Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[87004]

11 minutes ago, Kaput said:

Do have to laugh at the app being weeks away for Android still when its the easier platform to get an app on (less checks than Apple) and arguably the bigger market.

But an Android app has to run on lots of different phones so is much more complicated to code.

[Vecchio]

44 minutes ago, Kaput said:

It reads very much like documentation made by the actual engineers or developers that made the decoders/software and has a number of areas that just don't read as user friendly to me.

Have you ever looked into a Zimo decoder manual? Well it has only 85 pages - but there is less bla bla at the beginning. Needs quite a bit of concentration, but it is necessary. 

 

To be honest I am quite impressed that the Hornby one is well detailed. 

 

[Grovenor]

Agreed, as decoder manuals go its one of the best I've seen. And when you get to page 127 it does tell you that speakers should be 8 Ohm.🙂

[frobisher]

2 hours ago, 87004 said:

But an Android app has to run on lots of different phones so is much more complicated to code.

 

No more than coping with the myriad of iPhones Apple have produced.  A compliant bit of code will just work (maybe not optimally on a particular phone's feature set, but this isn't console development where the platform holder has their particular hardware features as a requirement).  Differing versions of the operating system are a bigger problem than who makes the phone and what model it is.  Google is considerably more lax on certain issues than Apple and most definitely Amazon.

 

If you're coding from scratch and not using a framework, then yes, but then you also need to be taken out back and shot for crimes against production coding (Your iPhone version is also produced on the same framework otherwise out back for that as well...).

[Vecchio]

23 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

First concern after a quick scan - no function mapping on the non-sound decoders

 

23 hours ago, Kaput said:

No mapping on the sound decoders either.

 

I am sorry, but if you have a proper controller  the function mapping is no longer necessary.  (I use Z21 on Donnersbachkogel, z21 on Frimingham)

At the moment you have a graphic user surface like a smart phone or tablet the position of the function keys doesn't matter. It only matters on pure numeric controllers like NCE powercab, Lenz LH100, Roco Lokmouse or similar. 

 

[Mike Buckner]

The manual looks good to me. And has good sensible explanations generally applicable to DCC operation, never mind the Bluetooth aspect. Other DCC manufacturers could learn a few lessons from it.

[JohnR]

I have to say I was impressed by the manual. A big improvement over the Hornby leaflet for TTS. It seems it was actually written by people who a) knew what they were talking about and b) used the hardware themselves.

[Bob83a]

As with most new things there are issues with the documentation. E.g. CV1 is in the range 1-127 in several places and then 1-128 in others. But of course with the manuals online Hornby can easily put that right.

 

There are other places in the documentation where information is not available and this is also easily fixed.

 

There is quite a cost of putting documents in the box, both in term of printing cost and the extra shipping costs due to added weight. That is the reason that most suppliers are putting all the documentation online except for the equivalent of a quick start guide.

 

Please can members report issues with the documentation or requests for clarification to Hornby.. 

[RedgateModels]

Not had chance to test my 8 pin sound decoder yet, but initial impressions of build quality are good (apart from the odd white pcb). The 8 pin plug seems solid and well soldered, gold on the pins is good. Wires are quality, very flexible 

 

A Diamond Jubilee Britannia has been selected to fit it to, maybe get chance this weekend, maybe not. Lots of family stuff to sort out ……

Edited March 17, 2023 by RedgateModels

[Merlin242]

I think the white PCB is a good idea. It instantly tells you the source of the decoder . In a few years time opening a second hand loco that saves a lot of messing about. i suspect it was really part of the brand black & white look but a good idea. 

I also think the manual is helpful and a good compromise of plain english and techspeak.

 

[RAF96]

6 hours ago, Bob83a said:

As with most new things there are issues with the documentation. E.g. CV1 is in the range 1-127 in several places and then 1-128 in others. But of course with the manuals online Hornby can easily put that right.

 

There are other places in the documentation where information is not available and this is also easily fixed.

 

There is quite a cost of putting documents in the box, both in term of printing cost and the extra shipping costs due to added weight. That is the reason that most suppliers are putting all the documentation online except for the equivalent of a quick start guide.

 

Please can members report issues with the documentation or requests for clarification to Hornby.. 

 

Some user comments already taken care of and as the document is a live update subsequent downloads will incorporate the user amendments.

[RAF96]

4 hours ago, Merlin242 said:

I think the white PCB is a good idea. It instantly tells you the source of the decoder . In a few years time opening a second hand loco that saves a lot of messing about. i suspect it was really part of the brand black & white look but a good idea. 

I also think the manual is helpful and a good compromise of plain english and techspeak.

 

The decoder PCB also tells of Hornby and the SKU (R-number) and pin designation.

[Johan DC]

First one ordered at Hattons. A Next18 sound for my A5. Which of the current steam sounds would be the closest match? 

I wonder if Hornby will open the market for third party soundfiles. If this is even possible. 

[E100]

15 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

First one ordered at Hattons. A Next18 sound for my A5. Which of the current steam sounds would be the closest match? 

I wonder if Hornby will open the market for third party soundfiles. If this is even possible. 

 

I think it comes down to whether they feel they want to add the support (and potential complication) to make potentially a lot more money off all the models we may have or they prefer their in-house approach of being the one stop shop and keeping things simple. I sincerely hope they do but based on the way in which TTS was locked down and the attitude to date (HM7000 excepted) with DCC in general would suggest probably otherwise unless their is a change of heart. They seem to be placing an emphasis on the decoder being tuned to the loco motor characteristics and to me this suggests they are wanting to lock things down somewhat. That being said I haven't yet had a chance to read through the comprehensive manual but that is night and day with the TTS info.

[woodenhead]

Just because Hornby have got here first with bluetooth control doesn't mean it will be the only one.

 

Unless it is a dead end, and I can't imagine that, then other chip manufacturers will be looking at similar options I would imagine.

[WIMorrison]

They are not ‘there first’ - there have been others around for a long time, perhaps Hornby is the first major company to release a version, but they are definitely not the first.

 

Given how long bluetooth control has been around I wonder if it will actually be a game changer, or just another interesting offering alongside the myriad of other control solutions that spring up periodically.

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

They are not ‘there first’ - there have been others around for a long time, perhaps Hornby is the first major company to release a version, but they are definitely not the first.

 

Given how long bluetooth control has been around I wonder if it will actually be a game changer, or just another interesting offering alongside the myriad of other control solutions that spring up periodically.

What I see with this product is actually Hornby escaping from the physical controller when it comes to their DCC offering.  Generally the DCC controllers by the model railway manufacturers are not quite as solid as the big DCC system developers, so Hornby can avoid having to build it's own controller by removing it altogether from the equation when it comes to keeping it's customers inside the Hornby ecosystem.  Having the system be completely software driven using apps and the chips requiring no physical connection to the control system gives them a lot more flexibility to do software driven upgrades without being concerned about the hardware.

 

It looks to be all part of Hornby keeping a large segment of it's customer's buying Hornby and only Hornby

[WIMorrison]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

...

 

It looks to be all part of Hornby keeping a large segment of it's customer's buying Hornby and only Hornby

completely agree that it will ‘lock’ people into Hornby. It is surprising how many people will only buy from Hornby because it will work with their locos - they seem to have a poor understanding of what it is they are purchasing or how control systems work, or mix and match. 
 

it is however, their money to spend as they wish 😉

[newbryford]

29 minutes ago, E100 said:

 

I think it comes down to whether they feel they want to add the support (and potential complication) to make potentially a lot more money off all the models we may have or they prefer their in-house approach of being the one stop shop and keeping things simple. I sincerely hope they do but based on the way in which TTS was locked down and the attitude to date (HM7000 excepted) with DCC in general would suggest probably otherwise unless their is a change of heart. They seem to be placing an emphasis on the decoder being tuned to the loco motor characteristics and to me this suggests they are wanting to lock things down somewhat. That being said I haven't yet had a chance to read through the comprehensive manual but that is night and day with the TTS info.

 

Were they locked down on TTS?

The motor control CVs were available on TTS decoders - I had to change a couple to get later releases of the TTS 37 decoder to work well with my Bachmann 37s.

IMO, they would be daft to lock them to Hornby locos - I'm sure that many others than just myself have fitted the TTS decoders to Bachmann 37 and 66  and I even have 3x Hattons 66s - with a better speaker of course..

 

[Johan DC]

34 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

completely agree that it will ‘lock’ people into Hornby. It is surprising how many people will only buy from Hornby because it will work with their locos - they seem to have a poor understanding of what it is they are purchasing or how control systems work, or mix and match. 
 

it is however, their money to spend as they wish 😉

And here I am, buying my first HM7000 for a Sonic loco. And the next two will go in a Dapol and a Heljan loco. I must be doing something wrong.... 

[blueeighties]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

completely agree that it will ‘lock’ people into Hornby. It is surprising how many people will only buy from Hornby because it will work with their locos - they seem to have a poor understanding of what it is they are purchasing or how control systems work, or mix and match. 
 

it is however, their money to spend as they wish 😉

True, but look back and see how many times Hornby have been ahead of the game in releasing new potentially market leading products only to make a bit of an ar#e of it and lose out....Zero one, super detailed diesels anyone?

[spamcan61]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Just because Hornby have got here first with bluetooth control doesn't mean it will be the only one.

 

Unless it is a dead end, and I can't imagine that, then other chip manufacturers will be looking at similar options I would imagine.

OK I'm being a tad pedantic here, but I'd say the 'blunami' decoders got there first. What Hornby have done IMHO is spent big bucks bringing to market an entire system at a price 'affordable' to the mainstream; kudos to them for that. 

 

Without wishing to thread drift too much I'd say that's something that's always been in the Triang DNA back to the early days. The TTS decoders are another example of that.

Edited March 17, 2023 by spamcan61

[Johan DC]

Isn't Blunami not IOS-only? 

[letterspider]

At this price and with the option to change sound files freely, I'm not complaining.  Good luck to Hornby making a pile of cash with this product

[RedgateModels]

Ok first test of the sound decoder fitted to a lenz decoder tester.

 

first impression is very noisy motor control out of the box. I see from the manual that there is auto tune etc which may help. Time will tell. The PWM frequency is claimed to be 20Khz, the same as a Zimo default, although zimos can be switched to 40Khz if needed.

 

Default sound scheme is disappointing. Very toy train like, no automatic switch to coasting with small speed step reduction etc. It just chuffs around whatever the controller is doing. Hopefully the real sound profiles have had more effort to produce a more realistic steam loco driving experience. If not then the sounds have not moved on from TTS and we are still very much in the budget end of Digital sound.