Hornby announce TT:120

[Robin Brasher]

12 minutes ago, Ha_Charade_UR said:

Hi all, this is my first post on the forum.  I've been following this discussion for the last week or so with interest.  

 

Someone asked who TT120 is aimed at; well, it's the reason I'm here, so maybe I'm part of the intended demographic.  I last bought something in a model shop in 1986...up until that point, I'd had OO, N and had dipped my toe into the elusive world of TT (I think I joined the 3mm Society too).  However, as my mid-teenager-isms took hold, my other interests got the upper hand and that last purchase from the model shop lay dormant, boxed and in the custody of my brother.  
 

Speaking of whom, my brother never lost his interest in railways and it was partly because of him that I was on the net, looking at various model retailers' websites.  I ordered him a present and as a consequence was on their mailing list.  Every now and then an interestingly titled email would appear and I would have a look.  

 

And then, a couple of weeks or so ago, something alerted me to this TT120 thing.  Well, that did make me look!  The scale (and now actually it is to scale, woo!) which had been a bit of a cult thing to me as a kid was suddenly being given a proper shot...I had to find out more!  And so I did...I watched the Hornby promo stuff, read various stuff on the web, watched more videos...went to the Hornby website and signed up (hey, free for a year, 15% discount...what's not to like?).  

At which point I've got to digress...I feel a bit like I've got out of a time machine.   I knew the prices of my old hobby had increased rather a lot but it's like I was asleep and missed some kind of revolution!   And for some reason I've yet to discover, rather a lot of people seem to dislike Hornby; I'll probably find the reason for that on the web, too.  

 

But back to my main point...TT120 has dragged me back in and may well get me to part with some loot.  I've looked at OO and N and now that I'm adjusting to being out of the metaphorical time machine, I'm thinking, yes, the models look more sophisticated but they ought to for the prices they command!  And then I'm looking at the TT sets (and here comes the nostalgia angle...we all love a train set if we're honest, because it takes us back to the time when our respective worlds were less messed up) and doing the maths: loco, track and the necessary starter gubbins for less than the price of (many) single locos in the other scales...even more enticing with the 15% discount...well, I mean, it's got to be worth a go, hasn't it?   

 

So there you are.  This is my perspective as an outsider, no dog in the fight and other such cliches.  I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty gripped by this move of Hornby's!  

The TT sets are excellent value for money but I am interested in specific locomotives that Hornby are going to produce like 'Silver King' and 'Duchess of Montrose' for nostalgia and harking back to Hornby Dublo days so it would make sense for me to buy these rather than a train set that I am not interested in.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Robin Brasher
Post appeared before I typed anything

[Phil Parker]

47 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

stuff people are more likely to afford?

 

You mean selling models at a loss? It's been tried before and never ends well.

 

48 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

trains that fit in a modern house without having to take the doors off?

 

Such as a smaller scale? I think that's what we are discussing right now isn't it? If you want smaller still, there are sections of RMweb for N, Z and even T gauges.

[Hobby]

23 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

In the Hornby alternative reality the Flying Scotsman can be anything they dream up.

 

It is called Rule 1 and used by many of us at times in need.

 

The set is also called The Scotsman, not The Flying Scotsman! :)

[Hroth]

Things are going well, pages will be into the hundreds soon!

 

[Robin Brasher]

Although the set is called the Scotsman it says in the product information that the LNER 4-6-2 locomotive and complementary Pullman coaches included in this set represent how the 'Flying Scotsman' may have looked in the LNER heyday of the 1930s, that being the Flying Scotsman service and not the somewhat famous locomotive named after it.  I don't recall seeing any pictures of the Flying Scotsman train consisting entirely of Pullman cars in the 1930s.  

[JohnR]

23 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

Thank you for the information about the lack of lights in the Pullman cars in the Scotsman set. 

 

I wonder if it has occurred to Hornby that some modellers are not on the internet. As the TT 120 range is only available direct from its website these modellers will not be able to buy any Hornby TT 120 models. This will mean that Hornby will be missing out on nostalgia sales possibly mainly for people in the over 70s age group who are still active modellers.

 

Its not aimed at "nostalgia sales", and the number of modellers over 70 who are not on the internet is probably a very small proportion of the overall market for model railways. 

[Robin Brasher]

When a survey was made in the UK in 2018 they found that 10% of the UK population have never gone online or used the internet in the last 3 months so these people will not be able to buy any Hornby TT 120 models.

[JohnR]

7 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

When a survey was made in the UK in 2018 they found that 10% of the UK population have never gone online or used the internet in the last 3 months so these people will not be able to buy any Hornby TT 120 models.

 

And how many of them are in the target market?

[britishcolumbian]

46 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Such as a smaller scale? I think that's what we are discussing right now isn't it? If you want smaller still, there are sections of RMweb for N, Z and even T gauges.

Smaller, without being microscopic. 

[Ravenser]

35 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

When a survey was made in the UK in 2018 they found that 10% of the UK population have never gone online or used the internet in the last 3 months so these people will not be able to buy any Hornby TT 120 models.

 

That was before the pandemic. It's likely to be less now. Online sales have been stimulated massively by three lockdowns

 

And again - how many of those people are either dirt-poor or very elderly ? Two groups who will not be interested in a novel approach to a hobby that costs some hundreds of pounds to pursue

[andythenorth]

Although sites like this naturally run on opinions, and we all have one, fate* has also provided us with statistics: 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/householdcharacteristics/homeinternetandsocialmediausage/bulletins/internetaccesshouseholdsandindividuals/2020

 

*and an advanced state of civilisation

[philsandy]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Things are going well, pages will be into the hundreds soon!

 

 

When we reach page 120 the thread will have to be closed.

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

The set is also called The Scotsman, not The Flying Scotsman! :)

Yes but the advertising says :-

"A journey on a Pullman service would be regarded by many as the pinnacle of rail travel in the steam era. The LNER A1 4-6-2 locomotive and complementary Pullman coaches included in this set represent how the ‘Flying Scotsman’ may have looked in the LNER heyday of the 1930s, that being the Flying Scotsman service and not the somewhat famous locomotive named after it. This service would run non-stop between Edinburgh and London, departing at 10:00 in each direction."

So Hornby consider the train they are selling is representing the Flying Scotsman train.

[Flying Pig]

7 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Yes but the advertising says :-

"A journey on a Pullman service would be regarded by many as the pinnacle of rail travel in the steam era. The LNER A1 4-6-2 locomotive and complementary Pullman coaches included in this set represent how the ‘Flying Scotsman’ may have looked in the LNER heyday of the 1930s, that being the Flying Scotsman service and not the somewhat famous locomotive named after it. This service would run non-stop between Edinburgh and London, departing at 10:00 in each direction."

So Hornby consider the train they are selling is representing the Flying Scotsman train.

 

Hardly anyone remembers what the pre-War Flying Scotsman looked like and they aren't in The Target Market*. Anyway, Hornby knows that People Like Pullmans and also that, while more ornate than a Mk1, a Pullman is still a darn site cheaper to produce than a decent teak finish.

 

*Quite possibly they have previous modelling form and would buy for nostalgic reasons, despite being dirt poor and generally disgruntled. Completely the Wrong Sort of People.

[Pacific231G]

16 hours ago, Hroth said:

By the way, has anyone had a look at Hornbys other involvement in TT?   Arnold, their Continental brand, has a number of items, and the locos are little jewels, priced accordingly. The cheapest, an 0-4-0 diesel shunter is in the same price bracket as Hornbys Class 08, the steam outline locos are double the price...

 

If nothing else, Hornby have an additional outlet for UK outline locos that have a Continental application or appeal. Their involvement in TT:120 may be more synergistic than the doubting Thomases may be prepared to acknowledge.

 

https://uk.arnoldmodel.com/

 

This is curious because almost everything  in Hornby International's Arnold TT catalogue is  Ep III and IV East German DR with a couple of Saxon and DRG items from Ep 1 & 2.  That's the range one would have expected from a pre-unification E. German firm but not for one initiated more recently. In any case, Arnold was a W. German company based in Nürnberg  before it went bankrupt in 1995 and was bought by  Rivarossi (which in turn was bought by Hornby) . Arnold was also one of the firms that pioneered  N scale  (along with Trix) and AFAIK had never had anything to do with TT. So is Arnold's TT range based on that of one of the former E. German brands (though I thought Zeuke/VEB Berliner-Bahn was the only one of those in TT and that went to Tillig)  I'm curious.

[Ravenser]

12 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

This is curious because almost everything  in Hornby International's Arnold TT catalogue is  Ep III and IV East German DR with a couple of Saxon and DRG items from Ep 1 & 2.  That's the range one would have expected from a pre-unification E. German firm but not for one initiated more recently. In any case, Arnold was a W. German company based in Nürnberg  before it went bankrupt in 1995 and was bought by  Rivarossi (which in turn was bought by Hornby) . Arnold was also one of the firms that pioneered  N scale  (along with Trix) and AFAIK had never had anything to do with TT. So is Arnold's TT range based on that of one of the former E. German brands (though I thought Zeuke/VEB Berliner-Bahn was the only one of those in TT and that went to Tillig)  I'm curious.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong , but isn;t the little Kof shunter they do a West German loco?

 

To the best of my knowledge the Arnold range is purely Hornby tooling - Rekoboy commented on its development in a post about 30 or 40 pages back

[peak experience]

May as well start my wish list. Dear Hornby, I'd very much an EM2/77/NS1500 class loco for Christmas. With a UK and Dutch market, you know it makes sense. 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

Yes but the advertising says :-

"A journey on a Pullman service would be regarded by many as the pinnacle of rail travel in the steam era. The LNER A1 4-6-2 locomotive and complementary Pullman coaches included in this set represent how the ‘Flying Scotsman’ may have looked in the LNER heyday of the 1930s, that being the Flying Scotsman service and not the somewhat famous locomotive named after it. This service would run non-stop between Edinburgh and London, departing at 10:00 in each direction."

So Hornby consider the train they are selling is representing the Flying Scotsman train.

 

I think someone is mixing up The Flying Scotsman with Queen Of Scots.

 

QOS was an all Pullman train hauled by Pacifics.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/leeds-west-riding/301-queen-of-scots

 

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, philsandy said:

 

When we reach page 120 the thread will have to be closed.

 

It's more likely to close at page 127 as the 8 bit counter will roll over to 0 and begin again...

 

Unless it's an "off by one" error and it'll go to 128 before returning to 1!

 

[AY Mod]

6 hours ago, peak experience said:

May as well start my wish list.

 

Oh give me strength, we haven't the first products yet. Just no 

[andythenorth]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Oh give me strength, we haven't the first products yet. Just no 

I know that banning wish listing doesn't really work, but I've seen other forums do it 🙂

 

It's a long way from 100% effective, but eh. 🙃

Edited November 1, 2022 by andythenorth

[Robin Brasher]

8 hours ago, andythenorth said:

Although sites like this naturally run on opinions, and we all have one, fate* has also provided us with statistics: 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/householdcharacteristics/homeinternetandsocialmediausage/bulletins/internetaccesshouseholdsandindividuals/2020

 

*and an advanced state of civilisation

Thank you for the update. Most of the people in the model railway clubs I belong to are over 65 years old yet 20% of these may not have access to the internet. I think lots of these people are interested in Hornby TT 120. One of these has asked me to order some locomotives on his behalf. 

 

When I was developing my 00 gauge model railway I was receiving 10p pocket money a week and I used to visit my shop once a week and buy a piece of track until I had an oval of track. The postage costs of shopping on the internet would make doing this prohibitive.

[gc4946]

Rather late to this topic, but Hornby made a bold move into 1:120. 

It's the one scale that allows true compatibility across international boundaries - as opposed to 1:148, 1:150 or 1:160 representing N.

 

To start with I ordered a Tillig starter set because I prefer their pre-ballasted track.

So far I've held off preordering Hornby stock because I'm interested in a class 47 and they won't appear yet. I'm also curious about their tank locos.

I can understand Hornby wanting to appeal to a wide market, so Gresley pacifics make up both starter sets.

However apart from the 66s they could have offered a class 92 and wagons compatible with Channel Tunnel use to take advantage of some of the Continental European models available.

 

Overall I hope they make a success in their latest venture.

[whart57]

13 hours ago, Gary704 said:

I do agree with the comment about “disgruntled 00 and N” modellers. Perhaps it’s because the incorrect gauge / scale is an inconvenient truth? To be reminded that after spending ££ on an exquisite model that it’s running on narrow gauge track can’t be great and that the 00 cash cow mythology has been perpetuated by all manufacturers.

No one does exquisite ready to run P4 though do they? There are inconvenient truths in all commercial scales and TT-120 is no exception. There is nothing scale about the wheel profile for example. 

 

The narrow gauge of 00 really only jars when looking down the track, which we don't generally do. An exception to that generalisation is small pre-Grouping locos which can look wrong with the wheels too far in. Outside cranks fix that though 

[Paul Cram]

9 minutes ago, whart57 said:

No one does exquisite ready to run P4 though do they? There are inconvenient truths in all commercial scales and TT-120 is no exception. There is nothing scale about the wheel profile for example. 

 

The narrow gauge of 00 really only jars when looking down the track, which we don't generally do. An exception to that generalisation is small pre-Grouping locos which can look wrong with the wheels too far in. Outside cranks fix that though 

What about Suttons Locomotive works?