Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[terryj]

i am a bit confused on this android version post ,i have no chips to try yet was about to buy but i have downloaded the android version off play store  to my samsung  s20 fe phone 

is it a case of i cant download sounds yet 

[RedgateModels]

6 minutes ago, terryj said:

i am a bit confused on this android version post ,i have no chips to try yet was about to buy but i have downloaded the android version off play store  to my samsung  s20 fe phone 

is it a case of i cant download sounds yet 

The Android version of the HM7000 App is not out yet. DO NOT try pairing an HM7000 decoder to the old HMDC app, it will brick it and will have to go back to Hornby. 

[BachelorBoy]

 

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Nothing to do with that, especially as Philips produced a machine (V2000) that had twice the play time with a better and more stable picture (no tracking control needed)

It was as I said before. Rentals drove the market and Matsushita (JVC) got their machines into the main rental stores.

Philips and Sony had far less rental market exposure and suffered because of it.

With customer's own purchases, Philips and Sony did much better, outselling VHS, but the main market at the time was rental machines.

By the time purchasing had become the main way of acquiring machines VHS was too well established for any major shift in systems.

 

 

 

V2000 was a couple of years later, and by then VHS was too established for Philips to make a difference.

 

You are right that rentals drove the market.

 

Rental companies chose VHS over Beta because VHS was cheaper, and had longer tapes, which was what consumers wanted. You need 90m or 120m to record a film. Betamax only had 60m tapes at first.

 

 

[terryj]

2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

The Android version of the HM7000 App is not out yet. DO NOT try pairing an HM7000 decoder to the old HMDC app, it will brick it and will have to go back to Hornby. 

thanks ,confused me as the app mentioned bluetooth connection etc 

will just have to use any chips i get as normal dcc untill the app if ever 

 

ps i brought the grundig 2000 recorder but then i also brought the atari computer systems both the xl and the st versions

[RAF96]

Philips have always produced outstanding products but failed to get them to market effectively. I researched tapes at the time and their system was exceptional, but in the end I plumped for Betamax based on it going to a two horse race and beta was better than vhs, but then I have a history of backing duff systems, cars, computers, sound systems and TVs, etc.

Ref picking the wrong android app and connecting your HM7000 decoders to it!, there is a whole sticky post on the Hornby forum HM DCC section strongly advising you not to do that.

Edited June 10, 2023 by RAF96
Change Phillips to Philips

[WIMorrison]

Minor point, however extremely important - it was Philips who made the electronics, Phillips is a screw head that people often confuse with pozidrive screw heads - the same screwdriver does not fit both 😂

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

V2000 was a couple of years later, and by then VHS was too established for Philips to make a difference.

Philips had also produced the N1700/2 which were long play and with the slightly longer tapes that were produced could do 3 hrs, but it was a bit of a beast, weighing a ton.

I had an N1502 which had been converted to near N1700 spec which gave the same 3 hours or so play time.

They suffered with being bulky and using a stacked spool tape cassette which needed good (i.e. expensive) engineering to lace and de-lace without a problem. (It still wasn't perfect and could easily screw up a tape)

The JVC machine was an altogether more mass producable device, with their M-Wrap lacing and ideal for the rental market.

 

When I mentioned Matsushita, they are Panasonic which backed the VHS from the outset, the developer was of course JVC (Victor Company of Japan) and the first machines were from JVC.

 

Over time I had: Philips N1502, Grundig 2x4 super (V2000), VHS 1 x standard and 2 x S-VHS. Only the first S-VHS was as good picture-wise as the V2000 machine, the second was inferior and very cheap construction, the first was a real quality device, with a decent chassis & case.

 

I think this is aenough divesion away from the HM7000 et al and will refrain from any more video recorder input

Edited June 10, 2023 by melmerby

[BachelorBoy]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I think this is aenough divesion away from the HM7000 et al and will refrain from any more video recorder input

Agreed. Me too.

Edited June 10, 2023 by BachelorBoy

[D3489gibson]

On 05/06/2023 at 23:15, meatloaf said:

Jenny Kirk has done a video showcasing the diesel sounds.

 

Quite like the 73 sounds.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowf3A_11RU 

 

I must admit, I managed to wind up quite a few club members with the 73 sounds at my local club last week. The baby shark horn was the killer. I had it with F28 (AFC) enabled, I went out to the shop, came back to find it taken off the layout we were testing, and shelved on the non powered section of the fiddleyard... its the small things that give me amusement though, so I did find it funny that they kept getting annoyed with it...

 

Nathan...

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, D3489gibson said:

 

I must admit, I managed to wind up quite a few club members with the 73 sounds at my local club last week. The baby shark horn was the killer. I had it with F28 (AFC) enabled, I went out to the shop, came back to find it taken off the layout we were testing, and shelved on the non powered section of the fiddleyard... its the small things that give me amusement though, so I did find it funny that they kept getting annoyed with it...

 

Nathan...

Apparently the Flying Scotsman chip plays the bagpipes on F18...

[frobisher]

On 09/06/2023 at 15:42, melmerby said:

Unfortunately a lot seem to think that Apple phones are still the majority, like they used to be, but Android now outsell Apple.

 

And pretty much has done since Android launched (and I very much had a professional interest then...).

[frobisher]

8 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

Rental companies chose VHS over Beta because VHS was cheaper, and had longer tapes, which was what consumers wanted. You need 90m or 120m to record a film. Betamax only had 60m tapes at first.

 

There's also the porn factor, Sony originally blocked adult content being released on Betamax, JVC didn't care, that was a major driving factor in the rental market as well...

[Pmorgancym]

8 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

There's also the porn factor, Sony originally blocked adult content being released on Betamax, JVC didn't care, that was a major driving factor in the rental market as well...

Same with blueray and HD disc I believe, the porn industry adopted blue Ray and everyone else followed.   

[Pmorgancym]

7 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Philips have always produced outstanding products but failed to get them to market effectively. I researched tapes at the time and their system was exceptional, but in the end I plumped for Betamax based on it going to a two horse race and beta was better than vhs, but then I have a history of backing duff systems, cars, computers, sound systems and TVs, etc.

Ref picking the wrong android app and connecting your HM7000 decoders to it!, there is a whole sticky post on the Hornby forum HM DCC section strongly advising you not to do that.

This is giving my great confidence on the future of HM7000  ;D

[frobisher]

1 minute ago, Pmorgancym said:

Same with blueray and HD disc I believe, the porn industry adopted blue Ray and everyone else followed.   

A big factor for Bluray was the Playstation 3 having it (it worked out to be a relatively cheap BD player at the time) which pushed a lot of purchasing of films during the initial games content drought, but there was plenty of early adult content on HD-DVD (JVC again...) and no region locking on any content.

[Chrisr40]

8 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Same with blueray and HD disc I believe, the porn industry adopted blue Ray and everyone else followed.   

I though blue Ray was the guy who flogged mucky videos down the pub ?

[BachelorBoy]

11 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Same with blueray and HD disc I believe, the porn industry adopted blue Ray and everyone else followed.   

So the future of HM7000 depends on the porn industry adopting it?

 

I'll get my dirty mac. 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by BachelorBoy

[RAF96]

5 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

So the future of HM7000 depends on the porn industry adopting it?

 

I'll get my dirty mac. 

 

 

F29 - sounds of heavy (steamy) breathing.? F30 - oh god there’s a train coming.

[Kris]

I currently have a problem with one of my HM7000 decoders. It works fine on normal dcc but not on bluetooth. I can see the decoder and change the settings via bluetooth but I can not control it via bluetooth. I have sent it back to Hornby who said that there is nothing wrong with it however the problem continues. Any suggestions? 

[Dunsignalling]

23 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

This is giving my great confidence on the future of HM7000  ;D

As ever, bears out my policy of not buying any innovative technology for a couple of years while the early adopters have the joy of witnessing the debugging process "live". 🙃

 

I'm more than happy with the Blue Railways analogue Bluetooth system for now, though I may reconsider in time. Despite not having yet been won over by DCC, with or without sound, HM7000 seems to have the potential to bring the cost down to a point I'm prepared to pay.  

 

John

[ColinB]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

As ever, bears out my policy of not buying any innovative technology for a couple of years while the early adopters have the joy of witnessing the debugging process "live". 🙃

 

I'm more than happy with the Blue Railways analogue Bluetooth system for now, though I may reconsider in time. Despite not having yet been won over by DCC, with or without sound, HM7000 seems to have the potential to bring the cost down to a point I'm prepared to pay.  

 

John

The trouble with all of this DCC included is it relies to a great amount on how good the software is. Even with DCC you see that it has not really been developed to its full potential. I find the Hornby Elite is brilliant at programming locos with nice menus that make it really easy, but come to run more than one loco it is a bit clunky. There is a programming option on DCC if I remember rightly, but nobody uses it to load sound files. Trouble is good software costs a lot of money and good programmers will start a project and then move on to better things so you get half finished projects especially on low cost items. Hornby have the Elite, Select,  and many other projects for DCC, most haven't really changed since they were first designed, just the odd bug fix now and then. So now we have another one for them to add.

[RAF96]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

There is a programming option on DCC if I remember rightly, but nobody uses it to load sound files.

Sound profiles cannot be loaded by DCC,  as they’re obtained over the air from the Hornby server, which is accessed by way of your account login from the app.

[ColinB]

6 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Sound profiles cannot be loaded by DCC,  as they’re obtained over the air from the Hornby server, which is accessed by way of your account login from the app.

What I meant is you could reprogram sound files using the DCC feature, I think Zimo mention it as one of their advantages. Trouble is there is no joined up thinking between suppliers of decoders and controllers. It has nothing to do with the Hornby system, I was mentioning that they could have done it that way. The Bluetooth system copies bytes to the decoder using the Bluetooth protocol, DCC copies bytes to the decoder as does CAN and wireless. You take the file chop into to streams of bytes and download it to the target. Hornby just chose to do it that way. I know pretty well how Hornby do it, it is virtually the way everyone does it. The only issue is do they copy the whole file to the smart device before they chop it up or do they chop it up on the server and pass streams of bytes to the Smart Device? Normally you copy the file then delete the file afterwards. Either way I was just pointing out the many ideas that were never improved upon, nothing to do with HM7000. I have said I all I want to on that. If you want to get technical what we used to do was compress the file (there is algorithm for the compression) transfer it then expand it on the device before it got downloaded, it makes the transfer quicker as you don't handle such big files.

[newbryford]

Just read Ian's review of HM7000 in BRM.

Other than saying it uses an app to load (and control) ,it doesn't even mention the words Apple or Android and the availability of the app.

 

 

[ColinB]

24 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Just read Ian's review of HM7000 in BRM.

Other than saying it uses an app to load (and control) ,it doesn't even mention the words Apple or Android and the availability of the app.

 

 

I think that they are all relying on the Android app being available very soon. For the last couple of months I have heard that so often. Love him or hate him that is why I value Sam's reviews so much, he would actually mention it. Amazon advertises it, again no mention of it currently not working with Android. A disappointed customer is quite often a lost one. As one of my managers said one, "it is not only the customer but all the people they deal with".

Edited June 13, 2023 by ColinB