Hornby stock stolen

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

The point is, the original image is allegedly of an email Hornby sent out to its customers informing them of the issue. However, no one seems to have received this - all that can be found is this image circulated on social media.

 

I have my doubts that this actually happened, but I'm at a loss as to why someone would have faked this. Perhaps a joke about delays to stock being delivered?

Two different things at work here possibly.  If we assume that the item posted by the OP was genuine (yes, it could well have been - just as easily as faked) then someone in the Hornby marketing side was doing no more than keeping potential customers aware of a possible problem and good of them to be frank about something like that.   And it wouldn't be the first time stuff has been stolen in transit although when it happened to DJM he didn't even know  that it had happened until the stuff was being sold.   Don't forget that models don't always arrive in full container loads but come through what used to called groupage so pass through many more hands before they reach the warehouse.

 

But then someone from another side of the company sees it after they have already posted a profit warning and thinks 'what could news like that do to confidence in our forecasts and our share price?' so gets it removed as quickly as they can.  And odd to remark but there have been some recent dips in the share price although obviously that could be for very different reasons.

 

So we are very unlikely to ever know if it was a genuine post from Hornby or if it was a fake because confirmation one way or the other could be  dependent on the view someone in the company takes of the two factors I have mentioned above.  But considering the second one (confidence) surely it would be in Hornby's better interest to point out that it was a fake rather than leave the matter lying around?

[spamcan61]

I've taken the radical step of emailing Hornby to try and establish whether this is fake news or not!

[APOLLO]

deleted

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by APOLLO

[spamcan61]

Unfortunately Hornby have confirmed the information is genuine.

[Ouroborus]

The story i heard wasn't so much that stock *had* been stolen, but that it *may* have been stolen and was being investigated.

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Unfortunately Hornby have confirmed the information is genuine.

Thanks for that - at least we now know that we aren't talking about hot auir.

 

 I hope for Hornby's sake that is is something readily noticeable, such as TT120, if/when it appears on the black market.  and maybe we should direct our energies to keeping an eye for any Hornby items from unusual sources or on Ebay but nowhere else.  Probably better to rely on the model railway community to run the stuff to earth than it is to rely on the police.

[HExpressD]

14 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

The story i heard wasn't so much that stock *had* been stolen, but that it *may* have been stolen and was being investigated.

Very much looks like from the Hornby statement that it *has* been stolen. I'd assume they know

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Very much looks like from the Hornby statement that it *has* been stolen. I'd assume they know

The email I received from Hornby does specifically state ' a number of items stolen from a container'

[Gridiron]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

The email I received from Hornby does specifically state ' a number of items stolen from a container'

Readers should be aware that even if this was a full container load, the chances are that unlike in the UK it would have been loaded on the Chinese container terminal especially if the stock has originated from several suppliers. Unless your actually involved in handling a shipment in the UK, it's almost impossible to know the contents of any full container in advance without insider knowledge. The theft from containers in the UK tend to happen when hauliers pick up a container from the UK port at night ready for  an early delivery the following morning and the truck stops over at an insecure location. Unfortunately, the location of some delivery points mean some HGV drivers tend to risk overnight parking at unsecure locations with the inevitable result of vehicles being attacked.     

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

The email I received from Hornby does specifically state ' a number of items stolen from a container'

 

1 hour ago, Gridiron said:

Readers should be aware that even if this was a full container load, the chances are that unlike in the UK it would have been loaded on the Chinese container terminal especially if the stock has originated from several suppliers. Unless your actually involved in handling a shipment in the UK, it's almost impossible to know the contents of any full container in advance without insider knowledge. The theft from containers in the UK tend to happen when hauliers pick up a container from the UK port at night ready for  an early delivery the following morning and the truck stops over at an insecure location. Unfortunately, the location of some delivery points mean some HGV drivers tend to risk overnight parking at unsecure locations with the inevitable result of vehicles being attacked.     

Going off comments on another thread, perhaps Bachmann UK targetted the trailer and took the items - we can expect to see them turn up under Efe branding in due course. 🤣 (smiley/laugh added so people don't take this seriously).

[Ravenser]

2 hours ago, Gridiron said:

Readers should be aware that even if this was a full container load, the chances are that unlike in the UK it would have been loaded on the Chinese container terminal especially if the stock has originated from several suppliers. Unless your actually involved in handling a shipment in the UK, it's almost impossible to know the contents of any full container in advance without insider knowledge. The theft from containers in the UK tend to happen when hauliers pick up a container from the UK port at night ready for  an early delivery the following morning and the truck stops over at an insecure location. Unfortunately, the location of some delivery points mean some HGV drivers tend to risk overnight parking at unsecure locations with the inevitable result of vehicles being attacked.     

 

That said, given that Hornby have circulated a message here, that seems to imply they think the missing goods may be here, not in China.

 

We can't be certain of what's going on without seeing the file and the paperwork - and obviously we never will.

 

But reference to a container sounds like an FCL move (even if it's LCL/FCL "buyers consolidation" as you suggest). Clearly it's out-turned short when compared to the bill of lading/commercial invoice. If the box has turned up at the warehouse this end with the bolt-seals missing , you might suspect that something has happened in the UK. I would have hoped the haulier's driver might have checked the bolt-seals are intact when picking up the box at the terminal, but I'm not betting my life on it.

 

if it's LCL /LCL through a grouper then there are questions about whether the missing goods have been left behind in either the origin CFS or the grouper's devanning warehouse here, or nicked off a curtainsider during final delivery or whatever

[woodenhead]

22 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

if it's LCL /LCL through a grouper then there are questions about whether the missing goods have been left behind in either the origin CFS or the grouper's devanning warehouse here, or nicked off a curtainsider during final delivery or whatever

So it could simply be a batch of brown cardboard boxes on a warehouse shelf somewhere unbeknownst to the recipient or Hornby i.e. lost not stolen.

[Ravenser]

5 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

So it could simply be a batch of brown cardboard boxes on a warehouse shelf somewhere unbeknownst to the recipient or Hornby i.e. lost not stolen.

 

If they've sent out a message like that , and said it's stolen in a subsequent clarification, it implies they have reasons to think its been stolen. You'd make the checks at both ends first before sending out a message externally

 

We do not know this moved consol. The file and the paperwork will show you in 2 seconds , but for what it's worth the reported wording "missing from a container" tends to imply  a full load to me

 

What we can say is :

- It's out-turned short

- Nobody can find the missing stuff

- Hornby seem to think the missing items may be in circulation in the UK , so keep your eyes peeled

 

Beyond that we're guessing , without sight of the paperwork

[Porcy Mane]

So should I be keeping an eye out for yet another announcement of a delay to the imminent spring arrival of the 2MT?  Maybe someone was so desperate for one, they took matters into their own hands?

 

Above said totally in jest.  😶  Hoping this problem doesn't impact on Hornby too much.

 

 

[Ouroborus]

6 hours ago, HExpressD said:

Very much looks like from the Hornby statement that it *has* been stolen. I'd assume they know

 

Well, its like this.  You order a model train from Hattons.  It comes in the post but the packaging is open.  Everything looks in place, but can you be sure until you've gone through everything you're expecting?  And when you have, has it been pinched, lost or never packed in the first place?

[Drifter]

17 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

Well, its like this.  You order a model train from Hattons.  It comes in the post but the packaging is open.  Everything looks in place, but can you be sure until you've gone through everything you're expecting?  And when you have, has it been pinched, lost or never packed in the first place?

Think we can safely presume that Hornby’s delivery would have been in a bigger box! If Hornby had been missing the detailing pack on a loco, don’t think the Police would be investigating! 

l have had sight of the Hornby email and it is the same as the OP’s. 

 

This type of crime happens on a regular basis.

 

Waiting for the Conspiracy Theory that this year is the 60th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery. Wonder who will be the first to post that a Tier 2 Retailer has more than ten in stock?
 

Let’s just all keep a  wary eye in the marketplace. We are more likely than anyone or any organisation to spot the unusual..

[Gridiron]

I seem to recall in one of the TV programs there was some footage of the Margate warehouse and either loading ramps which would be used unloading the container, or a proper unloading bay with a container on site. There was also a comment in last weeks programme about filling a forty foot container of the Airfix kits, so I would be very surprised if Hornby shipped their individual brand products from China as less than container loads (LCL) as I guess their volumes across all brands would probably justify regular buyers consolidation at least. Nevertheless, no matter what method of shipment is used it's very likely the supplier would pack the goods into their retail packaging into cartons and then into outer cartons  and deliver this to the export warehouse or terminal.  Very few Chinese suppliers palletise and shrink wrap loose cartons, especially if the shipment is to be loaded with other shipments as this allows the cartons to be handball loaded into a container and the space inside the container maximised, and thus reducing the unit cost of the shipping. Whilst freight rates have now largely returned to precovid levels in this market, the market remains highly competitive and nobody wants to pay more than they should. 

 

The problem is that's its very difficult to verify, even with photographs, and CCTV  which some operators use,  to very each outer carton is loaded and similarly if the shipment moves as LCL when it's devanned at the UK depot. Here the warehouse will usually count the individual cartons as they are devanned and loaded on pallets for convenience of the warehouse operator. The problem this causes is that whilst any discrepancies may be noted, it's likely this will be restricted to phrases like, crushed, wet, contents exposed and there will be no count of the inner cartons which could by this time be partially empty anyway. Any damaged cartons will usually be taped up and placed in the middle of pallet and moved to the warehouse location awaiting collection. The next problem is that when the driver collects the shipment, he or she will be told the shipment is on pallets but will probably not allowed to fully inspect the pallets which by now have been shrunked wrapped to prevent further damage. However, I have seen shipments of several hundred cartons loaded on pallets up to 2mtrs high which then inevitably fall over the trailer during the delivery leaving the shipment potentially further exposed to pilferage or damage.

 

 

[HExpressD]

14 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

 

Well, its like this.  You order a model train from Hattons.  It comes in the post but the packaging is open.  Everything looks in place, but can you be sure until you've gone through everything you're expecting?  And when you have, has it been pinched, lost or never packed in the first place?

Maybe, but given police involvement I'd imagine it's less boxes and brown tape and more angle grinders and a Transit van*

 

*other makes are available

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

That said, given that Hornby have circulated a message here, that seems to imply they think the missing goods may be here, not in China.

 

We can't be certain of what's going on without seeing the file and the paperwork - and obviously we never will.

 

But reference to a container sounds like an FCL move (even if it's LCL/FCL "buyers consolidation" as you suggest). Clearly it's out-turned short when compared to the bill of lading/commercial invoice. If the box has turned up at the warehouse this end with the bolt-seals missing , you might suspect that something has happened in the UK. I would have hoped the haulier's driver might have checked the bolt-seals are intact when picking up the box at the terminal, but I'm not betting my life on it.

 

if it's LCL /LCL through a grouper then there are questions about whether the missing goods have been left behind in either the origin CFS or the grouper's devanning warehouse here, or nicked off a curtainsider during final delivery or whatever

It could but it wouldn't be the first time that model railway items coming into the UK via groupage have been stolen in the UK.  I suspect that it might be via a different fromthe previous incident as I believe Hornby normally ship in via Thamesport although I don't know if that would also include groupage traffic.?

 

But however it was pinched the message seems to be that Hornby believe the stuff is in Britain so their best 'detectives' are the railway modelling community.  And its up to us to look out for stuff coming from unusual sources especially if it isn't yet available from either Hornby direct or 'normal' retailers.

[Legend]

27 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It could but it wouldn't be the first time that model railway items coming into the UK via groupage have been stolen in the UK.  I suspect that it might be via a different fromthe previous incident as I believe Hornby normally ship in via Thamesport although I don't know if that would also include groupage traffic.?

 

But however it was pinched the message seems to be that Hornby believe the stuff is in Britain so their best 'detectives' are the railway modelling community.  And its up to us to look out for stuff coming from unusual sources especially if it isn't yet available from either Hornby direct or 'normal' retailers.

 

If they told us what it was then they'd have all RMWeb sleuthing unusual outlets and might find it quicker . 

[Ravenser]

54 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It could but it wouldn't be the first time that model railway items coming into the UK via groupage have been stolen in the UK.  I suspect that it might be via a different fromthe previous incident as I believe Hornby normally ship in via Thamesport although I don't know if that would also include groupage traffic.?

 

But however it was pinched the message seems to be that Hornby believe the stuff is in Britain so their best 'detectives' are the railway modelling community.  And its up to us to look out for stuff coming from unusual sources especially if it isn't yet available from either Hornby direct or 'normal' retailers.

 

Consol boxes will come on the same ships as any other containers, into Felixstowe, Southampton or London Gateway (in order of importance). I would expect import consol boxes to devan in the Ipswich/Felixstowe area, the Southampton/Eastleigh area , and probably in Basildon /Purfleet /Dartford for any Gateway shipments 

 

I'm aware Hornby cartons are marked "via Thamesport", but the shipper's marks and numbers on the cartons aren't definitive as to the routing taken by the container- least of all when the consignee controls the routing, which I'm reasonably confident will be the case here

 

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

If they told us what it was then they'd have all RMWeb sleuthing unusual outlets and might find it quicker . 

 

And places that did have them in stock might 1) panic they get accused and 2) inflate the prices.

 

That's assuming it wasn't an entire run that has been stolen.

[Gridiron]

10 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Consol boxes will come on the same ships as any other containers, into Felixstowe, Southampton or London Gateway (in order of importance). I would expect import consol boxes to devan in the Ipswich/Felixstowe area, the Southampton/Eastleigh area , and probably in Basildon /Purfleet /Dartford for any Gateway shipments 

 

I'm aware Hornby cartons are marked "via Thamesport", but the shipper's marks and numbers on the cartons aren't definitive as to the routing taken by the container- least of all when the consignee controls the routing, which I'm reasonably confident will be the case here

 

 

Spot on, Thamesport has not been used by any of lines from China for many years, apart from an ill fated couple of voyages of an Evergreen feeder during Covid, for one thing the ships are now to big to access the terminal. 

 

Assuming the original message from Hornby is a true statement of the facts in every detail, this looks like the container was due to be delivered to the Hornby warehouse, which would not normally happen if the shipment had been shipped as LCL. On this basis we can only assume the shipment was a FCL. This  would suggest the container seal was broken after it left the port of arrival as it's normally checked at this point and would explain the police involvement, because the driver/owner of the vehicle would normally report  such a discrepancy or an attack on the vehicle to protect their liability under their insurance as their insurers would require a crime number to cover any claim. I agree it, would be helpful if Hornby provided details of the missing goods and the crime number, and whilst it might be too late to fully recover the stolen goods, it might eventually lead to preventing further thefts to the wider market.    

[jjb1970]

I think Thamesport container terminal is sometimes mixed up with London Gateway. London Gateway handles ultra-large container ships, Thamesport is more about regional traffic.

[JSpencer]

On 19/02/2023 at 11:28, The Stationmaster said:

.   And it wouldn't be the first time stuff has been stolen in transit although when it happened to DJM he didn't even know  that it had happened until the stuff was being sold.  

 

Wow! In all companies I worked for from humble small shops to giant internationals, it is normally policy to count the goods coming in, going out and what is sitting on the shelves.

Mind you I am not surprised.