Model Railway .stl file resources?

[woko]

5 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

 

Almost forgot. I am happy to demonstrate some of my ideas on how to use my designs, at exhibitions, such as paints and glues , but no one has asked. Although it is nice to see those who do demonstrations at exhibitions, it would be nice to see something other than advanced scratch and kit building, something for the average modeller.

 

 

Hey Simon it be lovely to see some of your finished printed work on this thread that you have been referring to? 
 

cheers

Rob

[spsmiler]

On 21/03/2023 at 22:08, woko said:

Hey Simon it be lovely to see some of your finished printed work on this thread that you have been referring to? 
 

cheers

Rob

I am hoping to have a rue_d_etropal two carriage LNER Tyneside Electrics train finished later this year - my time is limited as I'm caring for a bedridden parent, trying to complete an update on my website, making videos for my YouTube channel and now that spring has arrived am busy in the garden. I'm hoping that the website update will be completed this week so that I'll have more time for railway modelling, although another constraint here is the need for warmer weather so that I can use spray paints etc outdoors.

 

I am also planning to buy some more rue_d_etropal 3D printed model trains, as and when personal finance permits. My interest is in electric multiple units, and for most designs rue_d_etropal is the only alternative to scratchbuilding ... which is beyond my skill set. One gap that needs filling is Class 303 / 311, at present the only option seems to be the specialist bespoke scratch builders Britannia Pacific, but they are expensive. 

 

Sourcing chassis, bogies, underframe equipment etc is also a challenge as I do not know all the traders who sell these things. In this respect Andy at Issinglass has helped me tremendously with many of the items I need, but he specialises in LNER (and constituent) companies. I'm going to need to find a similar business for my models of LMS (Class 502 and 503) trains as I also have bought some of these from rue_d_etropal. 

 

Dealing with messy 3D printing chemicals etc does not appeal to me (and if smelly / noxious would cause much discord with others who live in this house) so I am happy buying from specialist traders.

 

The primary reason why I am even considering 3D printing full carriages at home is because whilst the 'white versatile' printings from Shapeways are better than nothing they (for instance) still require a LOT of work to mimic a smooth metal sided train. Also there are non-prototypical lines lengthwise along the roof which I cannot totally eradicate as it will affect the roof vents.

 

Apart from full carriages there are a few 'very niche' items that I would like and since I am not an art and design guru I'd probably have to commission someone to create the stl (or whatever) files for me to 3D print at home.

 

(A different) Simon

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by spsmiler

[JCL]

It'll be very interesting to see how you get on. Will you be putting your build on Youtube?

[spsmiler]

Hmm, that is not something that I had thought of doing -I was only going to share still image photos. However, 'never say never'. If I do create a video it might be on a rival service (Rumble) and not YouTube. 

 

The first two carriage train will not be motored. Instead what I really want to do is make a five carriage train with another articulated trainset at the other end and a motored pramb carriage in the middle. This had longitudinal seating.

 

Just in case anyone reading this did not know, on warm weather weekends, bank holidays and possibly weekdays too during the school holidays the North Eastern Railway ran some trains with carriages designed for the conveyance of perambulators. This way whole family groups with young children could get to the seaside, without blocking the aisles of the normal passenger trains. It was a really excellent idea.

 

Although the rolling stock used for this type of service changed over time the LNER continued with this, and British Railways too - at least until the dieselisation of the service in the 1960s

 

Nowadays perambulators are rarely used but instead children are carried in pushchairs / buggies / strollers.

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

I would like to share, but best way to see is to see actual models, not just photos. When I did a few exhibitions awhile back I found people very positive, the only problem being that I could not offer actual models and people would have to go online. 

I am contacting Shapeways as I have had an email about a new option for selling STL files online. Just want to check it is genuine and my legal questions, such as copyright and liability. 

 

[stewartingram]

I've purchased a few items via Shapeways, but the big drawback is the huge overall cost. The concept is great, I've had good service, and generally been satisfied with the products. We keep hearing about other rivals to Shapeways, UK based which promise a more cost effective service, but sadly nothing ever happens. One model I purchased ias initially found on Shapeways, but was also offered direct from its producer, at a vastly reduced price, and as I found out, a very personal service when I had need of it. Another model, produced as a 1:76  item, was a model of my own make of car. This was initially introduced to our Owners Club as a Shapeways item, but sadly retailed at over £70 ! I am one who understands prices are what they are, but these are not sustainable. I believe the additional cost, in particular taxes, postage & customs, make up the excess; I'm not sure what the actual production cost would be. And please don't cry Brexit - don't bring politics into the argument. I've purchased a 3D wagon produced in Australia, with their local high PO charges, which was in the end about the same price as a RTR wagon.

Edited July 30, 2023 by stewartingram

[rue_d_etropal]

I quite often buy odd bits of 3d printing, mainly figures, online. Suspect most of the operations are small outfits, maybe one person working from shed,so do wonder how long they will carry on. Prices in some cases are ridiculously low, so I work on principle that I should buy while they are still around. I have seen far too many model suppliers go to the wall, just because they can not deal with problems, some of which are not their fault.

I have been told of someone who can print large scale models, again working from shed, and not a single income. Those prints can take 48hours to do, so for most companies that would no be sustainable. 

This actually gives me hope for home printing, but somehow those designs have to be paid for. 

As it is weekend I don't expect a quick reply from Shapeways, but do wonder if anyone else here has heard anything.  There are a lot I issues concerning selling copies of STL files( as there are selling actual prints), which are all too easy to ignore until there is a problem. 

 

 

[DGO]

21 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

I quite often buy odd bits of 3d printing, mainly figures, online. Suspect most of the operations are small outfits, maybe one person working from shed,so do wonder how long they will carry on. Prices in some cases are ridiculously low, so I work on principle that I should buy while they are still around. I have seen far too many model suppliers go to the wall, just because they can not deal with problems, some of which are not their fault.

I have been told of someone who can print large scale models, again working from shed, and not a single income. Those prints can take 48hours to do, so for most companies that would no be sustainable. 

This actually gives me hope for home printing, but somehow those designs have to be paid for. 

As it is weekend I don't expect a quick reply from Shapeways, but do wonder if anyone else here has heard anything.  There are a lot I issues concerning selling copies of STL files( as there are selling actual prints), which are all too easy to ignore until there is a problem. 

 

 

To be fair many 3D printers take at least 48 hours for large models, A lot depends on the size of the print and the resolution as well as what material, large 3D printers may load up multiple prints in a single printer, this takes time to set up,  using the maximum volume for each print run, then they may need to remove "sprues" or other post processing work . Pricing so far as I am concerned will be related to the size of a print, If someone comes to me with just a couple of 00 scale figures that need printing and they are in no hurry then I will add them to the next print run and the price will be low (materials wise a 00 scale figure in resin is only a few pennies) on the other hand if they want the print ASAP then that means making a special print run. clean up and then sending out by courier and the cost will be much much higher. If you purchase STL's then there will normally be restrictions such as printing for yourself only and not selling the prints to others  This can potentially be difficult if you want a third party to print for you. 

[rue_d_etropal]

Just had confirmation from Shapeways that thi is a genuine option, so had a look at details. As mentioned it does restrict use to personal use only, making it difficult for anyone to use a third party to print. I think this might be a mistake as not everyone has a printer who wants to print, and even then would not be able to print larger models without cutting down into components. 

Also it seems this option will apply to all designs not just one selected for downloading, so is a bigger risk for designers. I would have preferred to have seen it added to the current free download option, which I would have thought was easier to add. 

I am waiting for more info from Shapeways. I do wonder who would pursue people who do break the rules, and copy distribute etc. 

[Modelu Chris]

I know we don't usually venture to this part of the forum but we thought some people may be interested to know that we now have some of our figures available in STL form via Patreon or via our website. If you are a member of our Patreon you can get a discount on our website STL files. 

 

Patreon link:

https://www.patreon.com/modelu3d

 

Modelu downloadable figures:

https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/downloadable-models/

 

If you do decide to join our Patreon we would for you to comment that you found out through RMWeb. 

 

Many thanks for reading. 

[rue_d_etropal]

Might be useful poking into this part of forum, as I assume you have looked at problem of STL files getting out and being passed around without the designer knowing. 

I know that someone did ask you few years ago about printing one of my larger scale designs but you said It was not possible then.  I am not suggesting you would print someone else's design without permission, but it is something to consider as printers are now available and Shapeways do appear to be moving in direction of offering paid for downloads. 

[Modelu Chris]

1 hour ago, rue_d_etropal said:

Might be useful poking into this part of forum, as I assume you have looked at problem of STL files getting out and being passed around without the designer knowing. 

I know that someone did ask you few years ago about printing one of my larger scale designs but you said It was not possible then.  I am not suggesting you would print someone else's design without permission, but it is something to consider as printers are now available and Shapeways do appear to be moving in direction of offering paid for downloads. 

 

Thank you for your comment, we have looked into the problem. It is also something that we will be keeping a very close eye on. We are also in a very fortunate position that we have become more well known, hopefully this means if someone is indeed sharing the files it has more chance of getting back to us. 

[rue_d_etropal]

I think file sharing is more likely to happen with groups of lie minded people such as model railway groups.  Even if it is just a case of one person with a printer hho is obis asked to do prints for friends. That is still one less sale for the company who did the design to sell their own prints.  I don't think that can be stopped so price for STL files has to reflect this. Trouble is if price is too high then it is more likely STL files will be shared.Too low and the designer doesn't get a good return, so less designs out there. If the Shapeways option does take off, but for me only if they allow selective setting of options as I don't want every design being offered for down load, then their lowish price of 10 dollars split between designer and themselves is possibly a good compromise.  As it's for private use only, I would probably create special versions for anyone who wants to sell complete models, or sell them alongside something else they produce. Still a lot of trust required but it would be more under control. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by rue_d_etropal

[KeithHC]

Just 10 dollars that in no way in my mind does that recompense the designer. Ok I am very much in the early stages of learning 3D design. But it has taken me some four months just to get to a reasonable level on a model. Ok that may be just an hour or two for three or four days a week. I dread to think how many hours you have worked on your vast list of models. The thought of an individual buying an .stl and printing in minutes does seem a bit crazy.

 

Keith

[cctransuk]

20 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Just 10 dollars that in no way in my mind does that recompense the designer. Ok I am very much in the early stages of learning 3D design. But it has taken me some four months just to get to a reasonable level on a model. Ok that may be just an hour or two for three or four days a week. I dread to think how many hours you have worked on your vast list of models. The thought of an individual buying an .stl and printing in minutes does seem a bit crazy.

 

Keith

 

Unfortunately, any thoughts of achieving an hourly rate recompense - even spread over a considerably greater number of sales than are likely to be achieved, are unrealistic.

 

I offer the decal designs that I do for myself, ready printed, at a price that covers my printing and despatch costs, plus a small but useful margin. I have never bothered to calculate what the price would have to be to pay me a reasonable hourly rate for the time taken in the design process, because it would never generate any sales.

 

Work out a price that will cover your costs in distributing the designs, and a modest but useful bit of pocket-money for yourself, whilst still being low enough to attract customers - that's all that you can hope for.

 

CJI,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[MJI]

Well i am planning on tidying up my 2d cutting patterns for DMUs and putting them on thingiverse.

[Phil Parker]

37 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Unfortunately, any thoughts of achieving an hourly rate recompense - even spread over a considerably greater number of sales than are likely to be achieved, are unrealistic.

 

Then you have to accept that you aren't running a business, just a hobby subsidising other people's hobbies. That's fine if it's what you want to do, but you might as well randomly wander around shows handing out five-pound notes - the result is the same, and you'll have more free time.

 

I'm afraid that I get grumpy seeing people on Facebook claiming to be "running a business" when they refuse to consider their time has some value. The whole economy will eventually collapse if customers decide that they shouldn't pay for anything. In the professional writing and design worlds, you see a lot of people quite rightly fighting back against other businesses trying to get work for "exposure" - and good for them.

 

You might say "Well Phil, you are behind the times. No one wants to pay for anything. Get over it". My response is that if your life has so little value that you consider giving large chunks of it away to people who won't care about you when the next mug comes along, that's your problem. I believe that people who do work for someone else, deserve at least some recompense for it.

 

</rant>

[cctransuk]

50 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Then you have to accept that you aren't running a business, just a hobby subsidising other people's hobbies. That's fine if it's what you want to do, but you might as well randomly wander around shows handing out five-pound notes - the result is the same, and you'll have more free time.

 

I'm afraid that I get grumpy seeing people on Facebook claiming to be "running a business" when they refuse to consider their time has some value. The whole economy will eventually collapse if customers decide that they shouldn't pay for anything. In the professional writing and design worlds, you see a lot of people quite rightly fighting back against other businesses trying to get work for "exposure" - and good for them.

 

You might say "Well Phil, you are behind the times. No one wants to pay for anything. Get over it". My response is that if your life has so little value that you consider giving large chunks of it away to people who won't care about you when the next mug comes along, that's your problem. I believe that people who do work for someone else, deserve at least some recompense for it.

 

</rant>

 

A very cynical and uninformed appraisal of what I do with my own time.

 

Firstly, I am retired, and have no pressing need of a secondary income.

 

Secondly, I make no pretentions to run a business - where did you get that idea?

 

Thirdly, most of my transfer range comprises designs which I have undertaken for my own purposes - though I do respond to requests from, funnily enough, 3D and etched kit designers to produce transfers, in order to assist downloaders / purchasers of their designs / products.

 

My prices cover my costs, and provide a small but welcome income - which principally covers my railway modelling purchases.

 

Let's be clear - I could not make a living from my transfer activities; but then that has never been my intention.

 

You deride me for under-charging for my output; so what is your view of people, such as a very good friend of mine, who puts his superb 3D wagon designs on Thingiverse, for FREE download?

 

You seem to be incapable of seeing the value of anything, unless you have to pay through the nose for it - you have my sympathy.

 

As for being a 'mug', I enjoy what I do - especially when it is clearly appreciated by my 'customers'. What I do with my time, and what I charge for my output, is my own business.

 

I do not undercut more commercial enterprises, and fellow modellers are able to benefit from my skills and equipment.

 

I really think that you might be much happier if you were to review your personal values, and avoided criticising others' lifestyle choices.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

Edited August 4, 2023 by cctransuk

[Phil Parker]

32 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

A very cynical and uninformed appraisal of what I do with my own time.

 

Firstly, I am retired, and have no pressing need of a secondary income.

 

Secondly, I make no pretentions to run a business - where did you get that idea?

 

Thirdly, most of my transfer range comprises designs which I have undertaken for my own purposes - though I do respond to requests from, funnily enough, 3D and etched kit designers to produce transfers, in order to assist downloaders / purchasers of their designs / products.

 

My prices cover my costs, and provide a small but welcome income - which principally covers my railway modelling purchases.

 

Let's be clear - I could not make a living from my transfer activities; but then that has never been my intention.

 

You deride me for under-charging for my output; so what is your view of people, such as a very good friend of mine, who puts his superb 3D wagon designs on Thingiverse, for FREE download?

 

You seem to be incapable of seeing the value of anything, unless you have to pay through the nose for it - you have my sympathy.

 

As for being a 'mug', I enjoy what I do - especially when it is clearly appreciated by my 'customers'. What I do with my time, and what I charge for my output, is my own business.

 

I do not undercut more commercial enterprises, and fellow modellers are able to benefit from my skills and equipment.

 

I really think that you might be much happier if you were to review your personal values, and avoided criticising others' lifestyle choices.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

I was making a more general point - not everything is about you.

 

However, I stick to my guns on the fundamental point that people who do work for others deserve to get paid. If you want to give all your work away free, that's up to you, but don't (as many people do) expect everyone to do it, or worse, think you (that's not you personally, for the avoidance of doubt) decide that because you can download files and given them away without the file creators approval. That's something you see all the time, and I know people who have had to chase the culprits through the courts.

 

If this offends you, well, that's your problem. I, and many others, can't afford to work for free, and when I get to the checkout at Tesco, "I put some files on Thingyverse" won't cut any ice. They want money. The trend towards expecting people in knowledge and creative industries to work without payment isn't one I, or many others, welcome. I could give everything I do away, for free. But I value my time, and need to eat. I do some stuff for free, but the best is saved for people who pay me. They expect nothing less.

 

To turn it around - if someone spends several days putting together an STL file, why is it wrong for them to expect to be paid for it?

 

 

[MJI]

The only issue I can see here is of making money off other peoples donations.

 

Lets say I started selling completed LMS hoppers (NOT the serpentine pool)

 

Printing

Assembling

Wheels

Painting

Transfers

 

I would have two peoples generosity being stretched here, the STL supplier and the transfer chap.

 

It would be a lot of work for CCT so they would get peed off, and it would be very unfair on IM.

 

However I have printed some for my use only, I am happy to use the STLs but I will need specific transfers as they are part of a known pool.

 

As I am quite a decent person I would not consider doing it for profit. Unless I could come to an agreement with the data suppliers.

 

To be honest there would be no profit in it for me anyway so don't ask.

 

[SteveM666]

I am very much with @cctransuk on this one. I have a small enterprise where I occasionally undertake painting commissions, both weathering and full repaint. I am very aware that the likes of TMC undertake weathering and publish an associated price list for their services based on their system of painting numerous models to get economies of scale.

I also fully appreciate that I could never compete on price for a one off model priced at an hourly rate that would result in a paint job of hundreds of pounds. Accordingly I price my work to be competitive (or I would get no business) and providing I get something out of it for myself (and I include enjoyment and gaining experience in that equation) then I am happy.

Is it a business? Yes, but not a profitable one.

[Phil Parker]

49 minutes ago, SteveM666 said:

I am very much with @cctransuk on this one. I have a small enterprise where I occasionally undertake painting commissions, both weathering and full repaint. I am very aware that the likes of TMC undertake weathering and publish an associated price list for their services based on their system of painting numerous models to get economies of scale.

I also fully appreciate that I could never compete on price for a one off model priced at an hourly rate that would result in a paint job of hundreds of pounds. Accordingly I price my work to be competitive (or I would get no business) and providing I get something out of it for myself (and I include enjoyment and gaining experience in that equation) then I am happy.

Is it a business? Yes, but not a profitable one.

 

But then the sensible thing would be for TMC to sack the person currently weathering stuff, and employ you as a self-employed contractor on the basis that you'll work for considerably less than minimum wage. That is until someone else comes along who will work for even less. From a customer's point of view, this would be a good thing, but perhaps not so much for the person doing the work. I don't know what the solution to this is.

 

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

The only issue I can see here is of making money off other peoples donations.

 

Lets say I started selling completed LMS hoppers (NOT the serpentine pool)

 

Printing

Assembling

Wheels

Painting

Transfers

 

I would have two peoples generosity being stretched here, the STL supplier and the transfer chap.

 

It would be a lot of work for CCT so they would get peed off, and it would be very unfair on IM.

 

However I have printed some for my use only, I am happy to use the STLs but I will need specific transfers as they are part of a known pool.

 

As I am quite a decent person I would not consider doing it for profit. Unless I could come to an agreement with the data suppliers.

 

To be honest there would be no profit in it for me anyway so don't ask.

 

 

Just to be clear, my friend uploads his files to Thingiverse, in the knowledge that they might be used for profit - he has no objection to this.

 

He simply enjoys the design process.

 

I can see no problem with this.

 

CJI.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

But then the sensible thing would be for TMC to sack the person currently weathering stuff, and employ you as a self-employed contractor on the basis that you'll work for considerably less than minimum wage. That is until someone else comes along who will work for even less. From a customer's point of view, this would be a good thing, but perhaps not so much for the person doing the work. I don't know what the solution to this is.

 

 

At the end of the day, we live in a (sort of) free country. If people wish to, and are able to, provide services and goods at commercially impractical cost, they are perfectly at liberty to do so.

 

It may get up certain people's nose - but tough!

 

CJI.

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I was making a more general point - not everything is about you.

 

However, I stick to my guns on the fundamental point that people who do work for others deserve to get paid. If you want to give all your work away free, that's up to you, but don't (as many people do) expect everyone to do it, or worse, think you (that's not you personally, for the avoidance of doubt) decide that because you can download files and given them away without the file creators approval. That's something you see all the time, and I know people who have had to chase the culprits through the courts.

 

If this offends you, well, that's your problem. I, and many others, can't afford to work for free, and when I get to the checkout at Tesco, "I put some files on Thingyverse" won't cut any ice. They want money. The trend towards expecting people in knowledge and creative industries to work without payment isn't one I, or many others, welcome. I could give everything I do away, for free. But I value my time, and need to eat. I do some stuff for free, but the best is saved for people who pay me. They expect nothing less.

 

To turn it around - if someone spends several days putting together an STL file, why is it wrong for them to expect to be paid for it?

 

 

 

Phil,

 

I think that I may be forgiven for taking personally an insulting post, made in response to my own post. Disclaiming the personal aspect now is invidious, but adding a further insult is, frankly, pathetic!

 

No-one is asking you, or anyone else, to work for nothing. Please explain how my transfer offering, or any other offering from retired persons, adversely affects anyone who relies upon their commercial operations for a living.

 

If I did not offer my range of in excess of two hundred transfer sheets at cost plus a modest profit, those transfers would simply be unavailable. The limited sales of obscure subjects that I make are not profitable enough to support a commercial operation.

 

So - get used to it - we retired modellers will continue to enjoy producing items that other modellers find useful - at prices that are affordable.

 

...... and we are NOT damaging other businesses.

 

CJI.