something akin to the flu at the end of last week (not covid, which was a surprise) after extending the roof and gluing the body back up, with just the door locks left on the body sides.  Being ill wrote off Friday, the weekend and most of yesterday, but I've finished those locks off today.

 

Decided to go for a van with the original vertical vac pipes, as it's a bit more interesting...and might distract from a few wobbly plank engravings.  Still unsure what I'm going to end up using for brakes, the ABS pack I showed previously is technically earmarked for a couple of ABS D1478s I have, both missing various underframe parts (one everythings sans a couple of bent v-hangers).

 

Underframe is currently a modified ancient two-part Ratio chassis with an accomodation wheelset in place until I make any further decisions . Lanarkshire buffers and vac pipes just pushed in (pins on the pipe mounts) for photos.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by 41516
clarification

[41516]

 

[Mallard60022]

11 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

Boom!

How the hell did they do that in such a short time!

P

[Wickham Green too]

13 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

How the hell did they do that in such a short time!

One piece mouldings from Trofimow, obviously ! ............ you're friend'll be happy ! 🤭

[Graham_Muz]

14 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Boom!

How the hell did they do that in such a short time!

P

It has been a project worked on for just under two years... 

[Trofimow]

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

One piece mouldings from Trofimow, obviously ! ............ you're friend'll be happy ! 🤭

 

In the best traditions of the hobby, the most effective way to ensure that something gets made RTR is to put the effort in to build it yourself first...

 

If our friends at accurascale are reading this, I've almost finished the SR meat van, and I'm hoping to make 2 different Transfesa ferry vans next in line. (hint, hint)

 

[McC]

4 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

It has been a project worked on for just under two years... 

 

Did I miss offering you a job Graham ? 😃

[Graham_Muz]

37 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Did I miss offering you a job Graham ? 😃

It was just reiterating that such projects when done properly take time to throughly research and prepare before being able announce at such an EP stage. 

[41516]

1 hour ago, Trofimow said:

In the best traditions of the hobby, the most effective way to ensure that something gets made RTR is to put the effort in to build it yourself first...

 

Indeed! 

[Jack P]

I have a few questions, and I thought possibly it might be worth asking in here, rather than making a new thread.

 

I'm specifically curious about the Red Oxide vans, and what happened between the end of the war, and pre nationalisation. Apologies for the format of this post, but I just want to confirm my understanding of things, and with plenty of time before these arrive, further information might come to light.

 

- Pre 1948, the red oxide vans would've looked as they do below, but with SR branding above the number, below the small 10T (correct?) This appears to be correct, but unless anyone can provide a photo I can't 100% confirm, can only get close with a best guess.

 

- Aside from this, would there have been any differences in the final livery from what is seen below? the XP and WB markings would have all been the same, and in white? Plate 93 SR wagons illustrated vol 4. suggests that WB & XP in white are correct and were added before markings were removed for common user pool.

 

- By the time Banana traffic ceased, (Nov 1940) these wagons were already in the common user pool (March 1940) (correct?) This appears to be correct

 

- So this would mean that the Post-1936 Stone liveried vans would've lost the 'N' from their liveries? Appears correct, light/intermediate repairs/shopping would usually result in 'Return to..' and the 'N' markings being removed.

 

- After Banana traffic ceased, it's noted that some of these wagons were employed on other duties, what were these duties, Meat, fish, general goods stock? Lots of evidence would suggest that they were used without the steam heat as insulated vans, so meat traffic seems most likely.

 

- When employed on these other duties, would the wagons have been re-liveried to reflect the changes? E.G would the 'Banana Van' & 'Steam' brandings have just been removed? Or would they have been removed AND had new liveries applied that reflected their intended use? Or would they just have been left as is?

 

- Did any/many wagons go straight from Stone into Bauxite, skipping the red oxide phase?

 

- An excerpt from one of Mike King's volumes on the subject, reads; "In 1941 it was decided to change to main body colour to red oxide, with lemon lettering,  but on the basis that a wagon is normally given a heavy overhaul every seven years, it is doubtful whether all were repainted thus. The seven year overhaul period was probably adhered to fairly closely before the war. Thus one might conclude that any wagon built before, say,  1932 was probably repainted in the 1936 style, while those built later would probably have fallend due for overhaul during the war years, when probably only the essentials were dealt with" In this instance, what are the essentials? I assume that patch repainting was a thing, and that a van would not have just been repainted in a wholesale manor if there was only minor repainting work to do? Essential work would mean removing 'N' and 'Return to southampton' branding - other work likely mechanical

 

- Say a van was still Stone coloured in 1947, what would it look like? One assumes that if the 'N' was removed, then maybe the Banana Van markings would have been too? (Am I correctly understanding what the N is for?)

 

 

Is there anything else that I'm missing, or that's worth being asked, or noting? I sometimes struggle to find information, as when people say 'Post war' they usually just mean post Nationalisation, things pre-war, and even during the war to some extent, seem to be easier to nail information down for. If there are any good books that might be worth browsing for these answers, then I'd appreciate the suggestions. I've already tried the Illustrated history of Southern Wagons Volume 4 & 5, but there isn't much about that specific interim period. 

 

 

A huge thank you to everyone in advance!

 

Edit: Have highlighted the answers I have so far in bold - if you know better, please do let me know!

Edited October 11, 2022 by Jack P

[Wickham Green too]

Yep - very confusing ........... according to the GWR wagons 'bible' all banana vans became Common User in November 1940 and  " the essentials" would then have included removing the 'N' and 'Return to Southampton' branding : Mike King's Plate 96 states as much - and in doing so quashes any notion that Plate 93 could have been taken post-war.

 

Don't forget the Southern were experts at 'revarnishing' coaching stock and I have no doubt they'd've been happy to similarly re-letter wagons on an old paint finish - so stone colouring MIGHT have survived to 1948 on some wagons : Accurascale are offering us three banana vans in interim livery and presumably they have evidence that all three were repainted in 1948 .... we can only speculate as to what colour paint they carried when they needed painting - or, perhaps, 'revarnishing' - at this time.

[bécasse]

The decision to change the colour (to one less obvious from the air) may well have been an ARP-based one. If it was, it would have been implemented quickly across the fleet, probably within weeks.

[Barclay]

10 hours ago, Jack P said:

I have a few questions, and I thought possibly it might be worth asking in here, rather than making a new thread.

 

I'm specifically curious about the Red Oxide vans, and what happened between the end of the war, and pre nationalisation. Apologies for the format of this post, but I just want to confirm my understanding of things, and with plenty of time before these arrive, further information might come to light.

 

- Pre 1948, the red oxide vans would've looked as they do below, but with SR branding above the number, below the small 10T (correct?) This appears to be correct, but unless anyone can provide a photo I can't 100% confirm, can only get close with a best guess.

 

- Aside from this, would there have been any differences in the final livery from what is seen below? the XP and WB markings would have all been the same, and in white? Plate 93 SR wagons illustrated vol 4. suggests that WB & XP in white are correct and were added before markings were removed for common user pool.

 

- By the time Banana traffic ceased, (Nov 1940) these wagons were already in the common user pool (March 1940) (correct?) This appears to be correct

 

- So this would mean that the Post-1936 Stone liveried vans would've lost the 'N' from their liveries? Appears correct, light/intermediate repairs/shopping would usually result in 'Return to..' and the 'N' markings being removed.

 

- After Banana traffic ceased, it's noted that some of these wagons were employed on other duties, what were these duties, Meat, fish, general goods stock? Lots of evidence would suggest that they were used without the steam heat as insulated vans, so meat traffic seems most likely.

 

- When employed on these other duties, would the wagons have been re-liveried to reflect the changes? E.G would the 'Banana Van' & 'Steam' brandings have just been removed? Or would they have been removed AND had new liveries applied that reflected their intended use? Or would they just have been left as is?

 

- Did any/many wagons go straight from Stone into Bauxite, skipping the red oxide phase?

 

- An excerpt from one of Mike King's volumes on the subject, reads; "In 1941 it was decided to change to main body colour to red oxide, with lemon lettering,  but on the basis that a wagon is normally given a heavy overhaul every seven years, it is doubtful whether all were repainted thus. The seven year overhaul period was probably adhered to fairly closely before the war. Thus one might conclude that any wagon built before, say,  1932 was probably repainted in the 1936 style, while those built later would probably have fallend due for overhaul during the war years, when probably only the essentials were dealt with" In this instance, what are the essentials? I assume that patch repainting was a thing, and that a van would not have just been repainted in a wholesale manor if there was only minor repainting work to do? Essential work would mean removing 'N' and 'Return to southampton' branding - other work likely mechanical

 

- Say a van was still Stone coloured in 1947, what would it look like? One assumes that if the 'N' was removed, then maybe the Banana Van markings would have been too? (Am I correctly understanding what the N is for?)

 

 

Is there anything else that I'm missing, or that's worth being asked, or noting? I sometimes struggle to find information, as when people say 'Post war' they usually just mean post Nationalisation, things pre-war, and even during the war to some extent, seem to be easier to nail information down for. If there are any good books that might be worth browsing for these answers, then I'd appreciate the suggestions. I've already tried the Illustrated history of Southern Wagons Volume 4 & 5, but there isn't much about that specific interim period. 

 

 

A huge thank you to everyone in advance!

 

Edit: Have highlighted the answers I have so far in bold - if you know better, please do let me know!

This is all most interesting to me, as I have the ABS kit for the SR banana van in my stash but haven't built it because I assumed that by 1947, when my layout is set, the van would have been returned from the pool and re-instated as a non-common user van, return to Southampton, etc. which puts it well away from my location. If this is not in fact the case and it remained pooled, which is my understanding after reading these words, then I can justify one on my layout after all. Excellent!

[Wickham Green too]

16 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The decision to change the colour (to one less obvious from the air) may well have been an ARP-based one. If it was, it would have been implemented quickly across the fleet, probably within weeks.

You could be right about an ARP-based change of colour but there were small fleets of bright yellow cement and salt vans which didn't get camouflaged ! ..... the fact they weren't under direct government control shouldn't have made any difference.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the 1478s were nearing their 'paint by date' in 1940 whereas the 1479s were three years behind .......... so IF, repeat IF any vans did survive in stone colour through the war, they're far more likely to have been 1479s.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 09/10/2022 at 15:50, Trofimow said:

 

In the best traditions of the hobby, the most effective way to ensure that something gets made RTR is to put the effort in to build it yourself first...

 

If our friends at accurascale are reading this, I've almost finished the SR meat van, and I'm hoping to make 2 different Transfesa ferry vans next in line. (hint, hint)

 

 

Please scratch-build a Kitson-Still Loco so that it will become available in RTR!

[Wickham Green too]

Now, you know what the market's like nowadays - nobody will produce this commercially until they know how to programme the sound chip ............ any ideas ?   Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Wheeze - Bang - Chuff Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop - Fizz - Bang - Chuff - Pop -

[Wickham Green too]

Returning to the topic in hand ..... the latest volume of Acquired Wagons from David Larkin includes a photo of S50870 freshly painted at Eastleigh in August 1950. It appears to have body, solebars and headstocks in one colour - which I'd guess is BR bauxite rather the SR red oxide ( however different they might have been ) - certainly without the dark SR brown solebars / headstocks as depicted on the forthcoming Accurascale model of this van and with no visible hint of the wartime green corner flashes.