Hornby announce TT:120

[Jeff Smith]

I'm not quite sure what a bundle is as it contains all that a set contains.  I guess it is Hornby's way of selling sets that were not packed as a set in China.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

I'm not quite sure what a bundle is as it contains all that a set contains.  I guess it is Hornby's way of selling sets that were not packed as a set in China.

They were I think initially meant as a short term fix when train sets were out of stock. They’re fairly similar to the sets but the Flying Scotsman bundle had lit Pullman coaches and 4 coaches rather than the 3 in the Blink Bonny train set. That bundle also had track pack 2 in addition to track pack 1. It suited my needs better. They’re created from warehouse stock rather than being packed as a set in China. 
They’re now even better value as they didn’t get a price increase. 

[Jeff Smith]

It would be nice to just have the rolling stock bundled at a discounted price, unless of course you need two ovals of the same radius track and two controllers!

[Porfuera]

7 hours ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

They were I think initially meant as a short term fix when train sets were out of stock. They’re fairly similar to the sets but the Flying Scotsman bundle had lit Pullman coaches and 4 coaches rather than the 3 in the Blink Bonny train set. That bundle also had track pack 2 in addition to track pack 1. It suited my needs better. They’re created from warehouse stock rather than being packed as a set in China. 
They’re now even better value as they didn’t get a price increase. 

 

I agree about them being a short term fix, but now both Scotsman sets contain lit Pullmans - the analogue set has been redesignated from TT1001M to TT1001AM, presumably to reflect the fact that it now contains lit carriages. The digital set obviously hasn't arrived yet but that also comes with lit Pullmans.

 

Presumably Hornby found it too much effort to produce both lit and unlit Pullmans (IIRC the unlit ones were never available to buy separately) so they've dropped the unlit ones.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Porfuera

[Porfuera]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

It would be nice to just have the rolling stock bundled at a discounted price, unless of course you need two ovals of the same radius track and two controllers!

 

I mentioned this previously - it would be nice if Hornby produced just 'train packs' (either loco + carriages or loco + wagons) and then produced 'track packs' separately for people that don't already have track, controller, power supply, etc.

 

Even better, the 'track packs' could also be provided with a choice of R1, R2, R3 or R4 curves, rather than just having the R3 curves that come with the existing sets and bundles. After all, what is the use of multiple sets of R3 curves? But even then, you'd still be getting another controller and power supply that you probably don't want, especially if you're running DCC or if you prefer to use a different DC supply to the one supplied by Hornby.

 

However, I believe I've read that the bundles don't receive the Club discount so even if 'train pack' bundles were available it might still be cheaper to buy the items separately until such time as the TT:120 Club discount runs out.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Porfuera

[LNER_Fan]

Hornby seem to be having trouble getting/keeping both the sets and bundles in stock, period. 

Presumably, they have a handle on the sales data that tells them how many are going to "repeat" buyers who have no use of a second/third/etc trainset controller and loop of track, vs. people taking their first bite of the TT:120 apple... And can adjust accordingly.

[Steamport Southport]

On 22/07/2023 at 13:05, jonnyuk said:

They may know it’s a train and called a tank engine, that is entirely different to knowing what a tank is and what they are used for prototypically, they are not going to know what a j94 is, where it was located and what it pulled 

 

If they've ever read or watched Thomas The Tank Engine they would have a vague idea. And I would suggest that virtually every kid that has grown up in the last forty years would have seen it or read it. 

 

Just looking at the pictures shows what trains they pulled. Thomas pulled a couple of coaches and sometimes goods wagons. Percy the same, but mostly wagons and so does Duck and Diesel. And there is also Pug, Jinty, Bill and Ben and a few others. Not that difficult.

 

Never understood the idea that everyone needs an encyclopaedic knowledge of railways just to play with a train set!

 

That's something they learn if they are interested, and as has been stated numerous times these are aimed mostly at beginners rather than the dedicated modellers.

 

And I would also reckon that many of them have seen an Austerity at their local heritage railway often masquerading as a Thomas character. There's actually one in the books called Wilbert.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest]

14 hours ago, LNER_Fan said:

Hornby seem to be having trouble getting/keeping both the sets and bundles in stock, period. 

Presumably, they have a handle on the sales data that tells them how many are going to "repeat" buyers who have no use of a second/third/etc trainset controller and loop of track, vs. people taking their first bite of the TT:120 apple... And can adjust accordingly.

The two original bundles have only just gone out of stock and the Trigo bundle is still available.  
 

I expect that new bundles will be created as the range matures. The current bundles are very much aimed at those entering the scale and are an alternative to train sets while they re-stock. 

[Les1952]

Lifted directly from Hornby's TT:120 website today.

 

PHASE 3

 

Phase Three sees the introduction of two main BR diesel locomotive stalwarts, these being the Brush Class 37 and the Brush Class 47.

There will be variants of both, ranging from their early introduction right through to their days in Privatisation.  (The picture next to this is the 9F in case anyone like me was wondering...)

 

PHASE 4

 

Phase Four will see the arrival of the Class 31, again in various liveries and formats. For those interested in steam locomotives 'The Great Western Castle' will be introduced in various liveries and periods as well as two 0-6-0 locomotives namely the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank.  (as a non-sequitur the picture here is a class37).

 

 

There you are, straight from the Horse's mouth.  What isn't said is when these will appear, just where they are in the pecking order.

 

I think I might have a little longer than I had imagined before starting the UK outline layout.  NO PLACE has a life extension.  Just as well as I've just had an invoice for a G5 I had forgotten I ordered way back in 2018.....

 

 

 

[Hroth]

Just got an email from Bure Valley Models announcing that they will be stocking the complete range of Hornby TT:120.

 

https://www.burevalleymodels.com/c/282/TT:120

 

Lets hope Hornby can keep their output up!

 

[teletougos]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Just got an email from Bure Valley Models announcing that they will be stocking the complete range of Hornby TT:120.

 

https://www.burevalleymodels.com/c/282/TT:120

 

Lets hope Hornby can keep their output up!

 

Does anyone know how or have recent experience of getting to the Bure Valley Rwy on public transport? 

[Porfuera]

16 hours ago, teletougos said:

Does anyone know how or have recent experience of getting to the Bure Valley Rwy on public transport? 

 

I don't know whether this is of any help but there is some info here regarding Traveline buses and also trains - there seems to be an (almost?) interconnecting station at Hoveton & Wroxham Station:

 

https://www.bvrw.co.uk/contact/find-us

[andrewshimmin]

2 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

I don't know whether this is of any help but there is some info here regarding Traveline buses and also trains - there seems to be an (almost?) interconnecting station at Hoveton & Wroxham Station:

 

https://www.bvrw.co.uk/contact/find-us

 

Yes easy transfer at Wroxham from the Norwich-Cromer line to the BVR.

There's a cycle path alongside the BVR throughout.

And buses at the Aylsham end.

Have done it many times.

 

But not in TT scale!

[Porfuera]

On 25/07/2023 at 22:44, Les1952 said:

Lifted directly from Hornby's TT:120 website today.

 

PHASE 3

 

Phase Three sees the introduction of two main BR diesel locomotive stalwarts, these being the Brush Class 37 and the Brush Class 47.

There will be variants of both, ranging from their early introduction right through to their days in Privatisation.  (The picture next to this is the 9F in case anyone like me was wondering...)

 

PHASE 4

 

Phase Four will see the arrival of the Class 31, again in various liveries and formats. For those interested in steam locomotives 'The Great Western Castle' will be introduced in various liveries and periods as well as two 0-6-0 locomotives namely the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank.  (as a non-sequitur the picture here is a class37).

 

 

There you are, straight from the Horse's mouth.  What isn't said is when these will appear, just where they are in the pecking order.

 

I think I might have a little longer than I had imagined before starting the UK outline layout.  NO PLACE has a life extension.  Just as well as I've just had an invoice for a G5 I had forgotten I ordered way back in 2018.....

 

This was an excellent spot, Les. The page is https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/future and it took me a while to find it on the Hornby site.

 

I think the reason for the picture of the 9F is that these also scheduled for Phase 3 IIRC but can't think of a reason for the picture of a Class 37 next to Phase 4.

 

There's a bit more at the end:

 

What's to come

 

Beyond Phases Three and Four, there will be a whole variety of modern image EMUs, not to mention several small tank locomotives, plus additional train sets, buildings, rolling stock and virtually everything you need to create your ideal Hornby TT:120 model world.

 

As you mentioned there are no dates for Phases 3 and 4 and it got me wondering where we currently are with respect to the Phases i.e. whether we are still Phase 1 or whether we're into Phase 2 yet.

 

Unfortunately there wasn't really any distinction between Phase 1 and Phase 2 in the catalogue but I'd say we're still in Phase 1 until such time as the TTAs and the 21T minerals arrive (both were originally scheduled to be very early I think). However, there might be a bit of overlap between Phase 1 and Phase 2 since it looks like some Phase 2 items (Duchesses and Class 50s) are now scheduled to arrive at the same time as the 21T minerals in Spring. We just have to hope that some of these dates are a bit pessimistic.

[teletougos]

3 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

Yes easy transfer at Wroxham from the Norwich-Cromer line to the BVR.

There's a cycle path alongside the BVR throughout.

And buses at the Aylsham end.

Have done it many times.

 

But not in TT scale!

Brilliant, thank you.  It sounds more like an adventure than a hassle. 

[Ravenser]

On 26/07/2023 at 16:52, teletougos said:

Does anyone know how or have recent experience of getting to the Bure Valley Rwy on public transport? 

 

If the Sheringham branch is running , its a short walk between the two stations at Wroxham 

[LNER_Fan]

6 hours ago, Porfuera said:

Unfortunately there wasn't really any distinction between Phase 1 and Phase 2 in the catalogue but I'd say we're still in Phase 1 until such time as the TTAs and the 21T minerals arrive (both were originally scheduled to be very early I think). However, there might be a bit of overlap between Phase 1 and Phase 2 since it looks like some Phase 2 items (Duchesses and Class 50s) are now scheduled to arrive at the same time as the 21T minerals in Spring. We just have to hope that some of these dates are a bit pessimistic.

When TT:120 was launched, Hornby (via SK) clearly indicated they intended for phases 1-4 to comprise roughly the first year of availability. Equally clearly, that is, and will not be, happening - to the point that I'm really not sure the phases as defined mean anything at all beyond a shopping list of models that they definitely have planned for the scale.

I'm eagerly awaiting the 9F and Black 5, along with the rest of the steam-era freight wagons, as there's really not much to do but run express trains in loops at the moment. But those are sometime off in Phase 3, clearly after the diesels they're currently trying to highlight.

I sincerely hope post-SK Hornby are as dedicated to the new scale as he seemed to be, and differences along these lines aren't a contributor to his departure...

Edited July 27, 2023 by LNER_Fan

[Roy L S]

Having made my initial investment in TT120 I have since reached the conclusion that the very "hard sell" initially with promises of a rapidly widening range was to get people engaged, purchasing sets and buying into the scale.  As time has passed, it has become increasingly clear to me that those early promises were never truly realistic, and it has got to the point where it is now anyone's guess when we will see phases 2, 3 and 4 products, never mind anything beyond that.

 

About three months ago I therefore reached the conclusion that as no locos and little stock that I would really wish to run will be available at all for probably another two or three years (and then only possibly just a few) there was really little point in continuing with building a layout where I have nothing but an 08 to use on it. I have for that reason parked the idea of a TT120 side-project and for now boxed up and stored the purchases I have made to date, and depending on how things progress will decide in maybe 12 months whether it is worth keeping them or selling them on.

 

Disappointing, but then if Hornby's target market is more those people wanting to run an A3 pulling 3 coaches round an oval of track on a track mat, that isn't me anyway.

 

Roy

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

You've got to consider how long it took Graham Farish to have an N Gauge range. Or how long it took Airfix and Mainline to get close to having a range of models where you could actually build a layout using only their products.

 

You really are talking about a three to five year project. The basics are there already. You've got track, buildings, etc. At least three loco types. A few coaches and wagons. Easily enough for a beginner to set up a small two track roundy layout. 

 

This is what Airfix had in their first catalogue.

 

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/ARSysA.htm

 

Then a few more were added about a year after.

 

http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/ARSysSup.htm

 

Notice the Hales Fuels wagon. Looks familiar, definitely a nod back to Airfix.

 

 

I do think that people are being spoilt by ranges that now have 200 plus locomotives in them. ISTR that in the mid 1970s Hornby only had about ten in their entire catalogue!

 

 

Jason

[andrewshimmin]

2 hours ago, LNER_Fan said:

When TT:120 was launched, Hornby (via SK) clearly indicated they intended for phases 1-4 to comprise roughly the first year of availability. 

 

That's never how I understood it. As far as I remember the timing was never given precisely (that's why they're called phases not years) but it was supposed to be Phases 1 & 2 in the first year to eighteen months. Phases 3 & 4 were never going to be earlier than two years in, even with the initial estimated dates.

e.g. the Nov 2022 Railway Modeller talks about Phase 1 as 2022 introduction and Phase 2 as 2023 introduction.

Clearly all the dates slipped pretty much from the start, so Phase 1 is basically 2022-23, and Phase 2 looks like being 2023(if we're lucky)-24(most likely).

I've always taken it as approximately one or two steam and one or two diesel locos a year, plus a couple of carriage types and some wagons.

It must be extremely frustrating for Hornby, who want to sell TT120 even more than we want to buy it! After all, they must have invested a lot and need to recoup it.

So I'm sure they'll do what they can to bring stuff out as soon as possible.

[Les1952]

As noted above last year's heatwave in China took out several weeks of production for a good proportion of ALL manufactured good coming from China.

 

The current heatwave is expected to decimate Chinese production for EVERYONE for even longer.

 

Between the two you are getting beyond three months of slippage just for high temperature.   Of course RMWebbers appear to be castigating Hornby for not anticipating this.....

 

Les

 

 

[Roy L S]

19 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

As noted above last year's heatwave in China took out several weeks of production for a good proportion of ALL manufactured good coming from China.

 

The current heatwave is expected to decimate Chinese production for EVERYONE for even longer.

 

Between the two you are getting beyond three months of slippage just for high temperature.   Of course RMWebbers appear to be castigating Hornby for not anticipating this.....

 

Les

 

 

 

No Les, 

 

Hornby have over-promised and under-delivered as far as TT120 is concerned it is as simple as that, nobody forced them to, they are as aware of prevailing manufacturing headwinds and market conditions as anyone else.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[natterjack]

It would have been foolhardy for Hornby to have any but a small number of their projected models ready for production before a TT120 demand had been both verified and established- thus we get a rather limited pilot introduction;  already extended to include  goods services. One cannot expect too much to have reached the 'production ready' status before that pilot stage but I anticipate we can expect an acceleration of that process now as Hornby will want to get our pennies as soon as possible.

 

For a variety of reasons, problems with Chinese manufacture seems to be an increasingly common and we can be sure that climate change will become an increasingly disruptive factor in long supply chains directly resulting in extended lead times and probable rising costs.

[Dava]

On 22/07/2023 at 18:31, andrewshimmin said:

 

But that wasn't the point being made. The point (as I understood it) was that even people who aren't particularly well versed in loco classes might see a tank engine for sale, and like the look of it...

If you’re given a model J94 or pannier tank, you might be curious about what it is and does. They are quite common on heritage railways. I only knew what a Midland 3F was because it turned up in my train set! Sadly none actually survived. HSTs will be heritage trains by the time the Hornby sets arrive.

 

Dava

[natterjack]

33 minutes ago, Dava said:

HSTs will be heritage trains by the time the Hornby sets arrive.

They already are- witness the Blue Pullman.