Class 33/0 to class 33/1

[ikcdab]

I have a Heljan green class 33/0.

I now want to modify this to a class 33/1 for use with a 4-tc set.

Apart from repainting, the most obvious change are the jumper cables.  It seems that these used to be available from craftsman, but these have disappeared.

Any idea where I can now get them from or how to fabricate them?

Ian

[woodenhead]

Have you considered Heljan spares:

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/media/downloads/OO_Class_33_Spares_Diagram.pdf

 

This is the 33/1 and I can see various cables available, there's a bit of a process to get hold of them (assuming they have stock):

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/news/article/view/id/157/

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget you need the buffing plates as well. Try MJT/Dart Castings as they do both if you can't get them from Heljan.

 

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/1111.php

 

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/1113.php

 

 

Have you considered just buying a 33/1 in the livery you want? 😛

 

 

Jason

[nigb55009]

D6580 was the first loco fitted with push-pull equipment and was used for testing. It was the only class 33/1 to

carry green livery. If you have a blue 4TC set there would be no need to repaint the loco. A smaller than usual

yellow warning panel was applied, it fitted between the high level air pipes/ MU cables. The loco was converted

in 1965.

[45125]

9 minutes ago, nigb55009 said:

D6580 was the first loco fitted with push-pull equipment and was used for testing. It was the only class 33/1 to

carry green livery. If you have a blue 4TC set there would be no need to repaint the loco. A smaller than usual

yellow warning panel was applied, it fitted between the high level air pipes/ MU cables. The loco was converted

in 1965.

6580 didn't have the buffing plate or a buckeye when first converted.

[nigb55009]

Agreed, the buffing plates were fitted later. The original high level air pipes were connected to the locos

bufferbeam by pipes fixed to the cab front. These were also altered later, to match the other locos in the

sub-class. I presume D6580 was also repainted blue at the same time.

There are a couple of photos on this site of D6580 in green livery. The exterior metal pipe work and small

buffing  plate can be seen  clearlyHeljan also made a model of it, I think the catologue number was 3346.

 

[ikcdab]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget you need the buffing plates as well. Try MJT/Dart Castings as they do both if you can't get them from Heljan.

 

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/1111.php

 

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/1113.php

 

 

Have you considered just buying a 33/1 in the livery you want? 😛

 

 

Jason

Thanks for the links.  I have been trying to reconcile the whitemetal shapes with pics of an actual class 33/1.... It's difficult to see the similarity! Have you seen these parts in the flesh?

[ikcdab]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Have you considered just buying a 33/1 in the livery you want? 😛

Yes.  But for me the modelling fun is creating things myself.  Especially when a new loco is the price they are.  I like the idea of having a go at repainting it myself. 

It's just the jumpers that are the sticking point... The buffing plates look to be fairly easy to scratchbuild.

Ian

[pete_mcfarlane]

Watch out for the roof - this was extensively modified in the 1960s (after one of the locos filled the cab with CO and the crew passed out and crashed). Main differences are exhaust position, lack of silencer, and method of retaining the removable centre section - there are clips on the rebuilt locos. So a green Heljan 33 painted blue might not be completely accurate. 

 

[45125]

1 hour ago, nigb55009 said:

Agreed, the buffing plates were fitted later. The original high level air pipes were connected to the locos

bufferbeam by pipes fixed to the cab front. These were also altered later, to match the other locos in the

sub-class. I presume D6580 was also repainted blue at the same time.

There are a couple of photos on this site of D6580 in green livery. The exterior metal pipe work and small

buffing  plate can be seen  clearlyHeljan also made a model of it, I think the catologue number was 3346.

 

D6580 at Eastleigh, in as first converted.

original photo by Chris Hurworth, original now in my collection.

 

Al Taylor.

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

Thanks for the links.  I have been trying to reconcile the whitemetal shapes with pics of an actual class 33/1.... It's difficult to see the similarity! Have you seen these parts in the flesh?

 

Not personally. BR D&E era isn't really my thing anymore, I just occasionally dabble in it these days and mostly SR EMUs.

 

But other items in the range are very good and I would expect them to be far better than the ancient Craftsman versions which ISTR originated in the late 1970s.

 

You could look for the Craftsman 33/1 detailing kit, but they go for really daft amounts on eBay.

 

I have got the MJT etches for a 3H somewhere so parts like that are on the shopping list.

 

 

Jason

[nigb55009]

I see what you mean about the buck-eye coupling. I hadn`t noticed before.

[markw]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Not personally. BR D&E era isn't really my thing anymore, I just occasionally dabble in it these days and mostly SR EMUs.

 

But other items in the range are very good and I would expect them to be far better than the ancient Craftsman versions which ISTR originated in the late 1970s.

 

You could look for the Craftsman 33/1 detailing kit, but they go for really daft amounts on eBay.

 

I have got the MJT etches for a 3H somewhere so parts like that are on the shopping list.

 

 

Jason

There is also the Replica Railways versions

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/mainsep1/menuaccess

[jonhall]

 

if you (or anyone else) want any of these for the price I paid many years ago (plus the cost of a large letter stamp as postage) it would reduce the volume of clutter in my workshop by 0.000001%

 

probably worth noting that on the dart castings website one of the jumper cables is shown from the rear!

 

Jon

 

[ikcdab]

7 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

if you (or anyone else) want any of these for the price I paid many years ago (plus the cost of a large letter stamp as postage) it would reduce the volume of clutter in my workshop by 0.000001%

 

probably worth noting that on the dart castings website one of the jumper cables is shown from the rear!

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon, thanks and yes please. Ill send you a PM.

Ian

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Watch out for the roof - this was extensively modified in the 1960s (after one of the locos filled the cab with CO and the crew passed out and crashed). Main differences are exhaust position, lack of silencer, and method of retaining the removable centre section - there are clips on the rebuilt locos. So a green Heljan 33 painted blue might not be completely accurate. 

 

 

Agreed - @ikcdab I assume from what you have said that you will not be doing the oddball D6580 in green but undertaking a repaint into blue - do you have one of the earlier green ones with an incorrect slightly flat roof profile or one of the later retooled versions? The earlier models all had the later roof detail regardless of livery (from memory D6517/26/53/81/82/83/85 - roof detail correct for the last four, hence the grouping - and D6553 in green full yellow) - green versions of the later retooled model had the exhaust silencer panel at No 2 end which wouldn't be correct for a blue Class 33/1.

[ikcdab]

6 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

Agreed - @ikcdab I assume from what you have said that you will not be doing the oddball D6580 in green but undertaking a repaint into blue - do you have one of the earlier green ones with an incorrect slightly flat roof profile or one of the later retooled versions? The earlier models all had the later roof detail regardless of livery (from memory D6517/26/53/81/82/83/85 - roof detail correct for the last four, hence the grouping - and D6553 in green full yellow) - green versions of the later retooled model had the exhaust silencer panel at No 2 end which wouldn't be correct for a blue Class 33/1.

oh dear, i feel a can of worms has been loaded into the tin opener.

I actually have an early version and a retooled version. My early version took a dive to the floor some time ago and lost windows and acquired some scuffs. So this is the one i intend to repaint into BR blue, 1967 ish time period, eg when running numbers still had D prefix and so that I can partner it up with an early full blue 4-TC.

So do i need to modify the roof also?

Ian

[Halvarras]

40 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

oh dear, i feel a can of worms has been loaded into the tin opener.

I actually have an early version and a retooled version. My early version took a dive to the floor some time ago and lost windows and acquired some scuffs. So this is the one i intend to repaint into BR blue, 1967 ish time period, eg when running numbers still had D prefix and so that I can partner it up with an early full blue 4-TC.

So do i need to modify the roof also?

Ian

 

Nope - out of the two you have the right one hit the floor (phew!) I admit it is a bit confusing talking about the early model with the later roof.......just to be sure, if the engine exhaust on the unlucky subject is sort of central and off to one side, that's what you need for a blue one.

Many (most/all?) of Heljan's diesels are assembled with a minimum of glue, some  quite clever tooling involved to achieve this but some glazing is a simple push-fit from the outside - I had an early-model Class 33 (blue D6579) arrive with one windscreen rattling around in the box - luckily I spotted it before the carpet monster did........if Gaugemaster can't supply replacement glazing for yours Shawplan's Lazerglaze range may be able to help (I haven't checked availability but the range is quite extensive). Or make your own - fiddly but do-able.

[lapford34102]

Just to add to what's already been said   you'll have to modify the cab handrails as well.  The KA ( TOPS 33/0) had 2 that went from under the cabside window right round to under the headcose and another on the other side as per your model. The KB ( TOPS 33/1) has 3 rails, cabside to just round the front - jumpers-  handrail - jumpers - handrail, if you have a look a photos it's pretty clear. Good source here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/albums/72157627812692593

The bottom edge of the cab front cut back to clear the rubbing plate modification, not that noticeable but there and while we're at it to be completely accurate you'll need larger buffers, the TC fit had 22" compared to 20" on the unfitted but it's not  really worth the hassle plus the horn enclosure on the cab roof needs filling in for a pre-TOPS one.

Stu

 

 

[ikcdab]

8 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

Just to add to what's already been said   you'll have to modify the cab handrails as well.  The KA ( TOPS 33/0) had 2 that went from under the cabside window right round to under the headcose and another on the other side as per your model. The KB ( TOPS 33/1) has 3 rails, cabside to just round the front - jumpers-  handrail - jumpers - handrail, if you have a look a photos it's pretty clear. Good source here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/albums/72157627812692593

The bottom edge of the cab front cut back to clear the rubbing plate modification, not that noticeable but there and while we're at it to be completely accurate you'll need larger buffers, the TC fit had 22" compared to 20" on the unfitted but it's not  really worth the hassle plus the horn enclosure on the cab roof needs filling in for a pre-TOPS one.

Stu

 

 

Thanks, yes I can see the pile of jobs is increasing, but I am happy to tackle it. I can't get the paint until i go to Warley, in the meantime other projects beckon!

Ian

[ikcdab]

28 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

Nope - out of the two you have the right one hit the floor (phew!) I admit it is a bit confusing talking about the early model with the later roof.......just to be sure, if the engine exhaust on the unlucky subject is sort of central and off to one side, that's what you need for a blue one.

Many (most/all?) of Heljan's diesels are assembled with a minimum of glue, some  quite clever tooling involved to achieve this but some glazing is a simple push-fit from the outside - I had an early-model Class 33 (blue D6579) arrive with one windscreen rattling around in the box - luckily I spotted it before the carpet monster did........if Gaugemaster can't supply replacement glazing for yours Shawplan's Lazerglaze range may be able to help (I haven't checked availability but the range is quite extensive). Or make your own - fiddly but do-able.

Thank you. Luckily i combed the floor and the carpet monster yielded up all of the missing windows. They are rattling round in the box along with the interior plastic "light channels" for the marker lights that seem slightly more complex to refit.

Ian C

[SRman]

Beaten by Stu to the cab handrail modifications needed.

I would suggest that if you are using the earlier 33/0 body, that had a rather too flat roof profile (obvious if you put it side by side with a 33/1 from Heljan, or the newer 34XX catalogue numbers of 33/0). this can be disguised a bit by filing/sanding the cab roof profile to round them off a bit, particularly where Heljan had a slightly squared off "shoulder" over the cab side windows.

These are rather old photos but they show the 33/0 with modified cab roof profiles on the left, beside a standard 33/1 from Heljan.

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, SRman said:

Beaten by Stu to the cab handrail modifications needed.

I would suggest that if you are using the earlier 33/0 body, that had a rather too flat roof profile (obvious if you put it side by side with a 33/1 from Heljan, or the newer 34XX catalogue numbers of 33/0). this can be disguised a bit by filing/sanding the cab roof profile to round them off a bit, particularly where Heljan had a slightly squared off "shoulder" over the cab side windows.

These are rather old photos but they show the 33/0 with modified cab roof profiles on the left, beside a standard 33/1 from Heljan.

 

I see what you mean - that's really quite successful. I have a couple (D6579 & D6583) that would benefit from this treatment, although I don't have a 33/1 to show them up......

[Phil Bullock]

12 hours ago, nigb55009 said:

D6580 was the first loco fitted with push-pull equipment and was used for testing. It was the only class 33/1 to

carry green livery. If you have a blue 4TC set there would be no need to repaint the loco. A smaller than usual

yellow warning panel was applied, it fitted between the high level air pipes/ MU cables. The loco was converted

in 1965.

And in late 60s was often to be seen at RTC Derby. 

[ikcdab]

Out of idle interest, can anyone tell me what the various jumpers do? Do both sides have to be connected up or are they duplicated?

One side seems to have a pair of cables and a socket, the other side has another pair and a third cable.

Thanks.