Hornby announce TT:120

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

What Hornby is doing is going for models they can sell in big numbers and so they can keep the prices down - they really are a good price for what they are compared to OO.

Dont forget Hornby is selling direct to customer, Bachmann sells to retailers.

There would need to be sufficient margin buffer for that.

 

i’m not seeing how a TT tooling cost can be significantly less than a OO one myself… research, cads, cutting metal, squirting plastic, painting, assembly, box art etc…

they are not done by smaller sized people, or people working 1/3rd less hours or hopefully 1/3rd less pay etc than OO people etc..

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

24 minutes ago, Railpassion said:

Will Bachmann enter the market? I think there's rewards if they do.

 

I don't think Bachmann. I reckon they are firmly committed to N and 009 as their other scales.

 

But I wouldn't discount others in the future. Don't forget that PECO are going to be doing wagons so it's not just Hornby and retailers are stocking PECO.

 

I do find it sad that some want to kill it off before it takes off. Would they be doing that if it was a manufacturer other than Hornby I wonder.....

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

On 24/04/2023 at 17:28, Steamport Southport said:

I would expect them to get it right. They've released that one before in 00 so they've already done the research.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/98076/hornby_r3342_class_08_shunter_08489_in_br_blue/stockdetail

 

 

 

Jason

It was wrong in OO, 08489 was a WR example with GWR lamp brackets right into the 1990’s.

Hornby modelled it as a non-WR example.

 

ive done all the right things with the TT class 08’s… the EP faults I documented here, I sent them to Hornby, I told them at Warley, its up to Hornby but the GBRf one in particular was a real humdinger collection of errors at Warley.
Do I think they listened.. maybe a little less than my wife does.

I waited with baited breathe.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Les1952]

11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think Bachmann. I reckon they are firmly committed to N and 009 as their other scales.

 

But I wouldn't discount others in the future. Don't forget that PECO are going to be doing wagons so it's not just Hornby and retailers are stocking PECO.

 

I do find it sad that some want to kill it off before it takes off. Would they be doing that if it was a manufacturer other than Hornby I wonder.....

 

 

Jason

 

I asked Peco about their wagons yesterday at the York NGS Show, and they are some way off yet (only just gone into production was what I think was said, but don't quote me on that).  I did point out that my dealer can't order the small radius points without them appearing on the website as Peco haven't sent them any new catalogues.  Their rep did seem surprised that the TT part of the website was out of date and would mention it when he got back.

 

Les

 

[adb968008]

41 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I do find it sad that some want to kill it off before it takes off. Would they be doing that if it was a manufacturer other than Hornby I wonder.....

Hornby didnt enter TT alone, but two others read the room and left the field almost immediately

[Les1952]

I know Hornby regularly get a bashing over quality but I've just opened a brand new open wagon by Tillig.

 

It fell into three pieces as I took it out of the box- body, chassis and weight.

 

Les

 

BTW- now I've got Bregstadt set up again I've found that Easi-shunts work quite satisfactorily on the first pair of Hornby wagons I fitted them to.

[andrewshimmin]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Hornby didnt enter TT alone, but two others read the room and left the field almost immediately

 

I don't quite get this. If other manufacturers were serious about producing e.g. the Class 31 I think it was, why not produce it? Surely Hornby entering the market with track, rolling stock, publicity, etc, would only *boost* sales?

Sure, Hornby had a Cl 31 on their list, but not for several years. Someone else could have sold plenty of their version before that. Maybe Hornby would have dropped it in favour of something else.

I still don't get why they suddenly withdrew 🤷‍♂️.

[Flying Pig]

23 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I don't quite get this. If other manufacturers were serious about producing e.g. the Class 31 I think it was, why not produce it? Surely Hornby entering the market with track, rolling stock, publicity, etc, would only *boost* sales?

Sure, Hornby had a Cl 31 on their list, but not for several years. Someone else could have sold plenty of their version before that. Maybe Hornby would have dropped it in favour of something else.

I still don't get why they suddenly withdrew 🤷‍♂️.

 

Discussed at length on the Heljan 31 thread, from this post:

 

 

[adb968008]

45 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I don't quite get this. If other manufacturers were serious about producing e.g. the Class 31 I think it was, why not produce it? Surely Hornby entering the market with track, rolling stock, publicity, etc, would only *boost* sales?

Sure, Hornby had a Cl 31 on their list, but not for several years. Someone else could have sold plenty of their version before that. Maybe Hornby would have dropped it in favour of something else.

I still don't get why they suddenly withdrew 🤷‍♂️.

My opinion…

 

A bunch of manufacturers didnt just wake up one day and all independently decide to do TT.

When the big day came, Hornby land grabbed what two other entrants were planning.

maybe other entrants looked at it, saw it for what it was…

thought it risky, saw mixed reaction, saw the bad habits of OO had migrated to TT and decided to walk.

 

thats how I saw it.

 

I think TT is a good idea, but as with all start up ventures, timing is everything.

Had the money been up front and stock more coordinated, and been on shelves during Covid, I think it would have done well.

 

Having a half cooked range, drawn out over a half a decade, only available via 1 web site, launched during a recession (in all but name) at a time when spare cash for new ideas is spent on the heating bill instead, probably wasnt the wisest time.

Personally I think the range choice isnt aligned, (hotch potch comes to mind) and if it had been less protective and a more open market from the inception.. then there could be more players and thus promoting more rapid range growth, which means more adoption and more sales for everyone.

 

I signed up out of interest in TT but as its going to be a very long time before I can put together something that makes sense and of interest to me. Its firmly on the back of my mind and I watch with interest, but buying a GBRF 08 to shunt Pullmans doesn’t make sense and i’m not going to buy now and wait a decade.

I feel Hornby is committed at this point, so if its going to work, its going to need to pick a theme and expand it, for it to be a success. They jumped in with A3/A4 so it looks like LNER/ER steam..  so if it were me, diesels would be a 08/40/47/55 and steam would be like the J50/N2/B1/K1/L1 and run with that theme, then widen it from the midlands 3f/4f/Black5/8f/Jubilee and Duchess and into BR standards, Type2/3 diesels.

 

But right now it feels its trying to be jack of all trades, master of none, ring fencing the garden from all outsiders… I dont see that approach being successful unless they have deep pocket funds to finance the current approach in a greater detail and shorter timescale… either people will lose interest waiting or competitors will each lunch watching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

Just now, adb968008 said:

My opinion…

 

A bunch of manufacturers didnt just wake up one day and all independently decide to do TT.

When the big day came, Hornby land grabbed what two other entrants were planning.

maybe other entrants looked at it, saw it for what it was…

thought it risky, saw mixed reaction, saw the bad habits of OO had migrated to TT and decided to walk.

 

thats how I saw it.

 

I think TT is a good idea, but as with all start up ventures, timing is everything.

Had the money been up front and stock more coordinated, and been on shelves during Covid, I think it would have done well.

 

Having a half cooked range, drawn out over a half a decade, only available via 1 web site, launched during a recession (in all but name) at a time when spare cash for new ideas is spent on the heating bill instead, probably wasnt the wisest time.

Personally I think the range choice isnt aligned, (hotch potch comes to mind) and if it had been less protective and a more open market from the inception.. then there could be more players and thus promoting more rapid range growth, which means more adoption and more sales for everyone.

 

I signed up out of interest in TT but as its going to be a very long time before I can put together something that makes sense and of interest to me, its firmly on the back of my mind and I watch with interest, but buying a GBRF 08 to shunt Pullmans doesnt make sense and i’m not going to buy now and wait a decade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet the Hornby TT range potentially has more available within three years or so than Graham Farish had in their N gauge range for 10 years...

 

Minitrix and Lima didn't exactly have much either.

 

Most model shops wouldn't touch N gauge. You weren't going into your local model shop and coming out with N gauge train sets or locomotives.

 

They didn't even have a diesel until about 1980. If you wanted diesels then it was whitemetal bodies by manufacturers such as Langley on foreign chassis. The same goes for almost any steam locomotive as Farish only had about five of them.

 

Not even BR Mark Ones in the range. Only Pullmans and freelance coaches (Hornby have more out already).

 

So by that scenario N gauge shouldn't exist as it was doomed to failure.

 

Airfix and Mainline also took about five years to get close to a coherent range.

 

Does seem like people are just trying to kick Hornby.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

22 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yet the Hornby TT range potentially has more available within three years or so than Graham Farish had in their N gauge range for 10 years...

 

Minitrix and Lima didn't exactly have much either.

 

Most model shops wouldn't touch N gauge. You weren't going into your local model shop and coming out with N gauge train sets or locomotives.

 

They didn't even have a diesel until about 1980. If you wanted diesels then it was whitemetal bodies by manufacturers such as Langley on foreign chassis. The same goes for almost any steam locomotive as Farish only had about five of them.

 

Not even BR Mark Ones in the range. Only Pullmans and freelance coaches (Hornby have more out already).

 

So by that scenario N gauge shouldn't exist as it was doomed to failure.

 

Airfix and Mainline also took about five years to get close to a coherent range.

 

Does seem like people are just trying to kick Hornby.

 

 

 

Jason

 

i think your n gauge comparison is spot on actually.

N gauge was a lonely game until Bachmann and Dapol adopted it.

All through the 80’s and 90’s it was a tough one to be serious.

I was expecting it to die out.

 

Retailers didnt buy it as it was hard to sell, too specialist for many.

 

I bought a bunch of n gauge once, but as it was neither well detailed, nor easy to expand realistically, I gave up, as OO was expanding year on year.

I suspect much of that Farish stuff from the 90’s is in the bin now.
 

So if TT follows N Gauge, I should wait 30 years in a lonely furrow is that what your saying ?

Thats a big commit to ask, especially as 00 gauge in the 1980’s is a 1/10th of the range it is today.

 

as I said im the previous, TT can be built, but I feel the best way is to pick a niche and expand it, not try to boil the ocean at once… Asking the TT club members what they want, in which order, might be a good first step… they have a captive market after all, harness it as they are going to need to be much closer to the customer than with 00 to be successful imo.

 

Its not about kicking Hornby, its about kicking the approach, imo I think its wrong, but with course corrections could be very good. Given the genesis stage and everyone will be needing everything… more sets  (as its a theme) would also seem logical to me… my first 4 purchases in 00 were all sets combined together… it just made sense economically and dreamatically…just make the controller optional.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

i think your n gauge comparison is spot on actually.

N gauge was a lonely game until Bachmann and Dapol adopted it.

All through the 80’s and 90’s it was a tough one to be serious.

I was expecting it to die out.

 

I bought a bunch of n gauge once, but as it was neither well detailed, nor easy to expand realistically, I gave up, as OO was expanding year on year.

I suspect much of that Farish stuff from the 90’s is in the bin now.
 

So if TT follows N Gauge, I should wait 30 years in a lonely furrow is that what your saying ?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm saying give it a chance!

 

RTR British TT120 has only been going for seven months and there is already currently 66 items in stock from Hornby and about twenty from PECO. With some other items starting to appear.

 

Current TT range

 

The 08s and LMS coaches are imminent.

 

Coming soon

 

Can't people just leave others to make their own minds up without the constant sniping?

 

It's like me going on a rugby forum and telling them to watch football instead.

 

 

Jason

[Guest]

On 15/05/2023 at 20:03, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think Bachmann. I reckon they are firmly committed to N and 009 as their other scales.

 

But I wouldn't discount others in the future. Don't forget that PECO are going to be doing wagons so it's not just Hornby and retailers are stocking PECO.

 

I do find it sad that some want to kill it off before it takes off. Would they be doing that if it was a manufacturer other than Hornby I wonder.....

 

 

Jason

I think it a lot of this aversion towards TT is just that, as well as this otherwise typically British "this is the way we've always done it" mentality, with regards to OO and other established scales.

 

Put it this way, supposing Hornby were to pull the plug on TT (which of course is thankfully, highly unlikely), then given what I've already invested in this scale, it would feel like a slap in the face....

Edited June 19, 2023 by Guest

[adb968008]

Why would they pull TT ?

I think they have put too much into it to walk back now.

I think it could be more successful, done differently myself.
 

I’m suggesting a course correction, not abandonment.

 

I dont think its me thats being over sensitive here. If everyone thinks TT is rosy and perfect, why the sensitivity to anything that suggests change ?

 

Put it differently, I’d like to show TT the colour of my money too, but in a way that isnt a GBRF 08* pulling LMS coaches.

* and a GBRF 08 that looks close enough to the real GBRF 08 at 2023 standards of accuracy.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Railpassion]

It's a great scale, you can get so much more in.

 

Simon Kohler has done a great job in establishing a new British market and creating a buzz. It's a stunning achievement. He's positioned Hornby to have almost the entire market, as it did in dublo days.

 

There's huge growth potential and it's a great opportunity for another player to enter the field to help expand the market. 

All to play for.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Railpassion

[Guest]

On 15/05/2023 at 23:48, adb968008 said:

Why would they pull TT ?

I think they have put too much into it to walk back now.

I think it could be more successful, done differently myself.
 

I’m suggesting a course correction, not abandonment.

 

I dont think its me thats being over sensitive here. If everyone thinks TT is rosy and perfect, why the sensitivity to anything that suggests change ?

 

 

 

Well like I say, I don't actually believe they would, given what they have invested into it! I was merely commenting on the negativity from others here, those who seem like they wish it to fail.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Guest

[adb968008]

23 minutes ago, R. Knowles said:

Well to be honest, I don't actually believe they would, given what they have invested into it! I was merely quoting the negativity from others here, those who seem to wish it to fail.

I dont think it will fail, but waiting n gauge’s 30 years to be successful is too long imo.

 

Hornbys committed in, I think they either need to go deeper, or go in focussed.

If they wanted out, I suspect it would be selling the IP of the TT120 range as a business divison rather than a shut down.

 

Either way UK TT120 is here to stay.

 

Quote

There's huge growth potential and it's a great opportunity for another player to enter the field to help expand the market. 

All to play for.

Yes but its not to work if new entrants are stepped on, on day 1. It will hurt both companies, and frustrate that small customer base.

 

009 avoided that in its earlier years and its grown well.. inevitably some duplication would occur eventually in such a small pool of prototypes though.

 

TT is wholly greenfield, trying to own it all, by scatter gunning the range of eras and geographies without obvious focus seems odd, unless you've got a mega budget and your buying the market.

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Guest]

On 16/05/2023 at 00:02, adb968008 said:

I dont think it will fail, but waiting n gauge’s 30 years to be successful is too long imo.

 

Hornbys committed in, I think they either need to go deeper, or go in focussed.

If they wanted out, I suspect it would be selling the IP of the TT120 range as a business divison rather than a shut down.

 

Either way UK TT120 is here to stay.

 

 

And I should hope so too! I've no problem with constructive criticism and I also agree that maybe Hornby need to do more/better in promoting the range, but the point being is that there are those, who like I say, just look for any old excuse.

 

Steamport did also raised an interesting point earlier, would there be this aversion/disuation if it was some other manufacturer as opposed to Hornby? For example, if it was one of the much highly praised newcomers then I imagine the reaction would be quite different! ;)

Edited June 19, 2023 by Guest

[adb968008]

15 minutes ago, R. Knowles said:

 

Steamport did also raised an interesting point earlier, would there be this aversion/disuation if it was some other manufacturer as opposed to Hornby? For example, if it was one of the much highly praised newcomers then I imagine the reaction would be quite different! ;)

If a newcomer did join TT, would it raise TTs profile positively ?

Peco are in, but they do what they do best, and generally dont make waves doing it.

Who is Hornby targetting, kids, adults, mid aged or retired ?

Its too generic just to talk “space”.

 

I think it needs competition, as the risk of it becoming too much MVP / stale is too great.. the newcomers have redefined standards since 2015, and the overall apetite of the consumer has benefitted nearly everyone since then…

 

put it differently, if someone did step in, would those production schedules suddenly tighten ?

The hobby needs Hornby, its the Macdonalds of the industry.. everyone bashes it, but the restaurant industry would suffer without it… Pret a manger wouldnt be where it is without them.*

 

* i know they sold it in 2008.

Edited May 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Jeff Smith]

Coming in from the kit and scratch built side of the hobby, the Easterner Is the first rolling stock I have ever bought from Hornby.......and whilst I am not immediately planning a TT:120 layout I hope to build a modest WR/GWR layout when the stock becomes available.  I have already built the Peco signal box to get an idea of the degree of difficulty working in this scale - I will not be contemplating kit rolling stock however, even if any comes along!  The A4 and Mk1 coaches run well but I don't like sectional track and would use Peco track, especially having bought a Peco point which looks so much better than the Hornby one.

 

Although mainly a kit and scratch builder I did stray into RTR with Bachmann US On30 a few years ago.  I sold the layout but retained much of the stock.  Bachmann was the main producer of RTR in this scale and it was readily available over here five or more years ago.  Lately very little has been available or indeed new items added, the Baldwin Class 10 2-6-2 Trench Engine being the most recent.  I believe the bubble has burst for On30 RTR and would hate to see British TT:120 suffer the same single supplier fate!

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

009 avoided that in its earlier years and its grown well.. inevitably some duplication would occur eventually in such a small pool of prototypes though.

I might have already made this point earlier in the thread but 009 is different from TT120 in that it was already a well-established, popular scale (at least by NG standards) and has been for decades. And while there wasn’t really RTR duplication until recently there was a stage at which some kits (modern, easy to assemble 3D prints and plastic as well, not just some obscure old item that wouldn’t be looked at by a mainly RTR modeller) were being duplicated, either by RTR or other kits.

 

Also I don’t think the disappearance of RTR in 009 would cause a huge problem as many of us who model in it would just go back to what we did before, or are still doing anyway - a mix of kitbuilding, scratchbuilding, modified H0e equipment and N gauge chassis, generally with Peco track (which existed prior to the new RTR in 009). It still feels like a scale where you mostly make things yourself (although for a lot of people, including myself, this doesn’t usually include loco chassis, as these are available RTR from N gauge, so it’s not a scratchbuilder’s scale in the way that something like S or finescale 3mm is) but the new RTR releases are extremely helpful. Standard gauge 00 is almost the other way round in that it’s mostly RTR with some support from kits, and I’m not sure which pattern is going to be followed by British-outline TT120 yet.

[frobisher]

10 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

I don't quite get this. If other manufacturers were serious about producing e.g. the Class 31 I think it was, why not produce it? Surely Hornby entering the market with track, rolling stock, publicity, etc, would only *boost* sales?

Sure, Hornby had a Cl 31 on their list, but not for several years. Someone else could have sold plenty of their version before that. Maybe Hornby would have dropped it in favour of something else.

I still don't get why they suddenly withdrew 🤷‍♂️.

 

Hornby's approach is somewhat all encompassing, but with no proper indication of time scales.  Until Hornby has actually released some of the promised items that seemed to gazump those other announcements, is it a commercial risk you would take to "dip a toe" to the tune of several hundred thousand pounds?  Duplication at this stage of the game on locos in particular would be a very bad thing.  The early indications were that Heljan were aiming at a different price/feature point than Hornby as well, which could have been catastrophic.  Heljan cut their losses at the tens rather than hundreds of thousands of pounds point.  I'd not rule Heljan coming back for a second stab down the line when it is obvious how Hornby's development cycle is working in this instance, and I'll call their Deltic now in that regard.

[Roy L S]

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yet the Hornby TT range potentially has more available within three years or so than Graham Farish had in their N gauge range for 10 years...

 

Minitrix and Lima didn't exactly have much either.

 

Most model shops wouldn't touch N gauge. You weren't going into your local model shop and coming out with N gauge train sets or locomotives.

 

They didn't even have a diesel until about 1980. If you wanted diesels then it was whitemetal bodies by manufacturers such as Langley on foreign chassis. The same goes for almost any steam locomotive as Farish only had about five of them.

 

Not even BR Mark Ones in the range. Only Pullmans and freelance coaches (Hornby have more out already).

 

So by that scenario N gauge shouldn't exist as it was doomed to failure.

 

Airfix and Mainline also took about five years to get close to a coherent range.

 

Does seem like people are just trying to kick Hornby.

 

 

 

Jason

 

I don't think it is especially helpful to compare the supply v's expectation of N in the early 70s with the same for TT120 today, the World has changed very significantly in the intervening 50 years.

 

In any case, I think at launch, Farish committed to adding a new item of rolling stock every two weeks or so, it grew very quickly into a decent range. True. locos were fewer, but were at least compatible with the rolling stock that was being made available. They produced "Super Liveway" N track too, plus a battery controller of sorts and sets.

 

HOWEVER critically, they were not alone in the market, there was already Lima, Minitrix and Peco, each producing their own locos, rolling stock and track. Farish many not have produced diesels or MK1 coaches then, but Lima and Minitrix both did (we won't mention the quality of Lima but it was available). 

 

I began modelling in British N in 1975 when just into my teens, and based on my own personal experience, far from not touching N, my local model shops stocked it comprehensively alongside OO, it was readily available and there was choice.

 

So with respect, your comparison with where N was then and Hornby TT120 is now is invalid. British N was never doomed to failure, it was even at the outset quickly supported by a number of manufacturers whose ranges grew to provide (by the standards of the time) a comprehensive level of products. 

 

By comparison, aside from Peco covering track, accessories and in due course the odd wagon, Hornby is on its own and success of TT120 as a UK modelling scale is much more in the hands of them and their ability to bring a coherent range of models to the Market at speed and it is here where for me question marks are starting to develop. 

 

From launch, Hornby have a certain "golden" period to bring in the TT120 range and develop the scale to a point where it is coherent and sustainable, and for sure I believe they are still within that "window" at the moment. However there is a dependency on a steady stream of products arriving and so far Hornby have managed that, but what concerns me slightly is the lead times for some of the other products announced seemingly slipping and there being maybe a year and a half or more before further locos follow the 08 as appears possible now.

 

So IF Hornby do have other products up their sleeve and in development and IF these will arrive sooner, then I feel it would be in Hornby's interests, not least because they have the Market to themselves at present and minimal competitive risk, to lower the cloak of secrecy and tell their customers what other unannounced products there will be and when.

 

For myself, and to be honest, I embraced the idea of TT120 and was keen to have a go alongside my other primary modelling interest (N) but nothing I am reading currently encourages me to spend any more or pursue the small layout I was planning further. 

 

Perversely, from where I am viewing things at present, it seems that Hornby having the British TT120 Market pretty much to themselves may actually turn out to be a bit of a two-edged sword...

 

Roy

[andrewshimmin]

There are a lot of people here a bit disgruntled that Hornby haven't released the stock for a coherent small branch terminus layout set in a particular region.

 

I think that may misunderstand the economics of model railways.

 

Hornby released Gresley pacifics not branch locos because they can sell many many more of them because they're glamorous locos.

The market for a coherent but relatively obscure set of stock is much less than for an eclectic mix of glamorous stock.

Most of that market is maybe playing trains not modelling, or is modelling but not spending time on forums, so we don't hear so much from them. Although we are out there!

 

If you don't believe me, look at Hornby's or Bachmann's or Dapol's or any other manufacturer's current range in any scale. It will not be a coherent range representing a region or era, and it will have big locos and fast locos heavily overrepresented. Because they can sell more.

 

The reason that you can build up a coherent range in say OO or N is because you can get stuff from various manufacturers, over a number of years of their ranges evolving, and supplement with kits from various sources, etc.

 

Of course that doesn't exist yet in TT120. For the scale to be a big success it would need to come in time. We just don't know yet whether it will.

 

But I can no more model an L&Y layout in 1920s Lancashire or a 1980s suburban station using just Hornby OO or just Bachmann OO or whatever than I can in TT120.

Maybe a 1960s steam/diesel transition if I buy from their output of the last 20 years and don't worry too much about precise details.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you get the point.

[Roy L S]

13 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

There are a lot of people here a bit disgruntled that Hornby haven't released the stock for a coherent small branch terminus layout set in a particular region.

 

I think that may misunderstand the economics of model railways.

 

Hornby released Gresley pacifics not branch locos because they can sell many many more of them because they're glamorous locos.

The market for a coherent but relatively obscure set of stock is much less than for an eclectic mix of glamorous stock.

Most of that market is maybe playing trains not modelling, or is modelling but not spending time on forums, so we don't hear so much from them. Although we are out there!

 

If you don't believe me, look at Hornby's or Bachmann's or Dapol's or any other manufacturer's current range in any scale. It will not be a coherent range representing a region or era, and it will have big locos and fast locos heavily overrepresented. Because they can sell more.

 

The reason that you can build up a coherent range in say OO or N is because you can get stuff from various manufacturers, over a number of years of their ranges evolving, and supplement with kits from various sources, etc.

 

Of course that doesn't exist yet in TT120. For the scale to be a big success it would need to come in time. We just don't know yet whether it will.

 

But I can no more model an L&Y layout in 1920s Lancashire or a 1980s suburban station using just Hornby OO or just Bachmann OO or whatever than I can in TT120.

Maybe a 1960s steam/diesel transition if I buy from their output of the last 20 years and don't worry too much about precise details.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you get the point.

No, I do not misunderstand, I have been modelling for a very long time.

 

The initial TT120 set launch was obviously intended as some kind of "hero" products to entice people in and it was priced accordingly, however you cannot establish a new scale based around A3s, A4s and "glamorous" coaches alone. 

 

Actually look at Bachmann and Dapol's OO steam ranges and your statement couldn't be further from the truth. In fact in terms of "big fast" the only steam ones Bachmann are currently listing are an A1 and a V2, all the rest range from heavy freight locos through mixed traffic types to tank locos. Dapol's current OO steam offer shows no "big fast" types, the largest is a Manor - firmly Mixed Traffic. 

 

From both manufacturers diesels and electrics represent a cross-section.

 

In N, as far as steam goes all Bachmann currently list are mixed traffic types, rolling stock not glamorous and while Dapol's range does include express types, it is balanced with heavy freight and mixed traffic and tank locos at the other extreme. Nothing glamorous about Dapol's Gresley corridor coaches, they could be found on any kind of train, I have even seen pictures of a single coach forming a branch-train in the Borders, the same lack of glamour applies to their GW and southern coaches.

 

Again, diesels represent a mix, not just "glamorous".

 

Both diesel and Electrics from major manufacturers include the likes of workaday multiple units.

 

Yes of course the established ranges from different manufacturers complement each other and allow a more representative layout and nobody is realistically expecting Hornby to achieve anything like that in TT120 even in the medium term, my specific concern is the seemingly lengthening timelines and lack of clarity about what is coming and when. Without it I fear that people's patience will last only so long and they will turn their backs on TT120.

 

Roy