Model Railway .stl file resources?

[SteveM666]

10 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Phil,

 

I think that I may be forgiven for taking personally an insulting post, made in response to my own post. Disclaiming the personal aspect now is invidious, but adding a further insult is, frankly, pathetic!

 

No-one is asking you, or anyone else, to work for nothing. Please explain how my transfer offering, or any other offering from retired persons, adversely affects anyone who relies upon their commercial operations for a living.

 

If I did not offer my range of in excess of two hundred transfer sheets at cost plus a modest profit, those transfers would simply be unavailable. The limited sales of obscure subjects that I make are not profitable enough to support a commercial operation.

 

So - get used to it - we retired modellers will continue to enjoy producing items that other modellers find useful - at prices that are affordable.

 

...... and we are NOT damaging other businesses.

 

CJI.

Absolutely.

[MJI]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Just to be clear, my friend uploads his files to Thingiverse, in the knowledge that they might be used for profit - he has no objection to this.

 

He simply enjoys the design process.

 

I can see no problem with this.

 

CJI.

I would not feel comfortable doing that

[cctransuk]

16 minutes ago, MJI said:

I would not feel comfortable doing that

 

Genuine question - why?

 

He enjoyed creating the design, so he makes it freely available to others to do with as they see fit.

 

My reaction is that it is an extremely generous gesture - what makes you uncomfortable?

 

CJI.

[MJI]

11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Genuine question - why?

 

He enjoyed creating the design, so he makes it freely available to others to do with as they see fit.

 

My reaction is that it is an extremely generous gesture - what makes you uncomfortable?

 

CJI.

Making money out of them

[cctransuk]

Just now, MJI said:

Making money out of them

 

The creator of the design is perfectly comfortable with others making money from his work.

 

That being the case, I see no problem.

 

CJI.

[rue_d_etropal]

What on person does should not be used as a justification for others being expected to do the same. I would love to just be doin this for pleasure. I started out because I wanted to produce a particular model for myself. Rather than then in effect giving it away , I used the services provided to let other buy the sam model. As I have then said over the year, one thing you can guarantee is someone asking or that same model in noher scale. Then you get requests for copies of STL files. I have liked at this issue for a few years, and it has to be handled very carefully, which is one reason I would prefer to offer complete collections, but only if enough people are interested . Unlike some schemes out there I would then put no restrictions on use, apart from making it clear I am the designer and noone else tries to take ownership of those designs. 

[njee20]

And that’s fine, but as we discussed previously I think your valuations are gross overestimations. What does ‘ownership ’ of the designs mean in this context? Given you’re saying people can do with them as they please?

 

I design stuff because I want the items generally. I don’t want to do it commercially. I have covered my equipment/material costs with what I’ve sold, but I would never want to do it for a job, I actually hate the stress of having an order to get ready! I don’t price my time (because it’s a hobby, and I enjoy it), so the price I sell things for is basically covering my costs and a bit. I wouldn’t want to give away my STLs; nor would I want to sell them for most of my models because I’ve worked hard on them, and value them still.  

[cctransuk]

On 10/08/2023 at 10:52, rue_d_etropal said:

What on person does should not be used as a justification for others being expected to do the same. I would love to just be doin this for pleasure. I started out because I wanted to produce a particular model for myself. Rather than then in effect giving it away , I used the services provided to let other buy the sam model. As I have then said over the year, one thing you can guarantee is someone asking or that same model in noher scale. Then you get requests for copies of STL files. I have liked at this issue for a few years, and it has to be handled very carefully, which is one reason I would prefer to offer complete collections, but only if enough people are interested . Unlike some schemes out there I would then put no restrictions on use, apart from making it clear I am the designer and noone else tries to take ownership of those designs. 

 

What you are trying to sell is, to a prospective buyer, a complete unknown. You may be confident that the designs are viable, but I would want to see each and every design in printed form before I would even consider parting with money.

 

I would also want to know the print process and all the other printing criteria necessary in order to duplicate those prints.

 

On top of all that, I would want to know how many prints of each design had been sold over what period, and at what price.

 

You clearly feel that you have a goldmine of designs that you want to convert into cash, with little or no further personal input.

 

Life is not like that - converting your collection of designs into saleable products is going to involve a great deal of effort by someone - IF it ultimately proves to be a viable project; personally, I strongly doubt it.

 

CJI.

[rue_d_etropal]

As with many of these discussions and main reason I tend not to get involved thes day is that everyone wants something but they want someone else to do the work, and then don't want to pay for it. Having run a model railway shop myself I have sen that same discussion with respect to real shops disappearing. 

 

As it happens developments in Shapeways is going on for a pay for download service. My only fear with that is that some will think it ok to pay for one download then pass it onto their friends to share. But when Shapeways have implemented this then I will probably have a go for some of my designs initially. For that reason I have not formally announced my ideas for collections of designs. 

 

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

As with many of these discussions and main reason I tend not to get involved thes day is that everyone wants something but they want someone else to do the work, and then don't want to pay for it. Having run a model railway shop myself I have sen that same discussion with respect to real shops disappearing. 

 

As it happens developments in Shapeways is going on for a pay for download service. My only fear with that is that some will think it ok to pay for one download then pass it onto their friends to share. But when Shapeways have implemented this then I will probably have a go for some of my designs initially. For that reason I have not formally announced my ideas for collections of designs. 

 

 

The problem with a paid design file download service is the same one that is frequently discussed concerning photo copyright.

 

The copyright owner states ' No downloads'; the archive site disables downloads; but the very act of viewing the photo involves a download. Anyone with any basic knowledge of the Internet knows how to save the file to their own device.

 

I fear that it will be impossible to retain any control whatsoever once the first download of your designs has been made.

 

CJI.

[chris p bacon]

8 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

Shapeways is going on for a pay for download service. My only fear with that is that some will think it ok to pay for one download then pass it onto their friends to share.

 

If someone buys something online, they would not unreasonably expect to own it and to do what they want with it. You would be unable to put any restriction on its use which would be enforceable.

 

8 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

everyone wants something but they want someone else to do the work

In the same way that up to now you've wanted someone else to print your stl's with no recourse for how inaccurate they are and don't want to deal with any problems.  And now you want to sell the same inaccurate 'designs' but want someone else to come up with an idea of how to do it but still retain control. 

I've seen a couple of your 'designs' in the flesh and they're terrible, a generic shape to the body that bore no resemblance to the prototype and wildy inaccurate details. To get the numbers you've got you've just resized without a thought as to wall thickness.

Just delete it all and move on.

 

[Ray H]

I've had my printer for less than a week, as yet have hardly open any of the associated software packages and have no experience of 3D based design.

 

I am a club member and give freely of my time (and associated costs, such as the car expenses to get there) for the benefit of the club and its members.

 

I've used RMweb for several years (thanks, Andy & team) and gained numerous benefits from it - like answers to questions that I've asked/posted. I like to think that in return I occasionally offer useful responses to posts other RMweb users ask.

 

Equally, I'm a MERG member and benefit from the time and effort a lot of their members put in to enable the likes of me to buy kits that I build to enhance both mine and the club's layouts.

 

I hope one day to be able to design stuff for myself that I can 3D print. In all probability my requirements for the resultant output from those designs will be small/modest and I'll always have the files to fall back on if I want more. I'd be more than happy for others to have access to copies of my files to do with as they please - which includes disregard/delete them if they aren't what was wanted (or aren't up to a standard that was wanted). I wouldn't necessarily object to the downloaded files being passed to others although I realise that that may impact on my suggestion below.

 

Like all the other people with an interest in our hobby, I'm gradually getting older and, one day, will no longer have cause (or the ability) to be concerned about anything happening to our hobby (or anything else on the planet). The same surely applies to a number of small (and possibly not so small) traders who, one day, care of mother nature, will cease to trade (or do anything else).

 

What happens to all the effort that our departed self and colleagues have input into the hobby whilst they were able?

 

Physically existing models/kits/components need ongoing production if they are to remain available. Somebody needs to take this on, it doesn't just happen.

 

Data files - and that's all the .stl files really are - are different. They can continue to exist for an infinite period of  time largely without too much effort by "somebody".

 

I'm not that well versed in IT related facilities so don't know if this idea would work, nor how much effort would be involved, but here goes.

 

Set up a depositary where .stl files could be uploaded to. The upload could include a photo (or two) and, perhaps, a brief description of what the file design covers. The file(s) then become available for download for a nominal sum - 50p/£1 per file - that is used to cover the cost of maintaining the server (or whatever) and any charges that fall due from the company (e.g. Paypal) handling the payment. Any monetary surplus would be used to restrict the need to increase download costs in the future.

 

I have no idea how easy this would be to achieve and or run/maintain. Would it need an ongoing supervisory small group for maintenance of the system (including backing-up of stored data)? How many people would upload files - a number that may determine how much maintenance is required? Is there likely to be enough interest to generate the income required to run the system. Could some kind of (free?) membership to the scheme be a means of (limited) control over where files are uploaded to - e.g. not putting a frogmen's hut design in the area designed intended for wagon related files?

 

Alternately, could each uploader have their own storage area where their files are listed. The list would also become part of the site's overall list of what's available on the site. The overall list provides a link either direct to the listed file or to the uploader's storage area?

 

Could/should the uploader's area also indicate a means of contacting the uploader or would this place an unacceptable burden on the uploader? Would it be possible for each uploader to have a dedicated email address courtesy of the server's facilities. This would serve to provide a degree of security to the uploader least any downloader starts to get irate.

 

Should any such facility be associated with, for example, an existing site like RMweb to give it a little more credence but, hopefully, no more work for Andy Y and team?

 

Just a thought?

[njee20]

 

You’ve just described Cults3D (among others). People upload STLs, they can set a price (or not), people can download them. Job jobbed. 
 

There are plenty of places to share designs, I don’t get why people are getting interested in Shapeways doing it, they’re just reinventing the wheel a bit.

 

If Simon thinks his designs are worth thousands just chuck them on Cults3D and see if people buy them. 
 

It’s probably me being too capitalist, but I’m not sharing my designs for any amount, as you simply cant control what happens to them. 

[Ray H]

8 hours ago, njee20 said:

You’ve just described Cults3D (among others). People upload STLs, they can set a price (or not), people can download them. Job jobbed. 
 

There are plenty of places to share designs, . . . . .

 

Apologies, I'm newer than new to this 3D printing lark and didn't appreciate that there were sites that included model railway related stuff.

 

I've just taken a quick look at the Cults3D site and saw one thing that could be useful.

 

Anybody care to name any of the other sites - I've found Thingiverse? 

[njee20]

I don’t know what you’re wanting to print, so “useful” is subjective. searching “N Scale” yields 2400+ results. 
 

My point is that the answer is not to create a niche site used by a tiny number of people when large global platforms exist. 
 

Yeggi is a notionally a search engine of other sites, but I don’t know which ones. If you want to realise even 10% of the value of a printer learn to design. 

[Ray H]

4 hours ago, njee20 said:

I don’t know what you’re wanting to print, so “useful” is subjective. searching “N Scale” yields 2400+ results. 
 

My point is that the answer is not to create a niche site used by a tiny number of people when large global platforms exist. 
 

Yeggi is a notionally a search engine of other sites, but I don’t know which ones. If you want to realise even 10% of the value of a printer learn to design. 

 

I have every intention of learning to design but as a newbie to the field I'm not yet up to speed with all the various aspects of this amazing technology. I only have a vague idea of how far the machines can go, so finding sites that can give the beginner an idea of what can be achieved as well as, on occasions, avoiding re-inventing the wheel, is where the useful tag comes in.

 

A search for "N Scale" may well yield a fistful of results but the trick to discovering that is to determine whether to use "N" or "O" or "OO" or whatever. After all, I understood that some items can be rescaled (up or down) quite easily. As a predominantly O modeller I wouldn't immediately think of searching for stuff for other scales. I'd guess that it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a list of around 30 different railway related search phrases. There's OO, EM & P4 with both scale and gauge, not to mention the likes of 4mm, 16,5mm and so on.

 

You could quickly run up a significant list of search options and then you have to wade through whatever the search reveals only to eventually find that what you were hoping to find would have been top of the list had you just used a slightly different search key.

 

As you may have detected from my earlier post, I'm more than happy to share/upload any designs that I come up with. I may also download a few to give me some ideas on how to tackle similar projects whilst I'm still learning. After all we're told that we never stop learning.

 

How does a newbie discover all these various sites and how does one learn which are the most popular/more likely to cater for the area you're interested in? I'd never even heard of Yeggi prior to reading your post, so thank you for bringing that to our attention.

 

It just seems to me that it might assist people if there was either a general (in this case railway) go-to site for the hobby or just a plain list - however short or long - of places/sites where people/modellers can find a collection of files for items related to the hobby.

[SteveM666]

Ray, I started by googling “railway stl files free” which quickly turns up a whole host of resources, although not all are ‘free’. Do as I did and grab a couple of files to play and learn with.

I have found all files will need to be resized in your printer software as part of the size-support-slice process but it’s not too difficult to work out how big your model should be in your chosen scale. For example I print figures at 23mm high, the equivalent of 5’9” in OO.

The only way to learn is to try it out and learn from the inevitable mistakes - my best is an OO rowing boat that will soon be on a friend’s O layout.

[njee20]

2 hours ago, Ray H said:

It just seems to me that it might assist people if there was either a general (in this case railway) go-to site for the hobby or just a plain list - however short or long - of places/sites where people/modellers can find a collection of files for items related to the hobby.

But it’s only as good as the items that are on it. You want a site for O gauge STLs of things you want? This is like saying Amazon doesn’t work because I have to search, we need an e-commerce platform which exclusively contains books written about GWR branch lines in 1928. When the model railway site is flooded with thousands of items you still need to know exactly what to look for, and yes, different terms will yield different results. 

 

Search for things. Google is extremely capable. You’ll find fewer items designed specifically for O because they’re physically much larger, and that just doesn’t lend itself to 3D printing in the same way. You can resize anything in your slicing software. Yes you may need to do some legwork. You can resize any STL. In O your problem will be coarse design and unnecessarily thick walls from taking smaller items.

 

For me knowing how to use the printer was a prerequisite to buying one. It seems more and more people are doing the opposite these days. 

[rue_d_etropal]

I used to work in IT,and we were using SQL type code back in the 80s. I remember a conversation with one of the team pushing through expansion of this into other areas to replace traditional programming. It was sold on the basis that it would not fall over, but the problem was known then that you would not necessarily get the results you wanted, and they could be wrong. Now we are stuck with that approach, and it is not surprising we struggle to get the results we want. The internet is too big, even with more powerful computers, and that is not taking into account the money paid to make some items easier to find than others. 

It is one reason I created my own website with all my designs in a more logical structure. No code generation just simple, but clunky code. 

One analogy I have come up with is , imagine you visit the supermarket every week, but every time you visit they have moved everything around so you have to search for everything, and not surprisingly it takes a lot longer to shop, so you shop elsewhere. 

If most of the information stays the same or rarely changes you should have to search to find it. 

[njee20]

But what’s it an analogy for? The internet doesn’t meaningfully change (in this context) at any real interval. Stuff was ‘where you found’ it yesterday. Or are you saying that every time you log on you have to search for ‘model railway forums’ in order to find RMWeb, because it’s not where you left it…? 🤨

[melmoth]

32 minutes ago, rue_d_etropal said:

 

One analogy I have come up with is , imagine you visit the supermarket every week, but every time you visit they have moved everything around so you have to search for everything, and not surprisingly it takes a lot longer to shop, so you shop elsewhere. 

If most of the information stays the same or rarely changes you should have to search to find it. 

 

If only someone would come up with a way for your computer to keep a 'history' of which sites you've visited, or - even better - some kind of function whereby you could remember or 'bookmark' the sites that were of use to you.

[simonmcp]

On 19/08/2023 at 13:55, Ray H said:

 

I have every intention of learning to design but as a newbie to the field I'm not yet up to speed with all the various aspects of this amazing technology. I only have a vague idea of how far the machines can go, so finding sites that can give the beginner an idea of what can be achieved as well as, on occasions, avoiding re-inventing the wheel, is where the useful tag comes in.

 

A search for "N Scale" may well yield a fistful of results but the trick to discovering that is to determine whether to use "N" or "O" or "OO" or whatever. After all, I understood that some items can be rescaled (up or down) quite easily. As a predominantly O modeller I wouldn't immediately think of searching for stuff for other scales. I'd guess that it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a list of around 30 different railway related search phrases. There's OO, EM & P4 with both scale and gauge, not to mention the likes of 4mm, 16,5mm and so on.

 

You could quickly run up a significant list of search options and then you have to wade through whatever the search reveals only to eventually find that what you were hoping to find would have been top of the list had you just used a slightly different search key.

 

As you may have detected from my earlier post, I'm more than happy to share/upload any designs that I come up with. I may also download a few to give me some ideas on how to tackle similar projects whilst I'm still learning. After all we're told that we never stop learning.

 

How does a newbie discover all these various sites and how does one learn which are the most popular/more likely to cater for the area you're interested in? I'd never even heard of Yeggi prior to reading your post, so thank you for bringing that to our attention.

 

It just seems to me that it might assist people if there was either a general (in this case railway) go-to site for the hobby or just a plain list - however short or long - of places/sites where people/modellers can find a collection of files for items related to the hobby.

Hi Ray, be aware that some files are not actually printable. They have holes in them so you would need to repair them. There are several programs that can do this.