Hornby announce TT:120

[rob D2]

6 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

No skin in this game   however I do not see x,000 n gauge people or 00 x a lot given up their scales and have serious doubt how many new people this may attract

 

look nice but N has lots more to offer

I’ve heard quite a few people deciding to have a dabble, inc some eminent modellers.

 

Hornby clearly doesn’t believe N has the legs to attract new people in , and / or that market is mature ( never seems to have risen above the oft quoted 10 % of the market ) , so I think that’s behind it all .

 

I would be possibly be interested but it would mean selling 3k worth of OO as I don’t have the means to support both and Is imply don’t have the faith to go all in at this point .

[Robin Brasher]

21 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Sorry to mention “his” name but….Sam’s trains had a test of a trains set which came with that controller and it buzzed and was basically not good at all, he changed to his normal GM controller and the Loco performed well.

I don't think Sam has tested Hornby TT:120. The video I saw was from Simon's Shack and it was the first video I have seen of the Scotsman set working. 

[Hobby]

10 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I’m assuming they are intending a big push but when? Will they actually have stock surplus in the warehouse? With no shops to search to find the thing you missed I can see frustration waiting 12-18 months to get the next item. There should really have been extension sets ready to go with this, coaches and track?

 

I think we have covered this before as well? They have the track in stock but aren't releasing it until the sets are released (whether they've got that right has been discussed to death as well!), as no-one has heard anything despite the release of the Scotsman set I assume the track release will be when easterner goes out and that's due towards the end of this month/beginning of next depending on what Simon said to us at Warley. Other stock such as the 08 are due March/April. So perhaps not a 12/18 month wait...

 

I suppose in an ideal world they'd have gone for a massive release of everything in one go but for a small company like Hornby I'd doubt that would be feasible...

[Hobby]

6 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

using code 40 n  quiet a lot

 

RTR? Looking at the 2mmAssoc it all seems kits or conversion bits, that isn't RTR.

[Moxy]

10 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I think we have covered this before as well? They have the track in stock but aren't releasing it until the sets are released (whether they've got that right has been discussed to death as well!), as no-one has heard anything despite the release of the Scotsman set I assume the track release will be when easterner goes out and that's due towards the end of this month/beginning of next depending on what Simon said to us at Warley. Other stock such as the 08 are due March/April. So perhaps not a 12/18 month wait...

 

I suppose in an ideal world they'd have gone for a massive release of everything in one go but for a small company like Hornby I'd doubt that would be feasible...

 

I got an email from them on Monday saying that as the Scotsman set was here, some of the track/buildings has now been released:

 

Track Pieces

TT8002 - Straight Track
TT8003 - Curve - 1st Radius
TT8004 - Curve - 2nd Radius
TT8005 - Curve - 3rd Radius
TT8006 - Curve - 4th Radius
TT8007 - Curve - 6th Radius
TT8008 -  Left Hand Point 166mm 15° 631mm
TT8009 - Right Hand Point 166mm 15° 631mm
TT8010 - Buffer Stop
TT8011 - Quarter Straight Track
TT8026 - Locomotive & Rolling Stock Railer
TT8027 - Power Connecting Clip
TT8028 - Digital Power Connecting Clip

 

Lineside Signals and Buildings

TT9001 - Footbridge
TT9002 - S&C Dent Station
TT9003 - S&C Waiting Room
TT9004 - S&C Signal Box
TT9005 - Water Tower
TT9006 - Engine Shed
TT9007 - Good Shed
TT9008 - Straight Platform
TT9009 - Platform Ramp

 

I do take your point that most of the range is probably still to follow in 2023.

[PaulRhB]

19 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I think we have covered this before as well? They have the track in stock but aren't releasing it until the sets are released (whether they've got that right has been discussed to death as well!),

Track yes but nothing on pullman coaches to extend it which were surely produced alongside the set ones? It would be rather odd to run a second separate production and reset the line twice?

 

 

19 minutes ago, Hobby said:

depending on what Simon said to us at Warley. Other stock such as the 08 are due March/April. So perhaps not a 12/18 month wait...

I was talking in more general terms about the range. If you buy say BR NE pacifics you have the set and four locos to choose from. If you go LNER you get a set and two, BR Midland region two locos or just one for the LMS. There’s no consistency so why not offer two LMS Princesses over five BR NE pacifics? There are no dates online associated with phases 2,3 & 4 it could be 12-18 months before you see something to add to the collection unless you are buying a random selection and we know a lot of people follow a theme. With the diesels  you can at least get an 08 and a 66 in matching liveries although they don’t really match the phase one wagon liveries! 
Just odd choices and very little info forthcoming on why, the set is nice but I still have to figure out what I’m going to do about the coach lights if I extend it as it will leave me with some lit and some not. Maybe there’s logic in there somewhere but I haven’t figured it out 😆

 

[andrewshimmin]

I am very impressed by the idea people would buy the set plus lots of track and other stock quickly....

 

I imagine most people have to save up for their purchases and spread them out, so a set in January followed by some track in April and some more stock in summer/autumn is perfect for many (me, anyway!). The household finance scrutiny committee would probably impeach me if I tried to buy several locos at once!

 

Within a year or two there should be a wider range available. Phase 3 is supposed to be 2023/4 and Phase 4 presumably 2024/5. As an LMS person a Duchess plus a Black 5, for LNER people there will be two types of Pacific, for GWR people a Pannier and a Castle, for diesel nuts a shunter, several mainline locos (two older, two newer) plus the HST...

 

Of course I'd like to see more LMS stuff (2-6-4T, Patriot or Jubilee, Midland Compound, nice pre grouping 4-4-0, 0-6-0 and 2-4-2T or 0-4-4T) and I dare say over time there will be. And hopefully some pre-grouping carriages (after all many of them lasted nearly to the end of steam). I wouldn't mind a couple of more contemporary things too - a Pacer in Manchester orange for preference, although would like a 158 or even the new Greater Anglia bimode unit.

 

I already have a large collection of Triang TT inherited from my grandpa which I will be running as well. It's available, for those who want stock quickly. And the 3mm Society and others can supply lots of kits for stuff to run on 12mm track 😀.

 

Anyway, happy modelling!

[Hroth]

11 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

I am very impressed by the idea people would buy the set plus lots of track and other stock quickly....

 

My plan is when I get my set (it'll be a very late Christmas present...), I'll put it on the baseboard its intended for and see how much space I have to play with before ordering extra track.  I can then see if I can go with 4th or 2nd radius curves to have a double oval, with a couple of points and straights to complete. But there's no point in buying anything in advance until I can see how things go.

 

After that, I'll consider what comes next in terms of locos and rolling stock!

 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

I don't think Sam has tested Hornby TT:120. The video I saw was from Simon's Shack and it was the first video I have seen of the Scotsman set working. 

I didn’t say he had, I was talking about the controller which is Hornby’s cheap standard controller.

[PaulRhB]

22 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I am very impressed by the idea people would buy the set plus lots of track and other stock quickly....

 

Yes but you’d think they’d release enough to make up a full train at the same time? They’ve been doing this in OO for several years and with things like the HST you ended up with no second class coaches as they’d made the same number as first class and if you’d not pre ordered you had to wait a year for another run to get the stock to make up a set. 

 

22 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I imagine most people have to save up for their purchases and spread them out, so a set in January followed by some track in April and some more stock in summer/autumn is perfect for many

 

And yes I do have to save up, usually from when announced giving me up to two to three years on some! With Bachmann changing to suddenly announcing stuff a couple of years back I save up a pot that allows for that too though and I bought the set from that pot. It’s still saving but planned for sudden announcements. 

[Hobby]

To be fair to Hornby this is the first time that a UK manufacturer has gone into a completely new scale in a long time. They aren't a large company so expecting them to release lots of stuff all at the same time i feel is being unrealistic, though i accept you don't agree with that. I don't think it's the end of the world to have to wait a few months for more stock, March/April seems to be the point at which we'll see coaches and wagons arriving. 

 

 

This discussion is a far cry from the Peco TT thread when all we were looking at was a few pieces of track and the odd wagon and loco!! ;) 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hobby

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Moxy said:

I got an email from them on Monday saying that as the Scotsman set was here, some of the track/buildings has now been released:

 

Someone on FB has had an email saying their buildings are due today!

[luke_stevens]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

And you my love, won't you take my hand?
We'll go back in time to that mystic land
Where the dew drops cry and the cats meow
I will take you there, I will show you how

 

That still means nothing to me! But others understand by the looks of it...

 

Luke

 

Research. Ok, so it is Stonehenge from Spinal Tap. But I don't get the reference :(

Edited December 15, 2022 by luke_stevens

[PaulRhB]

36 minutes ago, Hobby said:

They aren't a large company so expecting them to release lots of stuff all at the same time i feel is being unrealistic,

As I noted above I’m not after lots just some joined up thinking. Five options for BR(E) and just one for LMS, why not 3-3 or 4-2? The Pacifics and HST all come with coaches but what’s in phase one for the 66’s? GBRF with the BP TTA’s, coal sector MGR’s with a DB 66? These liveries are more suited to the big bogie hoppers or box wagons. The BR 08 goes with several wagons but not the big diesels. 

There’s nothing in phase one to go with po open wagons, it’s random. 

[AY Mod]

I know we can't tell absolutely but the stated speculation from SK was that TT:120 would appeal to a whole new untapped market of space poor families etc who were looking for something new reached by marketing through non-modelling media. Would they have been the very earliest to place their orders or was that existing modellers who understood what the product was before seeing it in the flesh? So who'll have the first batch of train sets for Christmas? My gut feel is that it's not this bright new market.

[farren]

12 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I think he meant 1” (inch) to 1’ (foot) or 25.4mm to 305mm is the howler as that’s 1:12 not 1:120. 
 

It should have been 1/10” to 1’

 

 

Dooh! I see sorry Chard, learn you to suck eggs meant it was not. 

[Barry Ten]

36 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

That still means nothing to me! But others understand by the looks of it...

 

Luke

 

Research. Ok, so it is Stonehenge from Spinal Tap. But I don't get the reference :(

 

Maybe a bit unnecessarily oblique but it's about a confusion between foot and inch symbols, which results in the Stonehenge prop being ludicrously small.

[Hobby]

I'd agree, Andy, from what I've seen on FB and elsewhere so far it's been existing modellers from other scales/gauges and armchair modellers who have decided to take the plunge. Having said that I've not seen any of the advertising that Hornby initially said they were going to do to attract these "new" enthusiasts. Perhaps that's been put on hold because of the delays getting the sets from China, hardly much point in doing a big advertising campaign if you haven't got the stock. Most of the "advertising" so far has been via their website, forums, FB and specialist magazines, more word of mouth than a campaign! Having said all that they seem to be selling well even without the "new market"...

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hobby

[97406]

I must admit that going for a scale of in the region of 2.5mm / ft always seemed strange to me as it’s so close to ‘N’. I understood the old TT of 3mm / ft as it fits in between ‘OO’ and ‘N’ better. I suppose there is a better correlation if you consider it alongside ‘HO’, though.

 

Personally, I’m quite happy with my ‘narrow gauge’ 4mm stuff, and did consider ‘N’ for a while, but I prefer the larger items of rolling stock as they often end up on the mantelpiece being admired from the comfort of my favourite armchair!

[natterjack]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I would be possibly be interested but it would mean selling 3k worth of OO as I don’t have the means to support both and Is imply don’t have the faith to go all in at this point .

This is at the nub of much adverse comment. Those already invested in other scales will likely be at the mature end of the market while Hornby will be concerned with the longer term future market of the younger enthusiast. Supplies in the other 'scales' will not be interrupted as long as their respective sales remain healthy, but the gamble for Hornby is for TT120 to encourage new long term buyers for their own future viability.

 

And  what else might one suggest for potential world wide compatibility (sales)? The only regular UK scale achieving this to any extent is 7mm /1ft  which  also happens to match  an established international standard for diecast, but which is also  at odds with O Gauge  scales in many major markets. HO is the obvious answer but that one has already been tried and hit the buffers on being too close in size to OO, and in any event both share the same issues of size versus new build/future domestic space.

[Hobby]

34 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

As I noted above I’m not after lots just some joined up thinking. Five options for BR(E) and just one for LMS, why not 3-3 or 4-2? The Pacifics and HST all come with coaches but what’s in phase one for the 66’s? GBRF with the BP TTA’s, coal sector MGR’s with a DB 66? These liveries are more suited to the big bogie hoppers or box wagons. The BR 08 goes with several wagons but not the big diesels. 

There’s nothing in phase one to go with po open wagons, it’s random. 

 

I think we've arrived at agree to differ time, I still think you are expecting too much and i don't see it as as disjointed as you do! Never mind, at least we are getting RTR British TT which, for me who'd been wanting that for the best part of 40 years, is more important than how fast and how it arrives!

[Robin Brasher]

I am not sure if poor families would have access to the internet to buy the TT:120 models on line or enough money to buy at train set.

 

TT:120 has attracted no interest at my local model railway clubs or exhibitions but I have not been able to resist it. The two train sets did not appeal to me but I have bought some track and buildings and I have pre-ordered five locomotives. 

 

I think that existing railway modellers will buy the TT:120 range and they will be looking for a fun train set that can easily be transported to clubs and exhibitions in a small hatchback.

[PeterStiles]

4 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

poor families

 

Just because you have little or no room for an OO gauge layout doesn't mean you're *poor*, it just means you have little or no room for an OO gauge layout.

[JohnR]

16 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I am not sure if poor families would have access to the internet to buy the TT:120 models on line or enough money to buy at train set.

Rubbish. "Poor families" have to have access to the internet in order to access a large amount of services including Universal Credit. 

 

Whether they have the money is a different thing, but given that, say, the typical games console is £300-£400, compared to the ~£150-£200 cost of a TT train set, its simply going to be a question of choice. 

[HExpressD]

22 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I'd agree, Andy, from what I've seen on FB and elsewhere so far it's been existing modellers from other scales/gauges and armchair modellers who have decided to take the plunge. 

While a worthy concern, I think you have to be invested in the hobby to a degree to begin posting about it online, maybe at 20% investment you might join a few FB groups and then of course at 95% investment you join RMweb ;). I think that if families are taking up TT, we may have no idea as I can imagine your average family enjoying their hobby together, never posting about it anywhere.