Cost of attending exhibitions

[ColinK]

I’ve put flyers for our exhibition in Christmas Cards.

[298]

On 25/10/2022 at 20:13, Chris M said:

I was involved in discussions about this back in the early days of the Warley NEC show. It is true to say that, for a good sized fee, it is possible for the car parking to be free to visitors. Obviously the price of admission would have to be higher to cover the extra payment to the NEC. This would mean that those travelling by train were effectively subsidising those travelling by car. At the time we felt that would be wrong. 

The shows that provide free parking tend to be those where there are a lot of big businesses involved and pretty much all the space at the show is rented to trade exhibitors. At model railway exhibitions of course a lot of space is taken up by layouts that have to be paid expenses.

 

I can't remember paying to park at fairly recent swapmeets at the NEC. Perhaps it was regarded as "small fry" and not worth getting the extra staff in...?

[Chris M]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

I can't remember paying to park at fairly recent swapmeets at the NEC. Perhaps it was regarded as "small fry" and not worth getting the extra staff in...?

A swap meet gets trade stand rental plus visitor entrance money without the expense of bringing in layouts. That makes it a very different financial proposition.

[John M Upton]

There was one show (Fareham) a few weekends ago who were very lacking in publicity this year, they had no list of layouts attending or traders up until almost the day before the doors opened which was very odd.

Edited October 27, 2022 by John M Upton

[TheQ]

 I used to arrange a visit to SWMBO's family for the EMGS north show, sadly they are no longer with us.😪.

 From next year I'll be able to choose the dates of visiting my family in central Scotland .😀

 

A collection of random thoughts below,

 

There is one "local" show 35miles away that never seems to advertise, it's not even on the model shop directory,  hence I've missed it a couple of times.. I'm betting others have too.

 

My club does try to advertise, flyers, The model shop directory, railway magazines, I put it on model railway forums, local Facebook sites, it does pay off.. all of that is free or very cheap.

 

We've recently decided one venue will be a permanent site for our August show, our May show is going to a hall we've used before, but is under review . Both of those are of course as long as the show stays viable and as long as the halls stay available. Hopefully the fixed sites will generate a regular clientele, as well as attracting visitors. We are in a tourist area, so both halls and dates are chosen to attract holiday makers, as well as enthusiasts.

 

We lost our big show because the hall was withdrawn from use by anyone but the owners, we could find no other halls of a suitable size for a big show that were economic.

As a byproduct, two little shows are so much easier to organise, both halls we use are closer to club, and everyone in the club is happier with them.

 

Advertising, for a big show you can have a booklet with adverts and it's easier to attract advertiser's. For a little show with a one page layout map and much fewer visitors, advertisers are harder to find.

 

Most of the other club members go on Sundays, but I sail almost every Sunday throughout the year , also a good proportion of the membership live 20 miles away from the club or me, so that makes car sharing more difficult. ( Note my sailing costs over the years, are less than many spend on model railways)

 

Going to the big shows means travelling, for those of us that live on the edges of the UK, it means a long distance to anything, it now can take me 1/2 hour to reach a dual carriageway, 2.5 hours to a motorway and that's nothing compared to other places like Inverness or the Hebrides.. 

 

The situation of everyone is different, there are many places which make public transport impossible, so travelling by car is essential . 

If the profits for food is mostly going to the venue not an MRC I tend to take my own.

 

[Chris M]

On 25/10/2022 at 20:41, Phil Parker said:

 

The first time we visited Warley, my Dad and I walked from Moor Street. Let's just say we caught the bus back and every time thereafter! 

Surely Rolfe Street not Moor Street.

 

[298]

9 hours ago, Chris M said:

A swap meet gets trade stand rental plus visitor entrance money without the expense of bringing in layouts. That makes it a very different financial proposition.

 

Something in the figures just isn't stacking up tho, Adult entry price is £9 so there is still a potential shortfall against the parking fee.

 

Also one event page in the NEC website says "organiser paid parking", but a different page allows you to book and pay for parking in advance. It's just another example of how the NEC needs to do better.

[Chris M]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Something in the figures just isn't stacking up tho, Adult entry price is £9 so there is still a potential shortfall against the parking fee.

 

.

Remember that every stand at a toy fair will also have paid to be there, probably quite a large sum. So toy fairs have two good income streams and pretty much the only outgoing is to pay the NEC. Very different to a model railway exhibition which has a lot of expenses to cover for the layouts.. 
I don’t have any access to or knowledge of Warley NEC costs. The NEC will know exactly how much revenue they get from Warley show parking. If the club were to include free parking in admission price then the admission price would have to go up in order to cover the extra charge from the NEC. Just to keep the maths simple, if say 1 in 3 visitors currently pay to park their car and the cost of car parking is £12 then the ticket price would have to go up by £4 each in order to provide “free” parking. Like I say I have no knowledge of the actual figures but you can see the principles of how free parking would have to work. 
In the case of a toy fair which provides “free” parking anyone travelling by train to the fair is effectively subsidising the cost for those arriving by car. Maybe the admission price to the fair could be £5 if parking wasn’t “free”.

[Not Jeremy]

On 25/10/2022 at 16:20, Allegheny1600 said:

I’m not telling anyone any such thing!

I’m saying why I no longer enjoy it.

If exhibition attendance drops off - would you rather know why or just carry on in blissful ignorance?

 

Based upon a lot of the guff on this thread I'd go for blissful ignorance every time....

 

Regarding car parking charges at the NEC, (or anywhere, actually)  just wait until they start using ANPR as part of their armoury of techniques for revenue maximisation.

 

It has been introduced for those attending and unloading at this year's NEC show and I have to say that it makes me wonder if I will be supporting future events there, it has caused at least one demonstrator to pull out to my knowledge.

 

No doubt outside the control of the organisers.

 

ANPR licensed off for profit by HMG of course🇬🇧

Edited October 27, 2022 by Not Jeremy
a y

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, Chris M said:

Surely Rolfe Street not Moor Street.

 

 

Nope. Moor Street. It was a loooooong walk!

 

[Not Jeremy]

Quote

this is a point that I have tried to raise awareness of, to ignore is akin to shuffling deck  chairs on the titanic. 

 

This is the best line in this thread so far, pretentious, portentous, pompous, pessimistic, pointless, pedantic - it has absolutely everything going for it.

 

Taking your analogy, I'd suggest it's more like the skipper of a coastal steamer engaged in sludge dumping in South Devon being more worried than he really needs to be about Icebergs in the Atlantic.

 

[PaulRhB]

34 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

just wait until they start using ANPR as part of their armoury of techniques for revenue maximisation.

 

It has been introduced for those attending and unloading at this year's NEC show and I have to say that it makes me wonder if I will be supporting future events there, it has caused at least one demonstrator to pull out to my knowledge.

Thing is the same system is monitoring you around the country regardless as if you report in cars involved in crime the officer told me they just put it into the ANPR system and get traffic to pick it up on motorways. It’s also now in at most railway stations in our area. 
 

I suspect it won’t be long before some are covering their cars with tin foil 😁

 

It still strikes me that everyone is moaning about something they know will happen, for the reasons Chris has outlined several times over the years, and still go or do they just go on the thread to moan? 😝

 

I will be waiting until two weeks before to see if there’s a strike and if not what the split ticket train vs car cost is. I’m helping on a layout on Sunday and paying on Saturday to support it as I’ve enjoyed it over the years. 
 

Here’s to a good show!

Edited October 27, 2022 by PaulRhB

[RedgateModels]

41 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

it has caused at least one demonstrator to pull out to my knowledge.

 

 

Really? it's not even operating for Sunday breakdown ....

 

Quote

I've received some updated guidance from the NEC this afternoon. The Voyage system will not be in operation for our breakdown on the Sunday afternoon. There is no requirement to register vehicles on Voyager for the breakdown. However, all other guidance still applies

 

Me, I'll just park up in the East car park and barrow my stuff in - much easier 😉

[Michael Hodgson]

6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Thing is the same system is monitoring you around the country regardless as if you report in cars involved in crime the officer told me they just put it into the ANPR system and get traffic to pick it up on motorways.

 

Just wait till some entrepreneur sets up a system like real time trains for cars.

Come to think of it, it's an idea that could make me as rich as Jeff Bezos.

It's not Big Brother watching you. ....it's your old lady, who will be able to see exactly where you went....

 

[AY Mod]

52 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Really? it's not even operating for Sunday breakdown ....

 

I know who's being referred to and it was more additional hoop-jumping that he didn't want or need (he, like you, was giving up his weekend) - at that time it was said that the system would be in operation at set-up and breakdown without enough clarity on the implications.

[PaulRhB]

This register system is happening at quite a few pubs attached to hotels now. The only real issue is they make it such a faff to register rather than having an OCR scanner you just swipe a copy of your reg under and confirm. You have to register your car if you go just to eat too, it won’t be long before it’s everywhere for parking I guess. I managed without a work email for six years until they decided you could only register for the new ANPR through a company email! 
Technology makes our lives simpler . . . 😝

[ikcdab]

Honestly I feel the NEC parking is a ripoff.  Notwithstanding that it should be free, the £12 (or £18) cost is extortionate compared with what I pay for parking elsewhere.  It's purely a profit making exercise for the NEC for a captive market.  I am going and I will pay the carparking fee, but not happy about it.  Just means I will spend less inside!

 

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

Honestly I feel the NEC parking is a ripoff.  Notwithstanding that it should be free, the £12 (or £18) cost is extortionate compared with what I pay for parking elsewhere.  It's purely a profit making exercise for the NEC for a captive market.  I am going and I will pay the carparking fee, but not happy about it.  Just means I will spend less inside!

 

Whilst it won't suit everybody all the time; as pointed out earlier in the thread, parking a couple of stations away, for free, and buying a 2-3 quid return rail ticket is a cheap way of getting round the problem. They won't change the car parking charge if people keep using it.

[melmerby]

7 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

parking a couple of stations away, for free, and buying a 2-3 quid return rail ticket

OK as long as they don't go on strike.☹️

 

I'm planning to go by train virtually all the way, with only a short drive to a free station carpark.

If they go on strike I wont be able to get there very early by using buses.

[Willie Whizz]

I'm not arguing that Warley Show car parking prices should be "free" - that's unrealistic, because all that would happen is the cost would be added to the Hall rental, and therefore to the Exhibition ticket price.  I would have no objection to paying, say, a fiver.  It's not as though there's much in the way of infrastructure or facilities to maintain; it's basically a tarmac field, no ramps or roof or loos.  But the actual prices the NEC charge are a rip-off for what you get.

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

  It's not as though there's much in the way of infrastructure or facilities to maintain; it's basically a tarmac field, no ramps or roof or loos.  But the actual prices the NEC charge are a rip-off for what you get.

And the only thing that will have any effect is if people don’t park there but they are always rammed so it’s unlikely to change. The alternative options are well known, use the train and park elsewhere or don’t go. 
 

I think this is becoming a tradition, maybe we need a national moaning about NEC parking day? Or a statue to celebrate the long fight against rip off parking. Then they can have an argument about whether it should be designed by a competition and then be handed over to the sculptor in residence anyway. And then there’s how it represents all groups  oppressed by the parking charges?  Then they’ll put up the parking charges to pay for it . . . 
 

😇

[Not Jeremy]

Quote

Me, I'll just park up in the East car park and barrow my stuff in - much easier.

 

Bully for you Mr Trolleysworth, but that's not much help to anyone taking a layout to the show or to any of the many traders with a van to unload is it?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Not Jeremy
Trolleysworth

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

but they are always rammed so it’s unlikely to change.

 

Very true but what I have a problem with is the traffic management at the end of Saturday; it's taken an hour or more to get out of the South car park before now as everyone is coming in for evening ents at the same time as the majority are trying to leave from the day shows. It's regularly a stalemate.

[RedgateModels]

10 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

Bully for you Mr Trolleysworth, but that's not much help to anyone taking a layout to the show or to any of the many traders with a van to unload is it?

 

You did talk about a demonstrator, so I put my demonstrator's experience forward as an example of how you could attend as a demonstrator and not have the hassle of the NEC access systems to get to the side of the venue. I don't think I am alone in this approach although I expect that the club demos piggy back on vans that are already heading through the maze of passes/slips/Voyage etc

[RedgateModels]

6 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Very true but what I have a problem with is the traffic management at the end of Saturday; it's taken an hour or more to get out of the South car park before now as everyone is coming in for evening ents at the same time as the majority are trying to leave from the day shows. It's regularly a stalemate.

 

agreed, and this year I'm only heading from East to the Crown Plaza but still expect to get held up LOL