Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[NIK]

4 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Would a recall be that hard?  Hornby has the email address of every user.  No different than when my Samsung Note got recalled.

Hi,

 

How so?. Hattons are also selling the decoders and by phone or shop orders and users don't have to send Hornby their E-mail address to use the decoders on DCC (which they have to use on DCC at the moment if they are Android users).

 

Regards

 

Nik

[spamcan61]

8 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Would a recall be that hard?  Hornby has the email address of every user.  No different than when my Samsung Note got recalled.

IIRC the Notes were recalled because they were catching fire, a bit more serious than some users having problems with their toy train :chips'.

Edited April 8, 2023 by spamcan61

[Pteremy]

There were bound to be some teething problems with a new system and Hornby must have built in a decent margin for 'returns' when planning. As this thread demonstrates early adopters are creative people, and will winkle out new issues. But when issues are identified they need to be addressed quickly to maintain goodwill. So it is in Hornby's best interest to get a grip on the communication issues as quickly as possible.

[Kris]

I had a conversation about these chips with the staff in Antics (Gloucester) today. They were totally unaware that you could download sounds (they tried to tell me that I would need to ask for a set loco sound set - I corrected them on that one) and that you do not need a traditional DCC set up, that a 15v power source and iPad were enough. They were stunned by the last bit, questioning why people would now go and spend hundreds of pounds on a DCC controller. 

The staff I spoke to were modellers but not railway modellers. 

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

How so?. Hattons are also selling the decoders and by phone or shop orders and users don't have to send Hornby their E-mail address to use the decoders on DCC (which they have to use on DCC at the moment if they are Android users).

 

Regards

 

Nik

I'd guess very few people are using these chips and havnt used the app, even if just out of curiosity.  Plus the people most affected are those using the app

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Pmorgancym said:

 It'll be huge climb down from what was a big selling point of the chips.

 

from memory I can’t recall using a dc power controller as the voltage source as a big selling point made by Hornby. The fanfare was for Bluetooth control via an app. Even the continued use of traditional NMRA DCC control was a secondary feature.

 

Some traditional, DC users jumped on the idea of whacking their controllers up to max and giving it a go. Quite understandable as then this new technology applied to them too. 

[ChrisG62]

On 05/04/2023 at 14:47, D3489gibson said:

So, I took my two decoders to the club rooms today to have a play about. 8pin definitely doesn't fit in a Bachmann 08, regardless of removing the lead weight, so that scuppered that one. The 21pin fitted nicely into my newer release Dapol 73, speaker enclosure was the largest possible  and even had room for the stay alive powerbank too. App on a friend's phone connected to the decoder fine, and all was going well till the sound file install. Five attempts and it wouldn't load. Not sure if it was the fact that the layout it was sat on had a LOT of stock running at the time, but after two and a bit hours I gave up the ghost and took the decoder out. I'll likely give it another try at home. Anyone else had this issue at all???

 

Nathan...

 

@Nathan

 

Spec someone else has already responded likewise, but just in case:

I have the 8 pin TXS sound controller fitted ok in a Bachmann Branchline 08 (32-115A 08021).

It is a squeeze. Controller is vertical at front end, speaker with smallest enclosure is at 90° between it and the innards, adjacent to the the 8 pin socket.

Careful manipulation of the loco wiring out of the way to make space was necessary.

Obviously other models might differ.

Attached pic provides an approx idea of the positioning.

[farren]

4 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

from memory I can’t recall using a dc power controller as the voltage source as a big selling point made by Hornby. The fanfare was for Bluetooth control via an app. Even the continued use of traditional NMRA DCC control was a secondary feature.

 

Some traditional, DC users jumped on the idea of whacking their controllers up to max and giving it a go. Quite understandable as then this new technology applied to them too. 

Have I missed something, dcc is AC and DC well that’s DC. Originally I thought it was mentioned that you may be able to use the Accessory feed. But always thought that was a consent current. 
 

I freely admit I hadn’t taken much notice of Bluetooth, until last week I decided to get a decoder for one of my models and thought I’d give it a go. Managed to download the wrong app and messed things right up! But thanks to some people at Hornby, got it working, I have to admit I’m quite impressed. Working two phones at the same time isn’t easy. Here’s a quick look, told you I was impressed, the first run. Yes I know it’s the princess Coronation sound file, what can I say I was impatient. I will load the correct file when one is available, close enough for now though. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by farren

[WIMorrison]

When will people stop saying that DCC is AC?  DCC is not AC

[spamcan61]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

When will people stop saying that DCC is AC?  DCC is not AC

I beg to differ, the current flows in alternating directions during each cycle, i.e. it is a bipolar waveform, so that's the very definition of a.c.

[WIMorrison]

I disagree that it is AC, that is a term that is used for sinusoidal wave forms and DCC is most definitely not sinusoidal, nor is a regular waveform which is also required from AC.

 

The best description would be that it is an asymmetric pulse width modulated DC signal.

[Pmorgancym]

Do we know ow if the failures are linked to one specific decoder 8/next18/21 or across the board

 

 

[farren]

36 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

I disagree that it is AC, that is a term that is used for sinusoidal wave forms and DCC is most definitely not sinusoidal, nor is a regular waveform which is also required from AC.

 

The best description would be that it is an asymmetric pulse width modulated DC signal.

Well as the Electrons don’t flow in one direction, I’ll carry on calling it AC.  we will just have to disagree. 

[Pmorgancym]

So if I take away my combi and switch it to the power supply for the prodigy express, what guarentee is there that that also won't cause an issue?  

[Porfuera]

13 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Do we know ow if the failures are linked to one specific decoder 8/next18/21 or across the board

 

Or as I asked before whether it is DCC or just DC users? The guy in the recent video seemed to say that he was running his on DC Gaugemaster controllers.

 

And is it just the usual social media escalation of only hearing about the failures? There seem to be quite a few people here posting their successes - I can only remember one poster here saying theirs was dead, although some people seem to have had issues loading the sound profiles.

[Pmorgancym]

2 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

Or as I asked before whether it is DCC or just DC users? The guy in the recent video seemed to say that he was running his on DC Gaugemaster controllers.

 

And is it just the usual social media escalation of only hearing about the failures? There seem to be quite a few people here posting their successes - I can only remember one poster here saying theirs was dead, although some people seem to have had issues loading the sound profiles.

Indeed how does the 'failure rate' compare to that of chips in general?  Is it an issue with specific locos?  From the incidences I have seen the two social media 'stars' and one on the Hornby forums it seems to happen quickly within 24 hours or so of installation.

[Pteremy]

Anyone can speculate - only Hornby can gat a grip of the issue(s). I am sure that they will given the investment they have in the new system.

[newbryford]

4 hours ago, Kris said:

I had a conversation about these chips with the staff in Antics (Gloucester) today. They were totally unaware that you could download sounds (they tried to tell me that I would need to ask for a set loco sound set - I corrected them on that one) and that you do not need a traditional DCC set up, that a 15v power source and iPad were enough. They were stunned by the last bit, questioning why people would now go and spend hundreds of pounds on a DCC controller. 

The staff I spoke to were modellers but not railway modellers. 

 

Which sort of ties in with a previous comment about lack of dealers on  an online session that was organised by Hornby for them 

[Pmorgancym]

5 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Which sort of ties in with a previous comment about lack of dealers on  an online session that was organised by Hornby for them 

Trouble is I guess dealers have trust issues with Hornby these days

[Denny]

On 06/04/2023 at 12:04, lapford34102 said:

Well done!.  Any chance of a photo to show how you managed it?

 

On a different tack looking at my 8 pin one end of the chip seems to be there simply for some info on one side and a QR code on the other with no circuitry at all. Measuring the "chip" bit only it looks to be identical in size to a Loksound 5  8 pin.  Anyone elser looked at this aspect as if it's not essential then..........

Stu

Apologies! I missed this. 
 

It was a tight squeeze so I daren’t take the lid off again in case it was pure fluke! 
 

I remember mounting the chip above the flywheel and running the loom towards the front where the speaker can be glued in. You’ll need some insulating tape.
 

There’s just enough space for the smallest enclosure in the radiator section. 
 

I sorta managed a pic of the power bank in the cab though. You can hardly see it! 

[D3489gibson]

3 hours ago, ChrisG62 said:

 

@Nathan

 

Spec someone else has already responded likewise, but just in case:

I have the 8 pin TXS sound controller fitted ok in a Bachmann Branchline 08 (32-115A 08021).

It is a squeeze. Controller is vertical at front end, speaker with smallest enclosure is at 90° between it and the innards, adjacent to the the 8 pin socket.

Careful manipulation of the loco wiring out of the way to make space was necessary.

Obviously other models might differ.

Attached pic provides an approx idea of the positioning.

 

Ooh lovely! I may have to give this setup a try in the future... once the ill eeffects that the app is giving me have subsided! 

 

Nathan..

[JSpencer]

My Hornby sound fitted 08 - which was pre fitted with a Loksound (that Hornby used before the days of TTS) has never needed a power bank in all the years I've run it. It was my first DCC sound fitted loco.

[JohnR]

15 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

from memory I can’t recall using a dc power controller as the voltage source as a big selling point made by Hornby. The fanfare was for Bluetooth control via an app. Even the continued use of traditional NMRA DCC control was a secondary feature.

 

Some traditional, DC users jumped on the idea of whacking their controllers up to max and giving it a go. Quite understandable as then this new technology applied to them too. 

 

Quite. The initial announcement was that Hornby would sell you a "DC" power supply that would connect. Then some people asked "What if we used our existing DC controller turned up to max?" and the answer was yes, that might work. 

[Edge]

The option to use a DC controller turned up to full was in the initial 2023 range announcement video, so Hornby knew it was possible 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Edge

[Ighten]

On 06/04/2023 at 22:47, Pmorgancym said:

Following rhe discussions about sizes, do the 6pin hm7000 decoders actually fit any of the Hornby 6pin locos as they tend to be the smaller stuff like pecketts and sentinels?

A Dremel may come in handy to open up a bit more space or a little rewiring and moving the connector. These are not as small as a small 6 pin and every mm counts in these models. 

 

Is there a reason by the way Hornby have chosen not to do a 6 pin sound version.