Montreux_1991 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 13:17, MOB 2002 said: Can’t help but think they’d have done better by packaging up the Bdt with some SBB EWI’s all in NPZ livery. Surely the market for BLS driving trailers is fairly well catered for by Hobbytrain right now? Still, I suppose it does mean that we are finally seeing the Bdt without it being essential to buy an Rbe4/4 too. Mark Perhaps someone at Piko had been watching Youtube and thought they could crash Hobbytrain's party? ► Abschied von den BLS EW I Wagen (youtube.com) These won't be cheap - Menzels Lokschuppen have pre-listed the two-car 'Bdt plus B' set and the three-car set at 190 EUR each - but for my money (having one of each in my collection) the Piko Bdt is a better model than the Hobbytrain driving trailer, and likely to 'go' better with the Piko coaches. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 7 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: These won't be cheap - Indeed the catalogue gives Piko's RRP (Euro 210) - the German big retailers as usual will probably knock 10 - 20 Euros off that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 13:17, MOB 2002 said: Can’t help but think they’d have done better by packaging up the Bdt with some SBB EWI’s all in NPZ livery. Still, I suppose it does mean that we are finally seeing the Bdt without it being essential to buy an Rbe4/4 too. Mark Here we are again! Piko's decision making perennially baffles me. First there was the 'no driving trailer without an RBe' - now here we have the long awaited 'separate' BDt but it is (a) in essentially a very short lived guise (SBB NPZ livery with a particular BLS logo) and (b) still paired with something which perhaps we don't want (c) the RRP of 210 makes it not hugely cheaper than the price of an RBe/BDt pair . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreux_1991 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Next up: Arnold 2024 looks like a great year for Italian motive power (D445, E646 and ETR1000) but the only new Swiss items are BLS re4/4s (161, 173 and 192, with or without sound) and two Epoch II Edelweiss-Pullman coach sets. It's now 33 years and counting since the Lima NPZ was last produced. Does this mean Arnold / Hornby don't have usable tooling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 6 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6 Marklin/ LGB are announcing on the 8th at 4pm. If this isn’t a tease it looks like a MGB Hge 4/4 to go with their existing GEX coaches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOB 2002 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: Next up: Arnold 2024 looks like a great year for Italian motive power (D445, E646 and ETR1000) but the only new Swiss items are BLS re4/4s (161, 173 and 192, with or without sound) and two Epoch II Edelweiss-Pullman coach sets. It's now 33 years and counting since the Lima NPZ was last produced. Does this mean Arnold / Hornby don't have usable tooling? Not so great for the rolling stock to go with the Italian motive power though! It looks like slate grey UIC’s and C1 liveried Eurofimas will appear again, but good luck trying to get hold of liver and grey UIC carriages … and please nobody mention full brakes! From what I’ve seen the 2023 releases of Italian coaching stock has sold out almost before it’s hit the shelves. The Lima NPZ was a frustratingly good model for its time. I can only assume the fact most recent liveries would require the tooling of a new centre car has ruled it out. Good second hand ones still often go at around the £150 mark even with the prehistoric Lima EWI. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreux_1991 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, MOB 2002 said: Not so great for the rolling stock to go with the Italian motive power though! It looks like slate grey UIC’s and C1 liveried Eurofimas will appear again, but good luck trying to get hold of liver and grey UIC carriages … and please nobody mention full brakes! From what I’ve seen the 2023 releases of Italian coaching stock has sold out almost before it’s hit the shelves. The Lima NPZ was a frustratingly good model for its time. I can only assume the fact most recent liveries would require the tooling of a new centre car has ruled it out. Good second hand ones still often go at around the £150 mark even with the prehistoric Lima EWI. Mark Livery application has always struck me as the weakest point of the Lima NPZ - the shame is that Arnold re-issued centre cars (3256/7/8) in the 1990s with plug doors, close coupling and a much sharper finish, but didn't reissue the NPZ. Adding insult to injury, they used a ‘paler than Lima’ shade of yellow for the doors. Even today, a sharp coat of paint (plus - ideally - upgraded bogies and pantographs) would make a fine model, assuming the tooling remains usable. I wish I could say the same for the Arnold UIC-X coaches. Or pretty much any of the alternatives, for one reason or another… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: Livery application has always struck me as the weakest point of the Lima NPZ - the shame is that Arnold re-issued centre cars (3256/7/8) in the 1990s with plug doors, close coupling and a much sharper finish, but didn't reissue the NPZ. Adding insult to injury, they used a ‘paler than Lima’ shade of yellow for the doors. Even today, a sharp coat of paint (plus - ideally - upgraded bogies and pantographs) would make a fine model, assuming the tooling remains usable. It's now 33 years and counting since the Lima NPZ was last produced. Does this mean Arnold / Hornby don't have usable tooling? One possible factor in the 'reissue the NPZ?' scenario is exactly the fact that it was produced 30 years ago - ie at the time when NPZ was 'the latest thing' - which is certainly isn't now, with only Dominos left 'in the current public eye' . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Morning, As already mentioned above, here are the Arnold BLS Re4/4 from the catalogue. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Frutigen Posted January 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8 (edited) These Browns are very welcome but I hope they’ve sorted out the chassis for this run. I have one from the previous release of these improved models (as opposed to the much older models with blanked out cab windows). The body is well modelled, the colouring is good, and it ran well for a while. But the electrical path from bogies to chassis was through very fine soldered wires which too often came unattached in use and were virtually impossible to resolder without damage to the plastic parts. It has been in pieces on my work bench for over a year now while I try to come up with a fix. Edited January 8 by Frutigen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottardo Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Frutigen said: These Browns are very welcome but I hope they’ve sorted out the chassis for this run. I have one from the previous release of these improved models (as opposed to the much older models with blanked out cab windows). The body is well modelled, the colouring is good, and it ran well for a while. But the electrical path from bogies to chassis was through very fine soldered wires which too often came unattached in use and were virtually impossible to resolder without damage to the plastic parts. It has been in pieces on my work bench for over a year now while I try to come up with a fix. I have had exactly the same problem with my Arnold Re 4/4's but luckily been able to re-solder them without damage. I have also had wires come adrift in the Arnold Re 484 and even the much more recent ETR 610. Arnold really need to find ways of making these wires more durable or better still get rid of them altogether like most other manufacturers have done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOB 2002 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Can’t see the Minitrix ‘new’ product announcement setting many pulses racing here: https://streaming.maerklin.de/public-media/m/nh24/1/MINITRIX/PDFs/EN_minitrix_nh2024_Online.pdf A re-released Swiss Express set and matching re-re-re-released Re4/4II is about it. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8 Two nice completely new toolings from LGB but unfortunately €1450 each. The MGB loco will no doubt come in Brunig and FO liveries later. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michanglais Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Talking of 'new' items, I thought I might as well post here. I've just taken delivery of a few Fleischmann EWIV red-door coaches. I'm pleased to say that the doors and stripe are in the correct 'vibrant' red colour and not the rather dull and lack lustre colour shown in the catalogue (if that was putting anyone off). Do feel free to move this post if there's anywhere more relevant to put it. Cheers, Michael 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOB 2002 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 If last year is a gauge, could the 2024 Fleischmann announcements be imminent - was January 10 last year. I can’t imagine anything earth shattering, but part of me expects to see an Re10/10 combo. If so I hope it’s in pre Cargo condition. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 07/01/2024 at 08:13, cornish trains jez said: Morning, As already mentioned above, here are the Arnold BLS Re4/4 from the catalogue. Best regards, Jeremy As the pictures are photomontages, I wonder if the re-run might be re-tooled with more accurate ratio of width to height shape. Thanks to some of the people frequenting this forum, I realised that the cab windows are more like an Ae4/4, so sold both my Arnold BLS163s on the basis that - if the expensive up to date model is inaccurate I may as well stick to using the older models. As such at present i have about three of the older bodies (including the BN lettered version) running on Minitrix Re4/4II chassis . Edited January 11 by Gordonwis 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Regarding BLS Brownies. I should also have added that there is a very nicely done 3D printed Re4/4 available through Shapeways. It can be made to sit nicely on at least two of the available Swiss Bo-Bo chassis options (ie Kato Ae4/4 and Minitrix Re4/4II 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 A useful guide for N gauge: https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ef5df3b132f60800JmltdHM9MTcwNDkzMTIwMCZpZ3VpZD0zMmY3ZTgzMC03NDZkLTY5YTMtMWU4YS1mYTU2NzVhNjY4YmYmaW5zaWQ9NTIwMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=32f7e830-746d-69a3-1e8a-fa5675a668bf&psq=Fleischmann+neuheiten+2024&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc3B1cndlaXRlLW4uZGUv&ntb=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Here is the Shapeways BLS 174, compared against Arnold, and Kato Ae4/4. The key is that the Arnold Re4/4, like the current Fleischmann Re4/4II is too wide for its height, resulting in a disappointingly squat appearance. The same 'body too wide' issue also afflicts quite a few other models, notably the Minitrix DDR Ludmilla, and the Kato 1:150 Ge4/4II . Note that this exercise has proven to me that it is really the shape issue not the windows that is the problem (I've edited my earlier port to reflect this) The crispness of the number and lettering on 174 is notably good for a 3D print Edited January 11 by Gordonwis 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreux_1991 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Picking up a few comments on the Arnold BLS Re 4/4: Excess width is a longstanding problem in N gauge – not least on steam engines with (inevitably overscale) outside cylinders and valve gear. Arnold (BLS) and Fleischmann (SBB) Re 4/4s are both around 19.5mm wide. On the Fleischmann, most of the excess width seems to be in one place – the rounded ‘cab corner’ windows – making it obvious now I know what to look for. I’m not sure the Arnold is so obvious. That said, earlier Arnold production looked so bad (black plastic windows being a particular low point) that I’m surprised Lemaco never tried their luck in brass. As already noted by Frutigen, the model was reissued around ten years ago (HNS 2238 / 2239 /2240) with clear glazing, interior detail and improved finish. I assume this year’s models will have sound-related chassis modifications but no further changes to the bodyshell. For a replacement chassis I’d look no further than the (split frame, smooth-running) Hobbytrain SBB Re 4/4. If you’re not fussy about livery, complete brand-new models can usually be found on ebay.de from around EUR 125. I’m also puzzled by comments (on this thread and the recent ‘Ae 4/4 being winched’ thread) that BLS Ae 4/4 and Re 4/4 look similar. Doesn’t everyone just look at the cab window frames? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DIW Posted January 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12 (edited) 14 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: That said, earlier Arnold production looked so bad (black plastic windows being a particular low point) that I’m surprised Lemaco never tried their luck in brass. FWIW Lemaco issued a Re4/4i in N. It is 18.55mm wide excluding handrails, 19.55mm wide including the handrails. 14 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: I’m also puzzled by comments (on this thread and the recent ‘Ae 4/4 being winched’ thread) that BLS Ae 4/4 and Re 4/4 look similar. Doesn’t everyone just look at the cab window frames? I'm sure that the GWR modellers feel the same way when folk say that there's no difference between Saints, Stars, Halls and Castles (the Churchward and subsequent versions, of course!) Edited January 12 by DIW Speeling eroor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 16 hours ago, Montreux_1991 said: That said, earlier Arnold production looked so bad (black plastic windows being a particular low point) that I’m surprised Lemaco never tried their luck in brass. The black plastic windows don't bother me too much, after all windows do appear black in many types of outdoor lighting conditions - just look at photos of the real thing where in many cases the cab windows look black, eg : https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.9d5100e9026ee2fe88e5d31bdb4a624f?rik=NQYhfR%2bCMD1XOg&pid=ImgRaw&r=0 Also opaque windows they mask the lack of a driver that is rather obvious on some models. The original idea was also to presumably hide the motor inside. Overall despite the squat appearance I'm quite happy with the 'middle-older' moulding - which even has slightly raised worksplates. The black side windows can be replaced. My BN 179 currently has no side glazing at all at isn't all that apparent from a distance. And on the subject of seeing the model chassis through clear windows, I find seeing the chassis block through the windows is actually quite nice, you see some metalwork which is, after all an electric motor housing just like the real thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOB 2002 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Looks like the 2024 Fleischmann catalogue has been leaked … https://www.trainsdepot.org/manufacturers/pdfs/download/1290/fleischmann_novelties_2024_pdf The big potential excitement seems to be a completely new Re4/4 II, although that’s slightly tempered by the fact that there seems to be neither a green or a red one coming any time soon! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, MOB 2002 said: Looks like the 2024 Fleischmann catalogue has been leaked … https://www.trainsdepot.org/manufacturers/pdfs/download/1290/fleischmann_novelties_2024_pdf The big potential excitement seems to be a completely new Re4/4 II, although that’s slightly tempered by the fact that there seems to be neither a green or a red one coming any time soon! Mark Photo montages - so no guarantees yet ! However it would be pretty poor if the marketing people hadn't woken up to the shape inaccuracies of the previous 'brand new' Re4/4II (and also perhaps an 'egg on face ' admission that they spent loads a money on a duff model) An interesting thing in the 'inset blow up' images is what looks like a raised FFS lettering . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOB 2002 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 If it’s up to the standard of the Re6/6 then I’m sure it’ll be great. But I don’t get the choice of prototypes they’ve gone for - then again, I think most of the manufacturers have serious quick wins of re-liveries that would fly off the shelves on their hands. I think an obvious one for Fleischmann actually would be their steel baggage carriage with the post 1987 SBB logo. Nobody else is filling that gap. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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