TomScrut Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I think it depends on what there is that needs to be turned into some money instead of costing money sitting in their rented warehouse space. Like there is probably a fair bit of stuff left where a 20% reduction would still mean it selling for slightly more than the RRP when it first arrived with them. Those would probably be the first things to be reduced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfsup Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 20 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Railroad does present a problem, though, should Hornby want to do something similar in the UK market. They have enough trouble organising two ranges without introducing a third "model" tier! One solution might be to Move the kiddie-level starter items into a properly defined Junior range (half-done already from what I can see). Use the Limby diesels, most of the ex-Airfix items, Railroad Plus items and the survivors of Design Clever as the basis of a properly defined budget range. NOT to be called Railroad, I'd suggest Tri-ang (or perhaps Lima) unless Hornby has other plans for those names. Consign the ancient dogs that aren't good enough for (2) or easy enough to handle for (1) to a properly defined retirement. John I was thinking about this the other day actually, and I would agree that resurrecting the Lima brand for what is / was Railroad would be a good idea, Particularly given that quite a few of what makes up the current Railroad originated in Lima too. I also don't think Hornby has helped itself by having locos in Railroad, Railroad Plus and it's main range either! On the last point, one of their adverts on Facebook made me laugh last night. Not only did it include the tagline of "Ultra Detailed and High Quality Models" but also "Main Range Models" - and showed the SAA wagon (albeit dressed up in Christmas guise) dating from at least 1979. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldomtom2 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 26 minutes ago, surfsup said: I was thinking about this the other day actually, and I would agree that resurrecting the Lima brand for what is / was Railroad would be a good idea, Particularly given that quite a few of what makes up the current Railroad originated in Lima too. I also don't think Hornby has helped itself by having locos in Railroad, Railroad Plus and it's main range either! Lima is still used for Hornby's Italian models. I do agree that the Railroad name has to go though - it in no way conveys that it is a budget range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said: Railroad does present a problem, though, should Hornby want to do something similar in the UK market. They have enough trouble organising two ranges without introducing a third "model" tier! One solution might be to Move the kiddie-level starter items into a properly defined Junior range (half-done already from what I can see). Use the Limby diesels, most of the ex-Airfix items, Railroad Plus items and the survivors of Design Clever as the basis of a properly defined budget range. NOT to be called Railroad, I'd suggest Tri-ang (or perhaps Lima) unless Hornby has other plans for those names. Consign the ancient dogs that aren't good enough for (2) or easy enough to handle for (1) to a properly defined retirement. John Or just lump 2 & 3 off in one place.. ebay. 1 hour ago, TomScrut said: Like there is probably a fair bit of stuff left where a 20% reduction would still mean it selling for slightly more than the RRP when it first arrived with them. Those would probably be the first things to be reduced. technically they have already done that… you get 10% off as a club member, you get another 10% rebate post purchase towards a future order, which, qualifies for 10% off for being a club member, and a further 10% rebate towards a future order… and so on. So after your first purchase, with momentum your back at Summer 2021’s price, and of course locked in as a buyer, at a retailers loss, whom are restricted on discounts. The cynic in me suggests that is what will lead to a further price increase in the next few weeks, as it cancels out that “bargain” whilst maintaining pretence of it. Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Just now, adb968008 said: you get 10% off as a club member, you get another 10% rebate post purchase towards a future order, which, qualifies for 10% off for being a club member, and a further 10% rebate towards a future order… and so on. Can the discounts stack? I wasn't aware of the rebate just the club member discount. Although you do need to spend over £300 for the club discount to break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TomScrut said: Can the discounts stack? I wasn't aware of the rebate just the club member discount. Although you do need to spend over £300 for the club discount to break even. Yes I bought the MP power cars, got 10% off at purchase and 3400 odd points credit. (£34) future credit. (I did earn points on my club membership renewal too). Although I dont have many pre-orders, I was going to cancel and re-order them to ensure they qualified for the new points credit, but they have indicated that pre-orders before that date will now qualify for points. it does put the website ahead of retailers when it comes to price. i should add, Hornby have never raised a price once a pre-order was made, so if theres something you want, I’d give it consideration ahead of any price rise that may / may not happen…again its something retailers dont always offer Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Yes I bought the MP power cars, got 10% off at purchase and 3600 odd points credit. I didn't realise you got that many points TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TomScrut said: I didn't realise you got that many points TBH. I just looked it up,.. heres the sale price.. 10% discount applied. 3434 points earned, worth £34.34 credit, applied 14 days later to spend at will. its not a bad deal. as I mentioned earlier, they have never raised a pre-order price, and you can cancel anytime, so its worth putting a pre-order in, to lock in a 2022 price. If you change your mind, you can always cancel. it does puts the website ahead of retailer discounts, and your infront of the queue (often before retailers) when it comes to delivery. Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: just looked it up So did I. It is a good rate you get then! 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: as I mentioned earlier, they have never raised a pre-order price, and you can cancel anytime, so its worth putting a pre-order in, to lock in a 2022 price. If the price rise doesn't happen, you can always cancel. Yeah, although I am careful with what I pre order from them. 1. Ordering a rake of coaches can end up with you paying postage on all of them as far as I am aware. 2. You don't always get notice that stuff is inbound so cancelling isn't something to rely on if you're on the fence about the item and are just stalling the decision and the existing price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TomScrut said: So did I. It is a good rate you get then! Yeah, although I am careful with what I pre order from them. 1. Ordering a rake of coaches can end up with you paying postage on all of them as far as I am aware. 2. You don't always get notice that stuff is inbound so cancelling isn't something to rely on if you're on the fence about the item and are just stalling the decision and the existing price. With the MP coaches, find a friend who wants the same coach, order 2… then its above £50 and post free. (i should work in sales shouldnt i ?) ;-) But if they ship all 9 in one box, youve good grounds to go back and get a postal refund, after all 9 lots of postage is what you paid for… and ofcourse if theyve lumped it together in one transaction, then your above £50 and it should be post free. Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) If they wanted to differentiate between top of the range and railroad they could take a leaf out of the railways book. I was going to suggest Hornby standard class and Hornby first class, although Hornby super saver advance range and Hornby buy on day of travel range might be more fitting Edited January 4, 2023 by rovex Posted before finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I wonder if theyve already done a comprehensive tooling suite on their TT:120 Mk1 family of coaches ie; sleepers, mail stowage vans, mail sorting vans, as yet unseen buffet/kitchen cars, Corridor Firsts, motorails flats, GUVs, Brake second opens etc....if they have then id expect some more unless these feature in totally separate announcements for TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rovex said: If they wanted to differentiate between top of the range and railroad they could take a leaf out of the railways book. I was going to suggest Hornby standard class and Hornby first class, although Hornby super saver advance ticket and Hornby buy on day of travel range Cleverly avoided saying 3rd class there… 😀 Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJennings Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, TomScrut said: 1. Ordering a rake of coaches can end up with you paying postage on all of them as far as I am aware. It does yes as even if pre-ordered in one go Hornby treats each item as a separate order with P&P charged appropriately … it’s like Christmas come early when the Hornby delivery arrives at times. It is hit and miss as have had 8x coaches in 8x boxes and others 8x coaches in one box (bearing on P&P was charged per item in the later so equated to £30+ for one box effectively …). Come to think it’s one area I hope Hornby do announce next week is a new ordering system that actually works and can merge orders when stock arrives same time to minimise postage costs etc … 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RJennings said: It does yes as even if pre-ordered in one go Hornby treats each item as a separate order with P&P charged appropriately … it’s like Christmas come early when the Hornby delivery arrives at times. It is hit and miss as have had 8x coaches in 8x boxes and others 8x coaches in one box (bearing on P&P was charged per item in the later so equated to £30+ for one box effectively …). thats where a phone call is worthwhile, as is the 14 day return policy. Reorder as a group, recover your postage costs. ive found common sense prevails over a disfunctional website designed by another member of the Phoenix empire. They refunded me the postage when I called. Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutyDruid Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, adb968008 said: it does puts the website ahead of retailer discounts, and your infront of the queue (often before retailers) when it comes to delivery. Declaration of interest: Until the Zombie Apocalypse struck I regularly did stints behind the counter in my local model shop and feel I was pretty much up to speed on the rights, wrongs and rules viz a vie discounting simply because of the regular stream of people coming in and asking me to knock a bit off their bill when the boss wasn't looking. The practical upshot is that both Bachmann and Hornby have fairly stringent rules about what a retailer can do by ways of discount. What you had described earlier in that post: 3 hours ago, adb968008 said: I just looked it up,.. heres the sale price.. 10% discount applied. 3434 points earned, worth £34.34 credit, applied 14 days later to spend at will. (Sale price of £381.49 discounted by 10% to £343.34, plus a points "cash back" worth £34.34) equates to nigh on a 20% discount and actually blows Hornby's own rules about discounting that they impose on their retailers out of the water. More, I've heard on the grapevine that they have used this "over discounting" rule to bump offending traders out of Tier One which - if you understand how their tier system works - effectively hobbles that retailer from serving his customer base effectively. No, I'm drawn back to the conversation of a couple of days ago, they are actively trying to **** off their retailers and are testing the water with a view to moving themselves exclusively online at some point in the not too distant future. Elliott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, DutyDruid said: I'm drawn back to the conversation of a couple of days ago, they are actively trying to **** off their retailers and are testing the water with a view to moving themselves exclusively online at some point in the not too distant future. Elliott i doubt “evergreen” sales will be worthwhile. No ones going to Hornby.com for a bag of trackpins. But I suspect this bread and butter stuff makes a higher margin than a loco or a coach. Whilst it might be you need to sell 100 bags of trackpins to equal a loco sale, they are constant revenue for Hornby to the retail trade, that wont easily transpose to their own website customers, nor does it go out of date, need writing down or incurr returns / damages in the same manner etc. Whilst their annual reports espouse growing the website, their half yearly report only showed £5.7mn in 2020/21 and whilst its growing 50% year on year in 2022.. that would still only take them to c£9mn in 2022 at the current trajectory… against £53mn revenue. So the website is growing, but 80% of their revenue isn't via the website. https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/r79vegx I do suspect they may quantum leap in sales, with offers like the above, but dont forget to give that 20% discount means the website margin is taking a hit, as well as their channel sales reducing, and the logistics of greater volume of small parcels increasing. The risk is trade sales falls harder and faster than website sales increase… leaving warehouse stocks growing. Whilst another risk is logistics costs rise disproportionately and eat that sexy extra margin the website is promising. They could of course already forsee this, run down several lines / volumes that wont transpose from Trade to Website, whilst increasing lines that give higher margin via website and hence reap the rewards… I hope ? Roll on june and the numbers and we will see. Whilst I do support model shops, there are some retailers who dont show much loyalty, so I’m happy to shift some business to where its cheapest. If Hornby is moving off the high street, I think its odd, but its there decision, i’ll roll with it… ive had a love / hate with the website for 8 years. That said, in the big picture Hornbys shrunk to a small fraction of my spend. I wonder if retailers are thinking the same too ? Edited January 4, 2023 by adb968008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, adb968008 said: No ones going to Hornby.com for a bag of trackpins. Especially not at the price they would charge me for postage to nz lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) Ummmmm.... Hornby do trackpins... R207 packet of trackpins @ £4.40 Edited January 5, 2023 by Hroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, adb968008 said: i doubt “evergreen” sales will be worthwhile. No ones going to Hornby.com for a bag of trackpins. You're quite right, but that's where companies like Peco come into play. Modern business dictates to divest stock if there's little profit, or 'loss leaders'. Dapol took a hammering when they released the GW railcar, both financially, and by reputation. To overcome this, important things such as quality & warranty are put back in the hands of the manufacturer. It's cheaper to create an internal post to instil 100% quality control, than to have warranty returns, which either the retailer or manufacturer are legally bound to accept. Less money lost, and better reputation. Damaged stock? No problem, insurance claim on the carriers.... It's not a Hornby thing, or trait, it's todays modern business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 11 hours ago, rovex said: If they wanted to differentiate between top of the range and railroad they could take a leaf out of the railways book. I was going to suggest Hornby standard class and Hornby first class, although Hornby super saver advance range and Hornby buy on day of travel range might be more fitting All the new steam locos have "First Class Open Return" prices! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2023 7 hours ago, Hroth said: Ummmmm.... Hornby do trackpins... R207 packet of trackpins @ £4.40 There are (allegedly) people who are so uninformed about the alternatives to Hornby that they might think (?) that Hornby track would require Hornby track pins. 😉 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted January 5, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2023 Hornby Magazine (the digital version at least) seems to have come out prematurely, and spilled all the beans. 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerzilla Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, Downer said: Hornby Magazine (the digital version at least) seems to have come out prematurely, and spilled all the beans. Not on Readly yet - I just checked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, rogerzilla said: Not on Readly yet - I just checked. Pocket mags have it available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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