Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[ColinB]

42 minutes ago, MistaMatthews said:

Can anyone comment on these stay alives? I’ve read somewhere before that the Hornby power bank is more than just capacitors and that other stay alives may not be suitable. This one however is stating that it works with HM7000 decoders.

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/ae-model-2-wire-stay-alive/?fbclid=IwAR2ntQO8UnNWZLHxjj_sHUr40GasrENY55waKglMJnvCHnq4aMWhryic5mA_aem_AW4iZH94zsnn-eJt-CXoNhujlHK9ede5npSKftW0BL6fTGhyMU5PsKfP-n3IrMmKvCo

I am not sure about other "stay alives" but DCC Concepts seem pretty competent so if they say they work they probably do. I took my powerbank apart (well removed the shrink wrap) and yes it contains more than some capacitors. It looks like a transistor and a couple of diodes but then a LaisDCC one contains roughly the same. I think the complication is that it uses the decoder's microprocessor to control it, I assume controlling its connection to Vref. To do it properly you need 3 wires as Train O Matic do, Hornby's one only uses two wires. 

[Ighten]

I had a break for a while from the railway as I've been working abroad a while..

 

When I came back I placed a loco on the cleaned track and got no response from my DCC controller.. yet every other loco non hm7000 was fine

 

After several hours of fruitless headscratching and jet lag sleep it dawned on me that my phone had Bluetooth off . Turning it on immediately sprung life into everything.

 

But my point and query is, shouldn't it be irrelevant as once I put my profiles on,  these are all run in DCC mode through my controller, not Bluetooth through the phone app. Or am I misunderstanding here.

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Ighten said:

I had a break for a while from the railway as I've been working abroad a while..

 

When I came back I placed a loco on the cleaned track and got no response from my DCC controller.. yet every other loco non hm7000 was fine

 

After several hours of fruitless headscratching and jet lag sleep it dawned on me that my phone had Bluetooth off . Turning it on immediately sprung life into everything.

 

But my point and query is, shouldn't it be irrelevant as once I put my profiles on,  these are all run in DCC mode through my controller, not Bluetooth through the phone app. Or am I misunderstanding here.

Maybe the last time you ran that loco, before you went away, it was set for Bluetooth operation?  I think it stays that way until you toggle back to DCC operation.  I use all my HM7000 locos in DCC mode.  I have the app just on a Lenovo tablet (purchased especially for programming HM7000 decoders) which is often left for days without being used and the battery runs out.  But all my decoders still work on DCC. 

Edited March 30 by cravensdmufan
Additional wording

[Johan DC]

I have, strangely enough, just the opposite problem.  My B12 doesn’t run on BT. I didn’t think about testing it on my DCC controller, so I took it apart and cleaned all the wheels and contacts before the penny dropped. It works like a charm with my z21, but nothing with the app.

[RAF96]

15 hours ago, Johan DC said:

I have, strangely enough, just the opposite problem.  My B12 doesn’t run on BT. I didn’t think about testing it on my DCC controller, so I took it apart and cleaned all the wheels and contacts before the penny dropped. It works like a charm with my z21, but nothing with the app.

Is it showing as connected in the app - blue icon.

[Johan DC]

3 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Is it showing as connected in the app - blue icon.

It wasn't, and what was also strange, both Profile ROM Version and Boot ROM Version were v0.0, although I am 100% I did update these.

So I unlinked and deleted, and started again. Now my B12 is chuffing nicely around the layout, both on app as with the z21.

I still have a problem with another, I can change the cv's with my z21, but they don't move, or make a sound.

So when I'm of work later today, I'll do the same as above.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Northerngirl]

Any idea what's happened with the profiles that were due q1

[Bob83a]

2 hours ago, Northerngirl said:

Any idea what's happened with the profiles that were due q1

The schedule is only a guide. Hornby often seem to miss some release dates but often it is only by a week or two. Some of the profiles are linked to model releases but they often slip.

 

There should be an updated schedule soon.

[simons9]

I’m not sure if this has been covered before, Apologies if so . I’m Running hm7000 really well on my ogauge layout . I have a Dapol signal with a Train tech  DCC controller . Works off the track but can I add Dcc accessories to the HM7000 controller on my IPad ? Can’t see anything in the app apart from accessories toolbar but can’t see how add accessories into this. Many thanks Simon 

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, simons9 said:

I’m not sure if this has been covered before, Apologies if so . I’m Running hm7000 really well on my ogauge layout . I have a Dapol signal with a Train tech  DCC controller . Works off the track but can I add Dcc accessories to the HM7000 controller on my IPad ? Can’t see anything in the app apart from accessories toolbar but can’t see how add accessories into this. Many thanks Simon 

 

Not yet is the simple answer. I too await accessory control. I guess it will be a while off yet. 

[simons9]

Thank you for coming back to me , I just looked at hm6010 accessory but not really sure what this does ? Be great to know what hornbys  plans are given they gave a setting 😀

Edited April 4 by simons9

[JSpencer]

Do we know if any of the Non-sound chips ever came out? 

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Do we know if any of the Non-sound chips ever came out? 

Last I read on the Hornby Website was they were blaming the shortage of integrated circuits for the delay.

[ColinB]

On 30/03/2024 at 17:04, Johan DC said:

I have, strangely enough, just the opposite problem.  My B12 doesn’t run on BT. I didn’t think about testing it on my DCC controller, so I took it apart and cleaned all the wheels and contacts before the penny dropped. It works like a charm with my z21, but nothing with the app.

A question I would like to ask seeing as you have a Z21, why are you bothering with the Hornby App, other than to program decoders. I recently upgraded my Digikeijs with the Yamorc upgrade, which means I can use the Z21 App on my phone and tablet, it seems to do mostly everything the Hornby App does. OK you have to input your own function tables but it seems pretty good.

[Johan DC]

32 minutes ago, ColinB said:

A question I would like to ask seeing as you have a Z21, why are you bothering with the Hornby App, other than to program decoders. I recently upgraded my Digikeijs with the Yamorc upgrade, which means I can use the Z21 App on my phone and tablet, it seems to do mostly everything the Hornby App does. OK you have to input your own function tables but it seems pretty good.

I don’t have an upgrade, so the HM7000 system was by far the easiest and cheapest way. The number of functions on a multimaus are more limited, and for sound don’t give the type. Just a gimmick, but nice to have. Changing locos is also easier. I have about 30 chipped locos, when I only run a couple on the layout, it’s very easy with HM7000, you disable all the others, so switching is child’s play. 
If I’m running a non-sound loco alone, I sometimes use the multimaus, still prefer the knob above the virtual slide bar or speedbuttons. For programming the TXS decoders, I also prefer the app, you can see all the CV’s in a blink, and can just write them on the track (apart from CV1). And that’s handy since I have PIKO A-rails. 
The app isn’t too bad, especially on IOS (don’t like it on Android, but could be my old phone too).  How do you compare it to the z21 app?

[Bob83a]

5 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Do we know if any of the Non-sound chips ever came out? 

All 4 non-sound decoders are shown on the Hornby site as arriving Autumn 2024

[ColinB]

48 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

I don’t have an upgrade, so the HM7000 system was by far the easiest and cheapest way. The number of functions on a multimaus are more limited, and for sound don’t give the type. Just a gimmick, but nice to have. Changing locos is also easier. I have about 30 chipped locos, when I only run a couple on the layout, it’s very easy with HM7000, you disable all the others, so switching is child’s play. 
If I’m running a non-sound loco alone, I sometimes use the multimaus, still prefer the knob above the virtual slide bar or speedbuttons. For programming the TXS decoders, I also prefer the app, you can see all the CV’s in a blink, and can just write them on the track (apart from CV1). And that’s handy since I have PIKO A-rails. 
The app isn’t too bad, especially on IOS (don’t like it on Android, but could be my old phone too).  How do you compare it to the z21 app?

The trouble with the HM7000 for full functionality HM7000s have to be fitted to all your locos. If like me you have a few HM7000s (5 in my case) and the rest are a mixture of Zimos, LokSounds, Hornby TTS and various others the App won't work. Sure you can buy the Dongle but if you use an Elite you have to define the locos twice, once on the HM7000 and once on the Elite, it doesn't have what I would call dynamic allocating of locos (where the DCC controller is just a pass through device). Of course when you power down the Elite generally all that info gets lost (I think there is a way to save it).  Now the Z21 App with the upgraded Digikeijs does exactly that, you only have to define the loco on the z21 App. As for CVs, well for all the non HM7000 decoders I have to do that the old way and from what I gather from the "bug reports" the HM7000 struggles with bit maps at the moment not writing some CVs properly.

[cravensdmufan]

I use the HM7000 app usually just to load loco profiles and adjust CVs on the decoders; I have had no problems whatsoever. I really like the way it's so easy to adjust the spot sound levels. And to wipe and replace a profile and maybe swap the decoder into a different loco should I wish.

 

My HM7000 decoders are usually set for DCC control from my NCE Powercab, along with Loksound, Zimo and TTS fitted traction. Very occasionally if I have a visitor to the layout I will switch a few HM7000 locos over to Bluetooth to control those from the app on the tablet so we can both operate.

My HM7000 decoders have provided smooth motor control in Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan diesels without need for CV adjustment. 

 

I have a few old Limas to hard wire too - just wondering if those will work just as well.  Has anyone tried?

[ColinB]

14 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

I use the HM7000 app usually just to load loco profiles and adjust CVs on the decoders; I have had no problems whatsoever. I really like the way it's so easy to adjust the spot sound levels. And to wipe and replace a profile and maybe swap the decoder into a different loco should I wish.

 

My HM7000 decoders are usually set for DCC control from my NCE Powercab, along with Loksound, Zimo and TTS fitted traction. Very occasionally if I have a visitor to the layout I will switch a few HM7000 locos over to Bluetooth to control those from the app on the tablet so we can both operate.

My HM7000 decoders have provided smooth motor control in Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan diesels without need for CV adjustment. 

 

I have a few old Limas to hard wire too - just wondering if those will work just as well.  Has anyone tried?

With your Limas if you fit a 8 pin socket rather than hard wiring them, it gives you the option to try any decoder easily. If it doesn't work just fit a DC header. Hornby in their specification for their HM7000 state that the maximum current is one amp which should be ok, that is another reason for fitting a socket. If by chance it doesn't you can easily pull it out, to send back to Hornby without them complaining you invalidated the warranty by cutting off the 8 pin plug.

 

With my HM7000 i do the same as you, I load the profile with the App and try them out on bluetooth. I have a Digikeijs with a multiwindow display, which is much easier to use. If I want to go wirelessly I have the z21 app on a tablet that does roughly the same as the Hornby App. 

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, ColinB said:

With your Limas if you fit a 8 pin socket rather than hard wiring them, it gives you the option to try any decoder easily. If it doesn't work just fit a DC header. Hornby in their specification for their HM7000 state that the maximum current is one amp which should be ok, that is another reason for fitting a socket.

Great idea, many thanks.

[Ighten]

My limas are all 8 pin fitted with sockets and work fine.. though the auto profile produces the usual Lima 0 to 60 in .5 seconds result so I re programmed the curve manually for slow running.

 

 

My only issue is that this seems to remove some auto functions on f28 from working correctly like break squeal. I need to relook at that. I also have a mix of hm7000 and zimo etc so the app as a controller is pretty pointless, it is however excellent for programming the hm7000 chips and fine tuning on the fly.

[cravensdmufan]

55 minutes ago, Ighten said:

My limas are all 8 pin fitted with sockets and work fine.. though the auto profile produces the usual Lima 0 to 60 in .5 seconds result so I re programmed the curve manually for slow running.

 

 

My only issue is that this seems to remove some auto functions on f28 from working correctly like break squeal. I need to relook at that. I also have a mix of hm7000 and zimo etc so the app as a controller is pretty pointless, it is however excellent for programming the hm7000 chips and fine tuning on the fly.

That 47 is looking, sounding and running absolutely fantastic.   Just shows what can be done with older locos.

 

Lovely scenic work as well

 

Thanks for posting.

Edited April 7 by cravensdmufan
Additional wording

[meatloaf]

Has anyone fitted an HM7000 decoder to a Dapol class 22? Is there room for the stay alive as well?

 

I know theres not a correct soundfile but it gives me access to the stay alive which my 22 definatly needs over some pointwork.

[Porfuera]

I'm having a bit of a problem with one of my HM7000 locos - I think I need to uninstall and reinstall the app on my tablet.

 

Is there anything I need to do first? For example do I need to Unassign my existing locos or even Unlink & Delete them? I don't want to reinstall the app and find that the new install tells me that my locos are linked or assigned to some other app and then won't allow me connect to them.

 

And is there any stored data that I should delete as well?

 

Cheers, Neil.

[Kaput]

6 hours ago, meatloaf said:

Has anyone fitted an HM7000 decoder to a Dapol class 22? Is there room for the stay alive as well?

 

I know theres not a correct soundfile but it gives me access to the stay alive which my 22 definatly needs over some pointwork.

 

It should fit fine, like most modern Dapol diesels there's plenty of space because of the speaker space.

You might need to use a smaller speaker to leave space for the stayalive.

 

I'd be questioning why your 22 needs a stay alive though, 4 axle twin bogie diesel usually means at least one bogie is safely off the pointwork at any given time.