Bournemouth Electrification & TCs

[Gwiwer]

Good old Southern innovation. Where else in recent times could you find rostered mixed-mode traction with diesel and electric on the same train*, both powering and both controlled by the one driver which ever unit (or loco) was leading?

 

The headcode 62 indicates that the train - or in this case the leading portion of it - is a semi-fast Waterloo - Salisbury (or any point to Exeter) working. When split the Vep(s) behind will show 92 from Basingstoke for semi-fast Waterloo - Eastleigh (or any point to Weymouth); if timetabled to stop all stations from Basingstoke then 93 (stopping service) might be used instead. If the electric portion was leading it would show 92 from Waterloo, not 62, because that is the headcode applicable to its journey.

 

The usual formation was 33/1+TC+Vep(s) but the SR 27-way control cable and unit / loco compatibility meant that it could equally be formed with the Vep leading / loco pushing or even with the loco amidships such as TC+33/1+Vep. Gone are the days of such flexibility and interest.

 

 

 

* : OK I know there was a 66+92 powered freight a couple of years ago; I even got some shots of it coming through Willesden Junction. But the locos couldn't be put just anywhere in the train neither was it a passenger service!

[yellowvanman]

331+TC+TC+331 (posted before, sorry) ..I am sure this was a booked formation which split at Waterloo to form two trains? good old southern flexibility as Gwiwer says.

[roythebus]

Interesting days indeed. Especially after the changeover from steam to electric. Waterloo-Alton-Basingstoke services in the up direction, when the Alton portion was a 2BIL and the Basing bit was a 4VEP. Deffo NOT compatible. Yes folks, it happened.

[John M Upton]

The nearest I can think of in recent times was when a 8 car Class 377 formation got derailed on a landslip just north of Redhill and once re-railed was hauled to Selhurst by two four car Class 171's. The identical couplings (about the only thing that marks a 170 from a 171) actually made sense that day! Sixteen car train on the Brighton line though, just as well they were not all electric and taking juice!!

[AndyD]

Re 33/1+TC+TC+33/1...

 

The winter 1988/1989 timetable had I *think* a Yeovil Junction to Waterloo service propelled to Salisbury (TC+33/1), where a 33/1+TC were added for the run to Waterloo. I did the train from Salisbury in early Jan 89 but can't remember if the 33/1+TC was added to the front of the train at Salisbury or the rear.

 

AndyD.

[Adam]

Re 33/1+TC+TC+33/1...

 

The winter 1988/1989 timetable had I *think* a Yeovil Junction to Waterloo service propelled to Salisbury (TC+33/1), where a 33/1+TC were added for the run to Waterloo. I did the train from Salisbury in early Jan 89 but can't remember if the 33/1+TC was added to the front of the train at Salisbury or the rear.

 

AndyD.

 

I have a dim and distant memory of something like that. Although I don't recall exactly when, it must have been before I was 10 so 1988/1989 sounds about right. If I remember rightly the 4TC + 33/1 was simply hooked on the back of the extras on the front. I'm fairly certain there was a loco in the middle in any event.

 

Adam

[PhilH]

Oh believe me - the 73's were capable of doing more than 100mph !!

 

Apparently not very good at slowing down from 100mph though!

[Derekl]

Interesting too, to notice that these early SR experiments with high speed push pull have had widespread repercussions. 47 + 8 on the Glasgow - Edinburgh, followed by much the same on the WCML and the ECML (well, with 87s and 91s).

 

Over the water, in Europe (OK, sorry, a bit off UK prototype topic), you will find many fast regional expresses operated push-pull: Munich - Vienna I noticed a few years ago, and last week in Italy I noticed the regional sets on Rome - Florence were push-pull, and in widespread use on other services. Much like old SR - spanking new Bombardier locos on one end, sort of new converted DVT on the other, and 8+ 70s (or thereabouts) marginally spruced up coaches in between. (OK inside, but paint peeling on the outside).

 

Remarkable to think that high speed push-pull experiments from cash-strapped SR resulted in al this usage. Perhaps I am wrong, and they would have been doing it anyway, but I understand that it was the SR experience that extended push-pull as it has been.

[robertcwp]

Interesting days indeed. Especially after the changeover from steam to electric. Waterloo-Alton-Basingstoke services in the up direction, when the Alton portion was a 2BIL and the Basing bit was a 4VEP. Deffo NOT compatible. Yes folks, it happened.

In the July 1967 carriage workings the Alton portions alternated every half hour between Bil and Hap according to what they joined/divided with at Brookwood or Woking. I'm not surprised things went wrong from time to time.

[yellowvanman]

2xEd on up 92 semi-fast to Waterloo vice REP..

[keefer]

for a 60s box on wheels, the 73s look good in a nice new livery!

notice the 73s are actually in different finishes - front one, all yellow end, small arrows and 2nd one half yellow end and large arrows

[kintbury jon]

The front ones in Intercity 'Mainline' livery and the back one is in 'old' Intercity livery. I'm going to take a punt on the front one as 73138 'Post Haste'. I seem to think it was only one of two 73/1's that acquired this livery, the other being 73130 'City of Portsmouth' (which I think had an extra plate on the side).

 

Have to say, I love the photo's of this era with such a variety of formations. Thanks to everyone that has contributed.

[Dagworth]

Good old Southern innovation. Where else in recent times could you find rostered mixed-mode traction with diesel and electric on the same train*, both powering and both controlled by the one driver which ever unit (or loco) was leading?

 

Surrogate DVT HST power cars and class 89 or 91s?

 

Andi

[Gwiwer]

Surrogate DVT HST power cars and class 89 or 91s?

 

Andi

 

Only the electric was powering; the surrogate was only on tickover for hotel power if I recall rightly. Otherwise too much power : weight.

[45156]

The Southern most certainly continued to innovate which was probably Bulleid's legacy.

 

The unusual formations of EMU/TC/Loco were designated EML in the working timetables, and they did certainly prove the versatility of the stock - one of these that I remember was out of Bournemouth (ISTR it was a Saturday extra) and was formed 4-VEP/4-TC/33/1 driven from the VEP end which was the London end of the train - If I remember, it worked to somewhere like Basingstoke where it connected with a London bound service off the Exeter. Those in the know travelled in the TC which had superior seating arrangements even if the ride was a little rougher. In that respect, I remember bucketing down Micheldever bank heading for Southampton with one of the wilder drivers up front, and 4REP/4TC formation, with the TC just about staying on the track - they were lively at speed when being propelled, that's for sure!

 

I was always very impressed with the slickness of the traction changes at Bournemouth, where the TC was driven right up to the 33/1 and coupled using the buckeye before the REP was detached - brakes through, REP off at the back and brakes disconnected, ding ding and away. ISTR that it took about two minutes to do. One Saturday I was travelling, the service was running late, and with two shunters standing in the right places, and the road already set, they managed it in a minute or so - I was planning to get down to watch the operation, and was warned by the shunter to "get back in now as you'll be away immediately".

[eastwestdivide]

Only the electric was powering; the surrogate was only on tickover for hotel power if I recall rightly. Otherwise too much power : weight.

Think that's how they started, but didn't the continuous running of the big diesel on tickover cause some problems, so they changed it to allow both powering?

Source: badly-remembered articles by Roger Ford in Modern Railways in the last few years in relation to the IEP project (i.e I could be wrong).

Ford was also citing the REP-TC-33/1 flexibility as a better solution to partial electrification than the "hybrid" under-powered electro-diesel variant of the IEP project.

[Ian J.]

I was always very impressed with the slickness of the traction changes at Bournemouth, where the TC was driven right up to the 33/1 and coupled using the buckeye before the REP was detached - brakes through, REP off at the back and brakes disconnected, ding ding and away. ISTR that it took about two minutes to do. One Saturday I was travelling, the service was running late, and with two shunters standing in the right places, and the road already set, they managed it in a minute or so - I was planning to get down to watch the operation, and was warned by the shunter to "get back in now as you'll be away immediately".

Being a bit pedantic here but, I used to travel Poole-Bournemouth and back quite a bit in the 80s and I seem to remember that the process for the down trains was that the REP+TC(s) came to a stop in Bournemouth platform 3 from London, with the 33/1 waiting either in the sidings or on platform 4. It would then move in and couple up to the TC, rather than the London train coupling up to it. I can't remember though if the REP was uncoupled before or after the 33/1 was coupled up?

 

In the other direction, the REP used to sit in platform 2 waiting for the 33/1+TC(s). That portion would pull in and stop just short of the REP and once the passengers had settled down from getting off/on (even though they'd been told to wait!) it would be shunted up to the REP and coupled. Then the 33/1 would be uncoupled and head off to the stub siding that used to be for the shed, while the REP+TC(s) would head off for London when ready.

[Glorious NSE]

Somebody mentioned railtours earlier, as the requirement for TCs wound down after the Bournemouth electrification NSE refurbished a pair of TC sets, restored them to a nice approximation of their original rail blue paint and used them as dedicated railtour sets - the following pics were taken in July 1993 on HRT's "London Orbital" railtour at Nuneaton and Fenchurch St.

 

With thanks to http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/ for jogging the fading memory the route was Blackfriars, Nunhead, Charlton, Strood, Paddock Wood, Redhill, Guildford, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Coventry, Nuneaton.

 

Nuneaton, Leicester, Peterborough, Ipswich, Stratford, Gas factory Jcn, Fenchurch St.

 

Plenty of opportunity for a TC set to spread it's wings.

 

[DY444]

Think that's how they started, but didn't the continuous running of the big diesel on tickover cause some problems, so they changed it to allow both powering?

Source: badly-remembered articles by Roger Ford in Modern Railways in the last few years in relation to the IEP project (i.e I could be wrong).

Ford was also citing the REP-TC-33/1 flexibility as a better solution to partial electrification than the "hybrid" under-powered electro-diesel variant of the IEP project.

 

Spot on. The practice of hauling the HST PC around on tickover caused damage to its traction motors and was stopped pretty quickly. As you say the arrangement was changed such that the HST PC provided traction power too.

[lapford34102]

Being a bit pedantic here ............

 

Hi,

You're right, well certainly for the time I remember. There was an unofficial layup point on 4 that meant the Crompton didn't have too far to run back but gave a bit of leeway if the REP/TC came in a bit hot.

The lead TC usually had the buckeye down so raising that was the first job of the shunter - wasn't there a lady shunter at Bomo for a time? - Crompton waved back on, ETH jumper then up for the 27 way and brake pipes. Brake test, check the Loudaphone and ready to go.

 

Stu

[Gwiwer]

Standard operating instructions (not just at Bournemouth, not just on that route but SR-wide) was that a train arriving to be split must come to a stand, passengers be allowed to detrain and board and the rear portion be then split and shunt back from the front. For attachments the rear portion must enter the partially-occupied platform under approach-controlled or calling-on signals and able to stop short of the stationary portion. Once again after passenger duties were completed the rear was shunted onto the front. In the case of Bournemouth each train both detached and attached a portion. The Rep should have been split from the rear of a down train before the 33 was allowed to run onto and couple to the front. The 33 should have propelled the TC onto the Rep after station duties were complete on the up before itself being detached and run back.

 

That is not to say this always happened. But the sometimes-seen method of running the rear portion straight onto the front and coupling before stopping, or of the leading portion being driven away from the rear after a a split were both strictly forbidden. I have seen both happen many times at locations as far apart as Bournemouth and Faversham.

 

It would be anticipated that passengers on an arriving rear portion might be ready to alight and (with slam-door stock) potentially have the doors opened as the train draws to a stop. If it then makes heavy contact with the leading unit there is a risk of throwing passengers to the floor or out of the train. A leading portion drawing ahead from a split may cause a SPAD. Authorised operating methods are always safety-first.

 

With SR / BR units fitted with buckeye couplers and 27-way control a split or join could indeed be very slick and often took well under a minute including the opening or locking of gangway doors. Would that this could happen now. Where a Littlehampton / Eastbourne - Victoria train used to be allowed just 2 minutes to attach and three to divide at Haywards Heath (and either move could be done in a single minute when required) the requirements of 377 stock dictate that around six minutes is now required. And this on a line stretched to the limit for capacity already!

[yellowvanman]

If my notes at the time were right this pic shows 4VEP 3013 +4TC+ 73109 on the rear of 2B2# 14:25 stopper from Southampton..

[Dagworth]

Only the electric was powering; the surrogate was only on tickover for hotel power if I recall rightly. Otherwise too much power : weight.

according to the 125 group website here both were powered.

Operation of the Class 91/'surrogate DVT' formation on Kings Cross to Leeds service commenced in March 1988 and after a few weeks of operation it was found that the power cars were suffering from spending all their time idling on just 1000rpm, and their traction power was reinstated creating 8000+hp formations capable of quite brisk performances! As the deliveries and commissioning of Mk 4 sets took place the later in 1988 the DVT modified power cars were released back into normal duties.

Similar info from traintesting.com here

 

Initially the DVT's power unit was only used to supply ETS for the Mk3 coaches, as they differed from the Mk4's, and hence the engines were only running at approx 1000 rpm, just above idling. However, prolonged use of the power cars in this way lead to an excessive build up of un-burnt fuel in the silencers and this eventually lead to fires. One occurred at Hornsey, just outside Ferme Park, and this brought the OHLE down too. After a repeat performance it was decided that the PC engines should be powered up as normal and this then meant the test trains had a combined available power of over 7000 HP. A modification to the TDM control arrangements allowed the engine to be controlled from the class 91 and an increase in speed up to the maximum of 125 mile/h was accomplished with ease!

 

 

Andi

[Bomag]

I used to commute at the weekends Leeds to Peterborough or KX at the time and the acceleration of cl91+HST was better than anything before, or since. The SB departure from Grantham was particularly good compared. The only problem was that the ride SB in the TGS was a bit rough up to about 20mph. Regularly KX to Peterborough was 40 min start pass and 42 start stop. The record for KX to Grantham was just over 56 min start stop, however this was before TPWS and the over speed protector was allegedly desensitised on the Cl 91 + HST to stop them tripping out.

[yellowvanman]

Back to TCs..some new pics and some seen before...first one 37 with TCs on tour.. next 2x73s leaving Brock with a 5TCB + 4TC Waterloo service. ..more to come.