Original etched brass kits

[doilum]

Can anyone remember who introduced etched brass kits to the hobby?

I recall buying a Kemilway chassis kit in the early 1980s, but I don't think that it was the first..Just curious.

[hayfield]

 

My Early memories were of Mallard (Blacksmith) making etched kits, but I think early etched kits/parts were called Photo engraved, Trevor Charlton comes to mind

[JeffP]

I can remember 4mm scale kits in a mixture of white metal and what was described as photo etched brass., and also photo etched nickel silver valve gear.

DJH being an early user in their Peppercorn A1.

I thought Kemilway was pre-80's?

Their stuff, especially valve gear, was way ahead of the competition.

[Nicktoix]

26 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

My Early memories were of Mallard (Blacksmith) making etched kits, but I think early etched kits/parts were called Photo engraved, Trevor Charlton comes to mind

Trevor Charlton did coach sides and ends etched in zinc using process from printing industry.  They were certainly not kits but made up very well with beautifully smooth surface.

They were made to order from a huge list. I still have a couple unmade.

Nick

[djparkins]

34 minutes ago, doilum said:

Can anyone remember who introduced etched brass kits to the hobby?

I recall buying a Kemilway chassis kit in the early 1980s, but I don't think that it was the first..Just curious.

 

George Allan Models, which later became Kemilway introduced an etched footbridge kit in [I believe] 1971 and a kit for a kind of three bay awning for a goods/parcels depot. I was working in my father's model shop when we got them in and I'd never seen anything like it.

 

These are often referred to as being the first etched kits produced but I'm sure others might know of something earlier. I built both of the above and remember thinking how it would change the hobby. I took to them like a duck to water and could instantly see the possibilites for locomotives and rolling stock - and indeed, it wasn't that long before Kemilway/George Allan brought out their GWR Siphon kit.

 

I found that time in the hobby very exciting, and when the 7mm Mallard and Metalmodels kits came out things really started to get interesting to me. I should also mention the superb Colin Waite GWR kits of that period. By that time I was a full time commission builder and used to be so pleased if I got a Colin Waite kit to build for a customer as I knew everything fitted so well. The Trever Charlton coach sides and ends referred to above were just surface detail on zinc, and you had to cut out all the window apertures. Can you imagine anyone doing that today?!

 

I remember showing the Late Adrian Swain of ABS Models a Metalmodels Siphon F kit and telling him it would change kit design in the future. Of course Adrian just scoffed!

 

David Parkins,

MMP/43-two-1/Classic Commercials etc.

www.djparkins.com

[Bucoops]

Kemilway referred to it as "chemically milled" as above I think the footbridge must have been one of the first, if not the first. I have a Kemilway coach kit dated 1977 which is apart from more economic layout on the sheet is comparable to "modern" kits in the quality.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Bucoops

[ianmaccormac]

I bought some Mallard LBSCR Balloon carriage kits before 1972 from Ray Rippons in Southend which was when I moved from there to Uckfield. Good kits that made up and ran well. Cheers, Ian now in Blackpool

[Barclay]

Sayer Chaplin were the first I believe. Circa 1950.

[djparkins]

8 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Sayer Chaplin were the first I believe. Circa 1950.

Ah l think l recall someone mentioning these and had completely forgotten. Can you post a photo of the contents? That would be really interesting. Thanks

[Barclay]

Here's what I have. There are a few bits missing. Etching is only half way through so you have to cut the parts out, not much easier than scratch building I think! I need to build it though, it's been waiting more than 70 years. Apologies for it being upside down I struggle with this when using the phone.

 

[hmrspaul]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Kemilway referred to it as "chemically milled" as above I think the footbridge must have been one of the first, if not the first. I have a Kemilway coach kit dated 1977 which is apart from more economic layout on the sheet is comparable to "modern" kits in the quality.

The NRM used to display a Kemilway Footbridge kit as the first etched kit and it has always been my understanding that George Allen introduced this product. He soon joined with the late Tony Dyer and John Senior of Mopok to develop the Kemilway range. Tony and John were aware of chemical etching earlier as I remember a member of the Staines MRS discussing this process, even to the suggestion the Club should do some. He was a (the?) ground estate engineer at Heathrow but died very soon after that discussion (very prematurely). Perhaps Chris Leigh remembers this more clearly than me. 

 

Their involvement was cut short by financial over extension into a wholesaling project brought down by one of this countries all too frequent financial depressions. John became a successful transport publisher, Tony went back to being an electrician and weekend drummer and later retired to the Lake District. As I've mentioned before Adrian Swain never forgave Tony and John for getting him to go full time, produce so much whitemetal for their kits, which he then had to use up on his own range of BR coach kits using techniques similar to Mopok. 

 

Paul

[Bucoops]

I had a thought - the etching process is very similar to PCB manufacture (or was, think it's different now with the multi layers and so on.

This reckons 1930s with the invention of the photosensitive bit in the 1800s! Presumably for photography.

 

https://www.cambridge-circuit.co.uk/blog/2013/09/26/printed-circuit-boards-a-brief-history/

 

So it was a relatively mature process by the time it was used for model making.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Bucoops

[Bucoops]

32 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Sayer Chaplin were the first I believe. Circa 1950.

 

Impressive!

[Nicktoix]

6 hours ago, djparkins said:

 

George Allan Models, which later became Kemilway introduced an etched footbridge kit in [I believe] 1971 and a kit for a kind of three bay awning for a goods/parcels depot. I was working in my father's model shop when we got them in and I'd never seen anything like it.

 

These are often referred to as being the first etched kits produced but I'm sure others might know of something earlier. I built both of the above and remember thinking how it would change the hobby. I took to them like a duck to water and could instantly see the possibilites for locomotives and rolling stock - and indeed, it wasn't that long before Kemilway/George Allan brought out their GWR Siphon kit.

 

I found that time in the hobby very exciting, and when the 7mm Mallard and Metalmodels kits came out things really started to get interesting to me. I should also mention the superb Colin Waite GWR kits of that period. By that time I was a full time commission builder and used to be so pleased if I got a Colin Waite kit to build for a customer as I knew everything fitted so well. The Trever Charlton coach sides and ends referred to above were just surface detail on zinc, and you had to cut out all the window apertures. Can you imagine anyone doing that today?!

 

I remember showing the Late Adrian Swain of ABS Models a Metalmodels Siphon F kit and telling him it would change kit design in the future. Of course Adrian just scoffed!

 

David Parkins,

MMP/43-two-1/Classic Commercials etc.

www.djparkins.com

Later Trevor Charlton sides had the windows cut out along with the drop lights but that was it. They also had an evil coating on the inside which was a pig to remove. You had to remove some if you wanted to solder the together.  Soldering  zinc is another experience I don't want to repeat.

Nick

Edited February 14, 2023 by Nicktoix
spilong

[djparkins]

16 minutes ago, Nicktoix said:

Later Trevor Charlton sides had the windows cut out along with the drop lights but that was it. They also had an evil coating on the inside which was a pig to remove. You had to remove some if you wanted to solder the together.  Soldering  zinc is another experience I don't want to repeat.

Nick

 

This is developing into a real trip down Memory Lane! Yes I remember that green coating all too well. I had to build two rakes of Cambrian stock from those TC sides. I never thought that the window cutting, drilling of door handle/handrail locations, and the removal of that coating would end, and I could actually begin any real construction work and earn some money! And to think there are still modellers who cannot handle today's 21st century etched kits! They don't know they are born.

 

Thanks to Barclay for the pics of the Sayer 'kit'. It looks utterly horrendous. So possibly we can still say then that the first fully etched kits as we know them today were the George Allan ones!

[Nicktoix]

A set of parts by TC for a Midland clerestory compo.

Nick

[djparkins]

52 minutes ago, Nicktoix said:

A set of parts by TC for a Midland clerestory compo.

Nick

 

I bet fretting out those clerestory side panels was fun!

[doilum]

A wonderful response. I bought the Kemilway unbuilt but Preloved in the early 80s no and sold it on still unbuilt a few years later. Having built the mostly whitemetal Sevenscale pug and Piercy J72 I think my first fully etched brass kit was the Slater's Manning Wardle K class in the late 80s.

[chris p bacon]

10 hours ago, djparkins said:

 

George Allan Models, which later became Kemilway introduced an etched footbridge kit in [I believe] 1971 and a kit for a kind of three bay awning for a goods/parcels depot. I was working in my father's model shop when we got them in and I'd never seen anything like it.

 

That is most likely the Glazed awning/roof from Potton & Sandy Stations which was produced as a 3 bay. I have one of the kits tucked away somewhere, but produced my own etches as there were actually 5 bays on the prototype.

 

[jwealleans]

Does anyone recall this chap?   Tony Wright gave me these etches which could be built as two 6 wheelers or an (inaccurate) twin set.  There was another etch which included a full brake but I've never seen one.

 

 

I eventually built it and added a third carriage from an almost equally old etch to make a prototypical triplet which we run on Grantham:

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by jwealleans

[MarkC]

I built a MPD 3F in the late 70s, followed by their 1F tank. They were mostly etched parts, and nice models.

 

Mark

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 14/02/2023 at 16:39, djparkins said:

 

This is developing into a real trip down Memory Lane! Yes I remember that green coating all too well. I had to build two rakes of Cambrian stock from those TC sides. I never thought that the window cutting, drilling of door handle/handrail locations, and the removal of that coating would end, and I could actually begin any real construction work and earn some money! And to think there are still modellers who cannot handle today's 21st century etched kits! They don't know they are born.

 

Thanks to Barclay for the pics of the Sayer 'kit'. It looks utterly horrendous. So possibly we can still say then that the first fully etched kits as we know them today were the George Allan ones!

Philip Millard, the LNWR carriages guru, also did a range of etched zinc carriage sides/ends (Red Rose Models?) at about the same time as Trevor Charlton. They did need the windows and droplights cutting out.

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 14/02/2023 at 15:54, Bucoops said:

I had a thought - the etching process is very similar to PCB manufacture (or was, think it's different now with the multi layers and so on.

This reckons 1930s with the invention of the photosensitive bit in the 1800s! Presumably for photography.

 

https://www.cambridge-circuit.co.uk/blog/2013/09/26/printed-circuit-boards-a-brief-history/

 

So it was a relatively mature process by the time it was used for model making.

I think early PCB products were single sided. When did "double sided" photo etching (also referred to chemical milling) as we know it become commonplace?

[melmerby]

There is also a process called "electro erosion".

I visited an electro erosion company whilst doing my PO/BT job and assumed it was the same or similar to etching but was very quickly corrected.

The 'etching' is done by electric current but the result was similar.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I think early PCB products were single sided. When did "double sided" photo etching (also referred to chemical milling) as we know it become commonplace?

A good question - a quick google hasn't found much (apart from there is evidence of etching as a process during Cleopatra's time!) but I would assume as soon as someone realised it would be useful - registration is the hard part but with care not *that* hard for a basic PCB.