Prototype locations with good scenic breaks

[009 micro modeller]

If we’re allowed overseas locations then this is worth a look. Again though the track layout is not the most exciting.

[Ponthir28]

Caerleon railway station on the Newport to Hereford line Road bridge each end of station.

[Stoke West]

On 21/08/2023 at 09:49, melmerby said:

Birmingham Central Goods station

Double track line from tunnel straight into yard:

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrcgy912.htm

 

Even a couple of glimpses of the West Suburban line as it flits between tunnels.

 

The trackwork would be a good excuse to learn Templot!

 

If anyone asked can i put a signal in that location on my layout they would shot down in flames 

[dpgibbons]

21 hours ago, Stoke West said:

If anyone asked can i put a signal in that location on my layout they would shot down in flames 

 

For sure you would not find such a plethora of signals in a typical goods yard. But this is a terminus of a double track goods branch, with multiple sidings exiting directly onto the running lines. Plus it's a very busy yard, and the tunnel restricts visibility. So the signalling arrangements make perfect sense.

[Stoke West]

3 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

For sure you would not find such a plethora of signals in a typical goods yard. But this is a terminus of a double track goods branch, with multiple sidings exiting directly onto the running lines. Plus it's a very busy yard, and the tunnel restricts visibility. So the signalling arrangements make perfect sense.

The signals controlling the exit from groups of sidings are logical its the one in the foreground which is after connections in the  tunnel , i cant see any purpose it serves 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Stoke West said:

... the one in the foreground which is after connections in the  tunnel , i cant see any purpose it serves 

So any train stopped at it would be fouling umpteen turnouts ! - was there an indication of selected route at the other end of the tunnel p'raps ?

[dpgibbons]

The signal box diagram (attached) shows that the home signal #5 in the foreground controls access to the arrival line, with signal 22 the starter for the departure line. Presumably shunt signals 12, 15 and 21 were deemed sufficient to control all the adjacent sidings. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by dpgibbons

[Stoke West]

7 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

The signal box diagram (attached) shows that the home signal #5 in the foreground controls access to the arrival line, with signal 22 the starter for the departure line. Presumably shunt signals 12, 15 and 21 were deemed sufficient to control all the adjacent sidings. 

No problem with shunt signals but there's no signal protecting connections 6 and 7 and no reference to any slotting or release on Church Road Junction signals , unless drivers were meant to stay back in tunnel until signal was pulled off !

[Jeremy Cumberland]

The diagram is incomplete, and there has to be more to the left. We can infer a distant 2 and home 3, with 4 being used for all other routes. Alternatively, perhaps it is a fixed distant and 2, 3 and 4 are for different routes.

 

22 is also a shunting signal, like 12, 15 and 21, but there appears not to be any signals beyond it, since 23 and 24 are spare, unless there is a 25.

 

I still cannot see why 5 should be a main signal.

[Wickham Green too]

Yeah, there's got to be something controlling access to everything other than the arrival line !

[Michael Hodgson]

 

2 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

The diagram is incomplete, and there has to be more to the left. We can infer a distant 2 and home 3, with 4 being used for all other routes. Alternatively, perhaps it is a fixed distant and 2, 3 and 4 are for different routes.

 

22 is also a shunting signal, like 12, 15 and 21, but there appears not to be any signals beyond it, since 23 and 24 are spare, unless there is a 25.

 

I still cannot see why 5 should be a main signal.

As all arriving trains come into the arrival road then get broken up and shunted elsewhere or propelled into the shed by a shunter, it would be perfectly normal for No 5 to be a main running signal.  If it's off it confirms to the driver that he can proceed to the stops, or if there are vehicles standing there, he will be checked at it.  You don't want a train arriving anywhere else (any of the other lines would be shunt movements); and you don't arrive directly into a shed road as you don't want a steam engine sitting in there as it's a fire risk.  In any case the signal needs to be clearly visible to trains emerging from the Goods Tunnel, so a ground signal would probably present sighting problems.

 

It is perhaps worth noting that the layout in the 1947 diagram is not quite the same as in the 1966 photo; unsuprisingly there have been several minor changes, no doubt reflecting changes in traffic.  And possibly some major changes, as we can't see everything in the tunnel mouth area.

 

The notes say that 6, 7 & 22 are locked normal when the Annetts key for a ground frame is out of the frame.  I don't know where this Cemetary Siding GF is, it's not shown on the diagram, so it (and its siding) is presumably also off to the left, probably at the other end of the tunnel.  There could be signals associated with 6/7 worked by this GF -  they would not necessarily be shown on the main box diagram although it would be usual to include them unshaded and without numbers and the GF would normally be shown too.  The Annetts Key prresumably fits into a release lever (one of 2, 3 and 4?) to work this interlocking.

 

Assuming Andy Overton has drawn the diagram correctly (it's an SRS diagram copied from an official railway one), access to the roads in the top half of the diagram is only possible using the departure line with 7 points reversed, as the arrival line has a diamond crossing not a slip.  So if you want  to move any of those vans on the left hand side of the photo, you're going to need to have somebody working that ground frame.  All in all, quite a bit of work here for shunters.

 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

As all arriving trains come into the arrival road then get broken up and shunted elsewhere or propelled into the shed by a shunter, it would be perfectly normal for No 5 to be a main running signal.  If it's off it confirms to the driver that he can proceed to the stops, or if there are vehicles standing there, he will be checked at it.  You don't want a train arriving anywhere else (any of the other lines would be shunt movements); ... 

1) All arrivals SHOULD come into the arrivals road but there seems nothing to ensure that that's the case - nor to control shunts into either group of sidings by a loco driver 'blind' in the tunnel.

2) If No.5 is a NORMAL running signal it should not be possible to pass it at clear and find the next signal - the stop block - at Danger.

3 ) Wouldn't the possibility of vehicles already being present on the arrivals road warrant a Calling-On signal ?

[Michael Hodgson]

1.  The interlocking will prevent the signal from being cleared if the points are set for any other route.  Shunts will be done under control of a shunter using hand signals.

 

2.  It is no different from the signal you find at a typical single line terminus with a run-round loop.

 

3.  A calling on signal is not required.  If present it would be used, but if not the driver is expected to understand from having been brought to or nearly to a stand and the signal then cleared that he may only proceed as far as the line is clear.  As this is not a passenger station the philosophy will be K.I.S.S. and only provide signals if you have to.  Providing a call on increases the cost and complicates the locking, and as it's goods only, why bother.

[dpgibbons]

The OS map shows that the crossover was at the other end of the tunnel with signal posts adjacent on both up and down lines (see map). Cemetary siding comes off the departure line a half a mile or so further on.

 

Incidentally the other end of the tunnel would also qualify for this thread, with (from L to R) the MR's Birmingham West suburban line, the goods lines into Central Goods, Cemetary siding and the Worcestershire and Birmingham canal running alongside each other at different levels over a length of only 275m between tunnels.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by dpgibbons

[Michael Crofts]

As a bit of light relief from signalling, and knowing that canals are a popular  scenic feature, I thought this might be OK for the topic. I think it's Gas Street basin in Worcester.

 

[figworthy]

On 29/08/2023 at 17:17, Michael Crofts said:

As a bit of light relief from signalling, and knowing that canals are a popular  scenic feature, I thought this might be OK for the topic. I think it's Gas Street basin in Worcester.

 

 

It is Gas Street Basin (most of which is behind and to the right of the camera) but it is in central Birmingham.  The tunnel in the background is under Broad Street.

 

Adrian

[phil_sutters]

On 20/08/2023 at 08:52, johnofwessex said:

 

It is suggested that the Barry Railway steamer Barry was intended for a year round Barry to Burnham on Sea service BUT I am not aware that Barry Railway ships ever called at the pier at Burnham on Sea, that was the province of S&DJR ships.

 

I have seen a photo of P&A Campbells Waverley alongside Burnham on Sea & another of one of the bigger Barry Railway steamers doing what looks like unloading passengers into small boats at Burnham.

 

I suspect that by the time PS Barry was built the idea of a Barry to Burnham on Sea service was obviously bonkers, especially with the opening of the Severn Tunnel 

The S&DJR stopped all use of Burnham's jetty in 1888, having ceased regular ferry services to Cardiff in 1886. Its own ship Sherbro, bought in 1884, only saw regular ferry journeys from May to October that year. Previous ferries operated by the company had all been chartered. P&A Campbell's Waverley is not the Waverley shortly to be doing the rounds of the South Coast ports on either side of the Solent. This is a limited edition print by Audrey French of Waverley at Burnham jetty in 1908

[Hal Nail]

On 18/08/2023 at 22:04, 009 micro modeller said:

On this theme, what are some of the smallest bits of prototype railway between two viable scenic breaks?

 

Canute Road Southampton docks? Trains appear between buildings on either side of the road and both sides are gated.

Could actually be quite a good visual cameo in 7mm at eye level (especially if you could do the blokes waving flags) but utterly inefficient use of space!

 

 

 

[Michael Crofts]

From the excellent thread 'When the real thing looks like a model'

 

[Wickham Green too]

The station - t'other side of the bridge - had good scenic breaks both ends.

[30851]

According to the John Swift version of Birmingham Central diagram  - 2 was a home signal on the other side of the tunnel. While 3 was a starter also on the other side of the tunnel. However the rest of the Swift diagram doesn't really match the above diagram so this may not be one of his best!

 

Rob

 

[johnofwessex]

16 hours ago, Michael Crofts said:

From the excellent thread 'When the real thing looks like a model'

 

 

I saw this view on the front of a magazine recently - there was a 40 on a train from memory and the curve looked very 'first radius'

[melmerby]

On 30/08/2023 at 22:42, figworthy said:

 

It is Gas Street Basin (most of which is behind and to the right of the camera) but it is in central Birmingham.  The tunnel in the background is under Broad Street.

 

Adrian

Worcester Bar

Where the Worcester & Birmingham Canal, was separated from The Birmingham Canal Navigations at Gas Street Basin

Edited September 5, 2023 by melmerby

[melmerby]

This is Worcester Bar, the picture was taken from the footbridge to the left.

 

It's where when the two canals were independent goods where manually shipped across the Bar from Barge to Barge, to stop water from one canal being lost to the other.

Edited September 5, 2023 by melmerby

[Wickham Green too]

Even further off topic - looks like THIS photo was composed from two or more images as some of the vessels above the Bar have moved !