Hornby announce TT:120

[Johan DC]

Would that mean that the FS is not far behind? Maybe both made at the same time? 

[APOLLO]

21 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

The further away from the UK you like, the easier it seems to be...

 

Luke

 

Elon will deliver to Mars for free (one day) !!!!

 

Brit15

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, frobisher said:

But people do throw obscene amounts of money at having the latest phone these days regardless of other financial challenges. 

Maybe many of those phones are on a pay-monthly contract, so not actually hundreds of pounds up front? - which tends to be the norm with model trains, whoever sells them.

My monthly giffgaff (runs on O2) 'bundle' is £10 for 20Gb of data & unlimited calls/texts. (Off topic but I thought I'd throw it in there).

 

Re TT120 must admit I'm not keen on the tyre width & flange depths on that LNER engine. It rather negates the "exact scale to gauge" argument, because with such wide wheels some dimensions somewhere have had to give, to accomodate them!!

I should think it won't look so bad on diesels, when they come along.

[Jeff Smith]

10 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Re TT120 must admit I'm not keen on the tyre width & flange depths on that LNER engine. It rather negates the "exact scale to gauge" argument, because with such wide wheels some dimensions somewhere have had to give, to accomodate them!!

I should think it won't look so bad on diesels, when they come along.

This is the argument against HO steam locos.......

[Dunsignalling]

On 14/12/2022 at 12:00, 5Dublo2 said:

That noticeable perception / effect is the probably because TT:120 is true to scale for both track/wheel width and bodywork. OO is not.
 

AN OO loco has narrower wheelsets than it should have, so when anything overhangs on curves it will look way more obvious than a scale where the wheel sets are the correct width for the body 

 

 

Not strictly correct, simply because all r-t-r wheels have wider than scale treads.

 

If the gauge over flanges is dead scale, the width over wheel faces cannot be, and splasher faces will have to be moved outward to clear (as well as allowing for overscale material thickness). This is how it will have to be dealt with in TT:120.

 

In OO, the entire wheel is moved inward but that places the outer face of the wheel, and thereby the outer face of the splasher,  pretty much where it should be, though a similar allowance has to be incorporated for material thickness. 

 

In both scales, the inner faces of the splashers must be omitted to disguise the respective subterfuges.

 

The moral is that making one measurement dead scale whilst requiring the model to negotiate toy-train radii means that other things have to be consciously made wrong to compensate.

 

Consequently, TT:120 requires as many compromises to make it work as does OO; they are just different ones.  

 

Marvellous what can be done in photoshop with images of stationary models sitting on straight track, though!  

 

John

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

3 hours ago, frobisher said:

But people do throw obscene amounts of money at having the latest phone these days regardless of other financial challenges.  Never spent more than £100 on a phone myself and never seen much of a need to.

I upgrade to the newest one every couple of years.  But I don’t have a laptop or tablet or home pc so I use my phone for work, banking, emails, everything.

[5Dublo2]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not strictly correct, simply because all r-t-r wheels have wider than scale treads.

 

I was thinking about the correct distance between the outside edges of the wheels and the outside edges of the bodywork that is noticeably wrong in OO and definitely adds to overhang differences seen on corners

However your point is also valid

 

[F-UnitMad]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

This is the argument against HO steam locos.......

Indeed it is, British ones in particular. 😉 🙂

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, 5Dublo2 said:

I was thinking about the correct distance between the outside edges of the wheels and the outside edges of the bodywork that is noticeably wrong in OO and definitely adds to overhang differences seen on corners

However your point is also valid

 

 

Hence my emphasis on material thickness, which unfortunately becomes an ever greater nuisance the smaller the scale.

 

Excess overall width to clear overscale wheels set to scale gauge has long plagued HO models of locomotives with outside cylinders and wheel splashers. It's much less obvious with US-outline models, though, simply because (early prototypes apart) few of them have splashers. 

 

Any accurate scale/gauge combination where models are required to negotiate train-set curves is doomed to similar issues. 

 

John

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

No! It's the one my brother and I unpacked this morning! No photoshop and no preproduction items!

Here are some of the other photos I took on my TT120 diorama.

 

1)

 

The dilemma is do you return it or keep it as a rare anomaly? 😉 People collect such things! 

[luke_stevens]

1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

The dilemma is do you return it or keep it as a rare anomaly? 😉 People collect such things! 

 

Have chatted with my brother and he like the fact that "his" set is special 👌 !

 

Luke

[luke_stevens]

1 hour ago, Johan DC said:

Would that mean that the FS is not far behind? Maybe both made at the same time? 

 

I would think that all the A2/A3/A4 were all made at the same time. Then they will have the capacity to move onto the Duchess/ City/ Princess's.

 

Luke

[Robin Brasher]

I laid my Hornby TT:120 track on the tables at Furzebrook Village Hall today.  The oval just fitted on a single table but I put it on two tables to avoid my non existent stock from falling on the floor.  We are lucky that our tables fit flush against each other and don't have lips. I am looking forward to receiving more track and some locomotives and rolling stock.

[Dava]

On 17/12/2022 at 18:04, Michanglais said:

 

I throw my hands up in despair!

 

TT is apparently not for me - not yet, anyway...

 

I tried to place a pre-order from France (again), in fact I pre-ordered 4 coaches, but because Hornby hasn't got the stock in and doesn't know in which order/groupings things will arrive, they applied a separate postage charge to each coach. I can see that they can't have hundreds of boxes in a warehouse somewhere with people's partial orders in them awaiting all items before sending. But, come on Hornby - €18 per TT scale coach is really on the steep side - nearly €80 postage for four, small-scale coaches, I don't think so. So all those pre-orders have been cancelled. I'll wait for stock to arrive and, if I miss out, I miss out. My interest in TT is for an eclectic collection of BR blue/Sectorisation locos and coaches so if I miss out on the odd item, it's not the end of the world, my French and Swiss modelling (in HO and N - just so that I can have the 'trio' :) will keep me and my credit card busy enough.

 

However, YET AGAIN, still no confirmation on avoiding double-VAT and added customs fees. Firstly, despite what Hornby's own site indicates, it's difficult to get prices in Euros. Don't know if anyone else has experienced this but, they state that if you set your default address as a Euro-currency country, prices will automatically display in Euros. They don't. It takes quite an amount of furious clicking to get Euro prices. Not the end of the world, just another example of saying "it will do this" and it doesn't, which just makes me doubt other 'claims'.

 

The pre-orders displayed VAT this time, but did not indicate whether this was UK or French VAT. I need this clarification for the French tax authorities should I get charged VAT upon arrival of the goods. No mention whatsoever of the Customs Fees that are claimed to be paid by Hornby. Once more, this information needs to be provided for the relevant authorities should the annoying double-charge occur. I included a request for clarification on this in the same email. As I have requested clarifications in all my emails to customer services. Yet again, it was ignored entirely. 

 

It was a short email (unlike this post) - two paragraphs, each paragraph a question. Okay, so maybe someone was having a bad day and forgot to answer the second question but until I get an email addressed directly to me confirming the 'VAT and Customs Fees paid' claim, I will not place an order (even when stock comes in). Hornby have simply lost my trust. I think I must have tried to place pre-orders four times now. Each time, I have got a different result - undefined VAT included/no VAT included/"you are eligible for free UK postage" (?!) or a plain and simple "order cannot be processed" message.

 

By only allowing ordering through their own website, Hornby need to make sure they have put all the necessary systems in place to provide the information that will be required either by the French/EU authorities, or by Hornby themselves, if I try to make a claim back from them. I have no idea what Hornby would do if I sent them a 'French VAT and Customs Fees charged' document.

 

As I've given up on the idea of pre-orders, there is at least some time for these issues to be sorted. With claims of 'Spring 2023' delivery for the first items I want that leaves - even if things are on time - a few clear months to iron out the order process. I just hope somebody at Hornby is taking note that incoherent things are happening during pre-order placement. Certainly my emails don't seem to be getting the message through and, yes, I could phone but, call me difficult - I want it in writing.

 

I'm vaguely tempted to try placing an order for something in OO to see what info that displays - to see whether it's just the TT ordering process that isn't working correctly or if all orders from EU States are troublesome.

 

Please, I would love to know, has anybody following this topic placed an order from an EU State since the 5th of July 2021, from when Hornby indicates it would be handling the VAT and Customs Fees side of things, and got the necessary information on their order page/an invoice, along with not getting any additional fees slapped on upon arrival/had trouble getting reimbursed by Hornby if this has happened?

 

Maximum frustration levels have been reached...

 

 

 

This does not augure well for Hornby succeeding in European markets with TT120 unless they rethink distribution methods and partners?

 

Dava

[luke_stevens]

1 hour ago, Dava said:

This does not augure well for Hornby succeeding in European markets with TT120 unless they rethink distribution methods and partners?

 

Dava

 

I would think this is a temporary "sorting things out" issue. Once TT120 is up and running I'd expect it to be distributed from inside the EU to EU consumers. 

 

Hopefully Michanglais's set gets sorted out and is just single charged.

 

Luke

[Robin Brasher]

I hope that the supply of models to foreign countries gets sorted out.  Meanwhile a friend soldered some connecting wires to a controller on my Hornby TT:120 track and I am pleased to report that we were able to run some old Tri-ang TT locomotives.  One example was a kit built BR class 5MT on possibly a Tri-ang 'Windsor Castle' chassis with a Britannia tender.  This ran very well.

[luke_stevens]

3 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Luke, your diorama looks great with stock on the rails......

 

So, how many other sets are incorrect?

 

Thank you :) I'm waiting for my Easterner set... With a bit of weathering it should look rather good!

 

Luke

[frobisher]

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Maybe many of those phones are on a pay-monthly contract, so not actually hundreds of pounds up front?

 

And almost none of them insure the phone (I've lost track of the number of people coming into the shop to get a contract phone fixed after the first month or so and balked at the price to fix said screen and then lamenting that they've still got to be paying the thing off for the next couple of years....)

[Dava]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

I hope that the supply of models to foreign countries gets sorted out.  Meanwhile a friend soldered some connecting wires to a controller on my Hornby TT:120 track and I am pleased to report that we were able to run some old Tri-ang TT locomotives.  One example was a kit built BR class 5MT on possibly a Tri-ang 'Windsor Castle' chassis with a Britannia tender.  This ran very well.

Looks like a Britannia loco chassis as well from the valve gear, the Brit has an XT60 motor, the Castle motor is too wide for the Belpaire firebox which is why the Castle was so distorted. 
 

The new Hornby models are a huge advance in modelling fidelity from the original TT-3 of 65 years ago, probably more in the mechanical and electrical design than the body mouldings, where the best - the Brit, DMU, utility van and wagon bodies - have stood the test of time well. I moved away from TT-3 40 years ago because of the crude mechanisms, then used BTTB mechs as the basis for an 0-12 narrow gauge layout!

Dava

Dava

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I hope that the supply of models to foreign countries gets sorted out.  Meanwhile a friend soldered some connecting wires to a controller on my Hornby TT:120 track and I am pleased to report that we were able to run some old Tri-ang TT locomotives.  One example was a kit built BR class 5MT on possibly a Tri-ang 'Windsor Castle' chassis with a Britannia tender.  This ran very well.

 

Did it run OK through the TT120 point ?

 

Brit15

[Flying Pig]

5 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Re TT120 must admit I'm not keen on the tyre width & flange depths on that LNER engine. It rather negates the "exact scale to gauge" argument, because with such wide wheels some dimensions somewhere have had to give, to accomodate them!!

I should think it won't look so bad on diesels, when they come along.

 

 

That was always going to be the case, as has been pointed out several times on the plethora of TT120 threads.  Mix overscale wheels with scale gauge and something has to give - specifically anything outside the wheels has to be moved out to fit them in.  And the wheels were going to be overscale because of the mechanics of trainset curves and points, and because Hornby would be daft to go any finer than the NEM standards specify and compromise interoperability with Continental TT.

 

So some of the dimensions of the Gresley pacifics must be wrong, but Hornby seem to have done a good job of not making it glaringly obvious.  

[Ravenser]

11 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

You do spout some spurious information!

 I have a smartphone and my monthly bill is £6.77

 

 

I am looking at contracts for a new smartphone from Vodaphone , and they are running in the £20-30/month bracket.

 

I'm not looking at  high end phones (which were running at £40-60/month), and I'm not talking about SIM only contracts. Admittedly I'm not talking about the most basic smartphones either

 

But my point still stands - if you don't have internet access because you can't afford a mobile phone contract you are very poor indeed, and you are most unlikely to have the money to buy a Hornby trainset in TT:120

 

Therefore the claim that some of the potential market is excluded because TT120 is aimed at "poor people" and "poor people" can't afford internet access to buy an online only product - which is what I was reacting to - doesn't hold water

[luke_stevens]

5 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I laid my Hornby TT:120 track on the tables at Furzebrook Village Hall today.  The oval just fitted on a single table but I put it on two tables to avoid my non existent stock from falling on the floor.  We are lucky that our tables fit flush against each other and don't have lips. I am looking forward to receiving more track and some locomotives and rolling stock.

 

What do you think of the buildings?

 

Luke

[Dix120]

It's cold outside but not too bad. I was hoping to set up two tables on the sundeck to run the train but Mother Nature had other ideas. Oh well tomorrow  I will take over the living room and set up two tables and play.

 

First impressions on the models - very nice. Look very good. Nice and clean.  Those people I showed them to in the store yesterday, were very impressed. I think we have a winner here and will buy more.

 

I have enough Peco track to make a Minories setup with a small goods yard in front, but need two more trains, a pilot engine, a freight engine and a few good wagons. I'll have to wait until next year to buy those. It would be nice to have three appropriate passenger trains but I will run what I can get until the correct equipment is released.  I know that is sacrilege to the purists, but having been displaying TT Scale since 2011 with whatever equipment we can scrounge, I am not too bothered by that (yet).

 

The curves in the set are  a bit sharp, equivalent to Tillig BR2.

In our first TT-Tracks setup in 2011, we used Tillig BR1 and BR2 curves on our corner modules. They were too sharp.

The next setup we jumped to corner modules with BR4 (482mm 19") and BR5 (439mm 17 1/4") curves, and used those modules for years on our doughnut displays.

In 2027 we changed to a "U" shaped display with two return loops with R4 curves.

In 2017 I introduced 45 degree curves ( R6/R7 (nominal 20.7 in. and 22.4 in.).

In 2019 much larger multi-piece return loop modules with R6 curves were brought into service.  Also in 2019 the R10/R11 30 degree corner modules came into service.

In April 2022 I introduced the 22.5 Degree curve modules with R15/R16 curves. The bigger the curves, the better the equipment looks. For a very small group, we have come  along way since 2011. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Dix120

[Jeff Smith]

Ok, this is a bit off topic but relevant to operating a Minories type terminus.  Did brake third corridor coaches need to be turned so that the brake compartment was always at the end of the rake?  Also tender locos would need to be turned.....