Bournemouth Electrification & TCs

[robertcwp]

Looking at the 10 July 1967 Waterloo carriage workings, the fast and semi-fast trains are shown as 4 TC, 4 Rep, 4 TC. There was only a fast at xx30 from Waterloo every other hour (1030, 1230, 1430 Mon-Fri). On the even hour the xx47 semi-fast included a Weymouth portion. There was also a 1530 Bournemouth formed EDL, 4 TC, 3 TC, 4 TC.

 

There was a xx13 Basingstoke/Portsmouth & Southsea formed 4 Vep for Basingstoke and 4 Hap for Portsmouth. Also a xx43 Bournemouth/Alton train formed 4 Vep for Bournemouth and 4 Hap for Alton.

 

In the evening peak, the 1630 was listed as 4 TC (Weymouth), 4 TC, 4 Rep (Bournemouth). The 1730 (listed as 1730 1/2) was 4 TC, 3 TC, 4 TC, EDL for Bournemouth. There was an 1800 1/2 formed 4 TC, 3 TC (Salisbury), 4 TC, EDL (Basingstoke). There were several 8 Vep, 4 Hap departures but I could only find one that was 12 Vep.

 

On Saturdays there was an 0955 formed DL, 4 TC, 3 TC (Swanage), 4 Vep (Bournemouth).

 

DL = diesel loco; EDL = electro-diesel.

[keefer]

some interesting info at the SEMG site, where they have a selection of articles from 'the railway magazine'.

 

bournemouth electrification : http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/BournemouthElect.pdf

third rail to bournemouth : http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/ThirdRailBomo.pdf

 

interesting to read of the options being considered at the time especially in 'southern region topics 1965':

http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/SouthernRegionTopics65.pdf

 

where a lot of research is detailed re: the stock and how it would be operated (although on other lines, presumably these test would pave the way for the REP/TC/loco combinations)

 

regarding the REPs, the final DMSs were the last mk1 stock built in 1975, at which time the mk3s and HST were coming on stream!

[eastwestdivide]

While the 442s were being built (using recovered REP traction motors), there were some odd formations involving 33s/73s and partial sets I think. Did any de-motored cars return to service temporarily? I've a bunch of photos somewhere, but not yet scanned from that changeover era.

On the subject of REPs running alone, I've previously posted a photo of a single 4REP forming a Royal Train working to Maidstone East (Maundy money ceremony I think), but I can't find either the scan or the old post - it was an earlier version of rmweb.

 

Must go and have a rummage.

[keefer]

certainly in the 80s, the REPs and TCs could be a bit mix'n'match, especially when it came to royal useage.

for example a TC but with a REP buffet car in place of the TFK hauled by a 'royal' loco like 73142 'broadlands'

[griffgriff]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the cl 50 + TC London - Salisbury (Yeovil) and return semi fasts. an interesting turn to say the least

[Tim H]

Think at least one demotored 4-REP came back into traffic, when they reformed three complete 4-Rep sets using the five remaining DMSs plus one resurrected one.

 

There was a time when 50+4TC sets worked through to Exeter, when some of Mk2 stock on that route was being overhauled.

[4630]

I *think* a REP could work with a single MLV/2-EPB/2-HAP without tripping the circuit breakers. I doubt if this combination happened very often in service!

 

That is correct. My copy of the Sectional Appendix to the working Timetable and Books of Ruels and Regulations (from 1976) states that a 4-Rep may only work in multiple with a single 2-EPB, 2-Hap, 2-Sap or a single motor luggage van.

 

This was to ensure that the Total Conductor Rail Current Index of 16 was not exceeded. 4-Reps had an index no. of 14 (as did class 74. Class 73 had an index of 8), whereas the units mentioned above had an Index No. of 2. So if coupled together the total index would equal the maximum permitted. I agree that the combination wouldn't happen very often in service!

 

Four car units such as 4-EPB, 4-Bep/Cep, 4-Big/Cig and 4-Vep had an Index No. of 4.

[eastwestdivide]

Found one: 73/1 plus 3 cars of a REP*, plus a TC.

1988 near Frimley aqueduct.

* or at least the centre two - can't recognise if the 3rd coach is a REP motor or a TC driving car

[4630]

4-Rep 2002 sits at Bournemouth Central platform 2 awaiting departure time on a fast service to London Waterloo.

 

Picture taken circa 1986.

 

 

 

Does anyone know if Platform 1 at Bournemouth Central has any booked services arriving or departing in the current timetable? The platform was used for the '93' stopping service after the 1967 electification until electification was extended to Weymouth in 1988. After privatisation Connex operated a service to Bournemouth which used Platform 1 but if I recall correctly that was eventually cut back to Southampton. Apart from seeing the very occasional South West Trains 450 in Platform 1, I don't recall any booked services in recent years.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The 1979 timetable had the following basic Mon-Sat arrangements:

 

XX.35 off Waterloo (Summer) 8TC [Weymouth] + 4REP [b'mth]

(Winter) 4TC [Weymouth] + 4TC/4REP [b'mth]

 

XX.42 off Waterloo 4VEP [b'mth] + 4VEP [Alton]

 

XX.46 off Waterloo 8TC/4REP [b'mth]

 

 

Just taken down the England flag for another 2 (or maybe 4) years.....

 

Don't think anything is scheduled for Plat 1 at B'mth. The last thing I saw in there was occasionally a spare 3-CIG off the Lymington branch. Currently both of the 3-CIGs are still stabled in the carriage cleaning shed at BM Depot along with a Cl.73

[4630]

The 1979 timetable had the following basic Mon-Sat arrangements:XX.35 off Waterloo (Summer) 8TC [Weymouth] + 4REP [b'mth] (Winter) 4TC [Weymouth] + 4TC/4REP [b'mth]XX.42 off Waterloo 4VEP [b'mth] + 4VEP [Alton]XX.46 off Waterloo 8TC/4REP [b'mth]

 

Just to add to your post; after the introduction of the full electric service to Bournemouth on 10th July 1967 the '91' fast service was originally timed to depart London Waterloo at xx:30 and arrive at Bournemouth Central 100 minutes later at xx:10. If I recall correctly the electric service was marketed as '100 miles in 100 minutes'. Marketing people never like to let the facts get in the way of a good campaign message as Bournemouth Central is actually exactly 108 miles from Waterloo. The 108 mile post is mid-way down the long patform 3 - 4. The 100 mile post is adjacent to Walkford T P hut.

 

Just taken down the England flag for another 2 (or maybe 4)

 

Me too. What with Vettel winning the European GP in Valencia and the England team losing to Germany - my wife's German boss will be insufferable tomorrow in their regular weekly conference call. I've told her "Don't mention the war".

 

Don't think anything is scheduled for Plat 1 at B'mth. The last thing I saw in there was occasionally a spare 3-CIG off the Lymington branch. Currently both of the 3-CIGs are still stabled in the carriage cleaning shed at BM Depot along with a Cl.73

 

Thanks for the information about Platform 1. I hope it gets used regularly again although my preference would be to see a Blue and Grey 4-Vep there waiting to form the next xx:12 '93' stopper.

[Bert Cheese]

When new, there were lots of stories about the speeds obtained by REP drivers, many of whom must have been recently re-trained from steam, where urging on your steed was a rather more skilled activity! ISTR a figure of 123 mph being quoted by a colleague who'd heard from close to the (management) source.

 

Most likely in the hands of Frank "Mad Monk" Matthews who is said to have wrung 120 mph from the class 74's too on the juice rail too back in the day.......it was said that some of the young second man at Waterloo refused to ride with him such was his reputation for pushing the limits.

 

There were certainly some odd combos during testing, my dad recalls having a 4TC+33/1+4VEP+73/1 or such on one occassion when the 33/1 conversions were still on trial, he jokingly told the overseeing inspector (Roy Porter of Basingstoke) that if anything went wrong the chair was his for the taking....though fortunately the SR had got things spot on as usual

 

Just a pity I was too young too appreciate such things, some of the thousands of miles I travelled in the cabs of 33's and 47's may have been spent on Warships and Big E-D's had I been born 10 years earlier........mind you I'd be knocking 50 now, and the thought of being a mere 40 fills me with a strange fear

[DY444]

On the subject of REPs running alone, I've previously posted a photo of a single 4REP forming a Royal Train working to Maidstone East (Maundy money ceremony I think), but I can't find either the scan or the old post - it was an earlier version of rmweb.

 

Must go and have a rummage.

 

In the early 80s when I was working in Bournemouth there was actually a diagrammed turn for a REP running on its own. The 2212FO Bournemouth - Basingstoke was booked 4REP (the rest of the week it was 4REP + 8TC). Blistering acceleration and waiting time at every stop. Happy days.

[roythebus]

The info above regarding REPs working in multiple is correct; however, the REPs could physically work in multiple with any of the BR era EMU stock, PROVIDING traction motors somewhere in the consist were isolated to prevent exceeding the "16" rating.

 

There was an evening peak working from Waterloo which was usually 4VEP or CEP+4TC+33/1, split at Basing for Salisbury, from 4 to Bomo. Sometimes the loco would be in the middle just to add to the confusion.

 

During the Plastic Pig conversion era, there was all sorts of odd formations, including top and tail 73s with REP and TC...no motors in the REP. I was learning the Bomo line at the time. My railway career was cut short during that era by management.

 

I knew the Mad Monk, Frank Matthews. He and I didn't see eye to eye over union matters. He sadly was killed in an accident at West Brompton after I left railway service. He was indeed a fast driver.

 

Was Roy Porter any relation of Gordon Porter?

 

The odd REP workings on the Portsmouth direct line were fun. And fast.

[yellowvanman]

Pic of 3 TC + 3 REP and ED combo on a down fast at Millbrook ( sorry for repeat of this one ,seen in Southern region 1980s thread)

[Guest Belgian]

 

Mentioned previously above "Not exactly new units, being endowed with previous-generation underframes I think,"

 

With typical SR ingenuity - all were converted from looc-hauled MK1 coaching stock - I did once see a list of the previous identities (In an old Platform 5 coaching stock book I think).

 

 

I don't think this has been commented upon elsewhere in this thread, but if it has, please forgive me duplicating it.

 

Most of the stock was converted from BR mk1 loco-hauled stock - all the TC coaches were - but the REP power cars were brand new and were a few inches longer than the ex loco-hauled vehicles. I believe that the 8 power cars built for 3012-15 in 1974 were the very last Mk 1 passenger vehicles built. The REP intermediate cars were conversions.

 

I may be wrong, but I think the REPs were specified as 100mph stock and that the main line from Woking to Basingstoke was passed for 100mph from the inauguration of electrification in 1967. (Or was this from 1988 when the 5-PIGs were introduced?).

 

Following the introduction of the latter three 6-REPs were formed from the remaining vehicles which hadn't had to give up their control gear and traction motors to the new units, plus some TC vehicles. These lasted for around three years and usually ran without other units, thus having 3,300 hp for just 6 cars, possibly one of the most well-endowed trains in service anywhere in BR days!

 

JE

[kintbury jon]

The 6REP's only had one motor coach per unit but often ran in pairs.

 

 

[Guest Belgian]

The 6REP's only had one motor coach per unit but often ran in pairs.

 

Thanks for that - I had truly believed they had two power cars all this time! I now see there were five of them the planned sixth one never appearing due to one REP unit being written off at Clapham.

[Gwiwer]

With a 4Rep having enough installed power in two coaches to shift 12 coaches at 100mph it follows that a 6Rep with a single power car would have virtually the same power : weight ratio i.e. one motor coach to power a total of six coaches. The 73's were sometimes the only power on a train and sometimes added as insurance during the changeover to Wes units. Some trains were rostered 8TC (or equivalent, however formed!) + 2x73/1. If that happened they flew; when only a single 73 was available and there was no other power in the train it would struggle to keep time.

 

The booked VEP+TC+33/1 (splitting at Basingstoke) could also prove to be a flyer thanks to the amount of power despite the differing acceleration and braking characteristics of the electric and diesel traction.

 

Where now is the compatibility and flexibility the SR worked hard to achieve?

[roythebus]

Don't forget there was a SO working 8VEP/CEP+4TC to Bomo. The 4TC trailing had to have an oil tail lamp, the reason being that the roller blind tail light could fail if the 4TC batteries went flat. There was no power jumper from the VEP/CEP to the TC unit; there was also no heating in the TC, hence it was a summer only working! It was also the reason the TC was trailing; flat battery=no control power=no go!!

 

We had some weird and wonderful workings on the Southern.

[SRman]

It hadn't really occurred to me before but the REPs were cleared for 100mph running whereas the 73s, with identical power equipment and bogies, were only cleared for 90mph. Even with full power available (as in 2 x 73 + 8TC) they would have lost a little time on long, fast stretches.

[Southernman46]

It hadn't really occurred to me before but the REPs were cleared for 100mph running whereas the 73s, with identical power equipment and bogies, were only cleared for 90mph. Even with full power available (as in 2 x 73 + 8TC) they would have lost a little time on long, fast stretches.

 

 

 

Oh believe me - the 73's were capable of doing more than 100mph !!

[Gwiwer]

Oh believe me - the 73's were capable of doing more than 100mph !!

 

And did so on rather regular occasions with 8TC attached. 2x73+8TC clocked at over 90mph would be the swansong equivalent in some ways to steam in its last days. Let's just say on one run a 5 minute late start from Waterloo was on time by Southampton with the locos at the back. Not necessarily what you might expect with a train officially restricted to a slightly lower speed than that which the timetable allowed for. In fairness to all parties I don't have the working times and those might have included more than adequate recovery and pathing allowances.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Found this. It's 33108 + 4TC + 8VEP (apparently. I'm only going on what the caption says)

 

 

[robertcwp]

Found this. It's 33108 + 4TC + 8VEP (apparently. I'm only going on what the caption says)

 

There were a couple of peak hour workings like this for several years in the 1980s. The 33 and TC went to Salisbury and the Veps to Eastleigh or Basingstoke.

 

Here is a view of Bournemouth in 1967, with 33s and 73s in the old steam shed in the background: Bournemouth 1967