Märklin announces Flying Scotsman in H0

[Nova Scotian]

Something to run next to your Rivarossi Royal Scot HO - and a lovely model for the time it was! I have my eye on one on ebay, but not at the price asked!

 

 

[woodenhead]

22 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Another view of the rather quirky Marklin Warship, which was pretty close to 00 in size. 

And people claim that European HO is better than UK OO 🤣

 

Maybe generally, but sometimes they can create utter howlers.

[wairoa]

This is great news. I hope this will not be the last HO locomotive Trix/Marklin manufacturer. I will definitely be saving up for one of these.

[maico]

The last British outline marketed by Marklin might be the Hogwarts express listed in the 2003 and 2005 catalogues.

It may have been made by Hornby?

You can download it and a good selection of older Marklin catalogues in pdf form here

 

https://www.dolfmeister.com/extras/download/

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by maico

[Halvarras]

On 24/02/2023 at 11:37, maico said:

So have Marklin, it was their worst ever model

 

 

 

I remember seeing one of these on sale in a model shop in Falmouth, Cornwall, in the late 1960s - Barham's, just around the corner from the pier used by the St Mawes ferry. Not sure I've seen one since!

Interesting that at least one body securing screw is located in an engine exhaust - which would have been OK-ish if they hadn't selected the only Swindon-built Warship which didn't have central exhaust ports! However such a detail hardly matters when looking at the rest of it..........🤨!

Let's be kind to it on one point though - to date it would appear to be the only OO/HO D800 Warship model fitted with wire cab door handrails. There, it wasn't so bad after all, was it?! 😜

Edited February 26, 2023 by Halvarras
Had to check the Fleischmann Warship's handrails......nah, moulded on!

[DCB]

A fitting successor to the earlier Trix Scotsman.   They always managed to spoil them, this one looks like they bodged a spare German chimney on instead of making an accurate replica. Previously Trix ruined the 00 version by putting a traction tyre on a driving wheel and then did a downgrade to tender drive. I had both and was very disappointed.  Its great they are doing a 3 rail version.  there must be literally tens of people using 3 rail H0 in the UK.  At least it looks like the width is reasonable, which is  where many H0 locos fall down, and the valve gear looks nice unlike the ugly Hornby TT120 version...

[jjb1970]

Three rail (stud) AC HO is hugely popular in parts of Europe, in Germany it's as mainstream as two rail DC.

 

This is almost certainly intended as a curio for people in the rest of Europe and perhaps North America and other markets who would like a model of Flying Scotsman.

 

Any UK sales will be a bonus. Marlin/Trix aren't dumb. They will know that UK outline HO is a micro-niche and that UK outline customers are overwhelmingly OO.

 

Who knows, maybe if they do get a lot of UK demand they might consider more British outline. Several companies make the 66 in HO and bits of rolling stock.

[jjb1970]

16 hours ago, 69843 said:

Actually, the 1994 Precision Scale Models A3 model pipped even the TT-120 A3 to that post by a good 29 years. Fully detailed and RTR, to HO scale, RP25-88 profile wheels, even a working centre crank axle and connecting rod. Available in Australian tour condition (limited edition of 150), as 60103 in pretty much this condition (25) or the following (only 5 of each):
60044 Melton BR lined green, ex-GNR tender, double chimney, deflectors
60049 Galtee More BR lined green, ex-GNR tender, double chimney, deflectors
60065 Knight of Thistle BR lined green, ex-GNR tender, single chimney
60096 Papyrus BR lined green, ex-GNR tender, double chimney
60110 Robert the Devil BR lined green, ex-GNR tender, single chimney

I have attached a couple of photos of my personal Australian condition one (build 007/150) next to a Hornby R2687 which is modelled in the same condition. The eagle-eyed will even note the deflector under the cab for the extra chime whistle it carried whilst out here. And yes-I'd love to see the Märklin model done in both USA and Australian tour conditions in future releases.

 

Many years ago I saw this one on sale in the Tenshodo evergreen shop in Ginza, Tokyo. I was quite tempted but bought a JRF EF200 by Musashino instead.

[sncf231e]

7 hours ago, maico said:

The last British outline marketed by Marklin might be the Hogwarts express listed in the 2003 and 2005 catalogues.

 

Märklin  has quite a history of making British outline trains, like this Schools class.

Regards

Fred

[Flying Pig]

8 hours ago, DCB said:

and the valve gear looks nice unlike the ugly Hornby TT120 version...

 

The valve gear is streets ahead of the 00 model, never mind TT120.  Does anyone know what it is likely to be made of?  It looks as though parts of it might be moulded plastic, but it they could be cast metal.

[BernardTPM]

9 hours ago, maico said:

The last British outline marketed by Marklin might be the Hogwarts express listed in the 2003 and 2005 catalogues.

It may have been made by Hornby?

Yes, those are the revised later 1980s versions of the 1962 Tri-ang Mk.1s and the ex-Airfix (but remotored in the loco) Castle, so 00 rather than H0, though with those couplings you could couple a Hornby 00 Mk.1 with a Lima H0 Mk.1.

[BernardTPM]

13 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

Something to run next to your Rivarossi Royal Scot HO - and a lovely model for the time it was! I have my eye on one on ebay, but not at the price asked!

Though that model was 1:80 H0 scale (like many 1960s Trix models) rather than true 1:87 H0.

[maico]

There is an N gauge Flying Scotsman, LNER, and Mk1 coaches in the German Trix catalogue published 10/1998, the last time it appeared in the Minitrix range AFAIK.

 

Marklin where at that time sorting out the recently acquired Trix company, for example introducing CAD design. Many of the Ho locos shown are 2-rail Marklin based.

Some of Trix's Nurnberg-made rolling stock was excellent, the best made by anyone. Production continued into the Marklin group era and does so today for some items marketed in the Marklin and Trix catalogues.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by maico

[D9020 Nimbus]

Bachmann were planning to import the British Minitrix N gauge models, and (IIRC) announced an agreement to do so — but nothing came of it and they purchased Farish.

[Ravenser]

6 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Bachmann were planning to import the British Minitrix N gauge models, and (IIRC) announced an agreement to do so — but nothing came of it and they purchased Farish.

 

So it appears British outline  Minitrix was dropped not long after Marklin took over Trix? That might lend some substance to my suspicion that Marklin are actively uninterested in the British market.

 

It will be interesting to see what compromises Marklin are making to get this model round curves in a "scale gauge". Someone suggested that the TT A3 measures 25mm wide ( = 9'10") across cylinders when the British loading gauge is a maximum of 9' I believe . Something will have to give - Marklin are unlikely to perpetrate P87 or accept P4 styl;e minimum radii

[jjb1970]

Over the years there's been interest by German, Austrian and other non-UK based producers in the British market. And some have been successful, Heljan have been a part of British outline OO and O for years, and Accurascale are an Irish company. And it's easy to forget that Bachmann are the local subsidiary of a Chinese company. 

 

Going back, both Marklin and Fleischmann dabbled in British outline, as did Rivarossi. Trix were active for a few years, and Minitrix was a staple of British outline N for quite a few years. I am sure there are others, I remember MTH made an O Duchess and matching coaches, and Arnold (admittedly part of Hornby) did the Brighton Belle.

 

A few years ago when European outline HO was a much bigger presence in the UK Roco had some talk with their big UK dealers about a British outline model but it never happened.

 

The British market appears to be a big player in the world of model railways, but it has traditionally been very price sensitive, and breaking in to a cost sensitive market with such a presence of existing manufacturers is probably seen as high risk. It's doable, Heljan did it, but the market was different when Heljan established their UK presence and they have been very adept at identifying prototypes and markets not really served by others when they started (such as prototype diesels and RTR O).

 

The time to have done it was prior to Hornsby's move to Chinese production. At that time a Roco model could have transformed British outline. Now we have British outline models which are as good as any others and the opportunity to come in with a superior product has long gone.

 

I can't help feeling that those Roco dealers who spoke to Roco blundered by pushing for British HO. I knew one of the individuals well at the time and his dream was Roco UK outline HO. That increases the commercial risk by orders of magnitude, entering a market which is almost all OO on 16.5 track with a new scale. I think Hornby have probably done it better by developing something new for Britain which aligns internationally.

[sncf231e]

8 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I am sure there are others, I remember MTH made an O Duchess and matching coaches, and Arnold (admittedly part of Hornby) did the Brighton Belle.

3Rd Rail Sunset made a A3 and A4 amongst others:

 

Regards

Fred

[sncf231e]

21 hours ago, Ravenser said:

That might lend some substance to my suspicion that Marklin are actively uninterested in the British market.

 

Märklin has been actively interested in the British market the whole previous century!

Regards

Fred

Edited February 27, 2023 by sncf231e

[maico]

8 hours ago, sncf231e said:

Märklin has been acticely interested in the British market the whole previous century!

Regards

Fred

 

 

 

1929 Spirit fired Marklin Flying Scotsman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by maico

[maico]

On 24/02/2023 at 21:59, murphaph said:

That's exactly the meaning in the German text. Modelled on the current preserved loco condition, which itself represents the 1963 condition with the corridor tender and smoke deflectors.

 

This seems an odd era to model for me as it is not the condition the loco was in when it actually visited H0 markets like the US and Australia. I really don't know who this loco is aimed at, beautiful as it is likely to be. I hope Märklin hasn't made a massive mistake with this. It's expensive even by German standards.

 

Past Marklin Trix museum steamers have tended to sell out. This SNCF loco fetches big money.

On the German Stummi forum someone posted their loco dealer took 14 pre-orders for the Scotsman on the 25th Feb alone.

I don't know what the production run is but 2000-4000 would be typical. I think the 2-rail version may be hard to source.

[sncf231e]

13 minutes ago, maico said:

 

I do not know where you found this picture, but is is not the picture of a Märklin/Trix H0 model. This is:

 

Your picture shows the gauge 1 (1:32) model Märklin made, shown here in my garden:

Regards

Fred

[maico]

1 hour ago, sncf231e said:

I do not know where you found this picture, but is is not the picture of a Märklin/Trix H0 model. This is:

 

Your picture shows the gauge 1 (1:32) model Märklin made, shown here in my garden:

Regards

Fred

 

You are right, it was a dealer photo mixed up. Here's the Trix one in action

 

 

[Ravenser]

14 hours ago, sncf231e said:

Märklin has been actively interested in the British market the whole previous century!

Regards

Fred

 

While Marklin were certainly active in the British market in the earlier decades of the 20th century, to the best of my knowledge they have had minimal involvement with British outline since 1945

 

- The HO Warship model from the late 1960s has been shown. It was certainly not available by the time I got involved in the hobby in the late 1970s

- A Z gauge Class 47 was made as a commission via Z Club UK c 1982. But BernardTPM suggests Marklin simply supplied chassis/mechanism for British made bodies. The venture was initiated by Z Club UK as far as I'm aware, and it was not available to anyone outside their membership (usual HMRC VAT liability issue I expect). It wasn't exactly something Marklin promoted themselves

 

I'm not clear exactly when Minitrix stopped making /selling British outline N. My hazy recollection , as a 4mm modeller , is that it was some years before Bachmann bought Farish (which was approx 2000) . I do recall Farish being the only manufacturer of British N for a number of years, which would push the end of Minitrix back into the early 90s

 

Someone showed a catalogue illustration for some British Minitrix N , which I think was said to be 1998? Was this before Marklin acquired Trix, or after ?  Was this new production , or simply some existing stock Marklin found in the Trix warehouse when they took over?

 

Bachmann were said to be interested in marketing Minitrix, presumably around the same time , but nothing came of it and nothing more was heard of Minitrix in Britain...

 

In contrast , Rivarossi announced a Royal Scot and coaches in 1977, which lingered unsold for a few years (Were they also involved with the Peco Jubilee in N??) Lima introduced a small British range in HO, then a small British range in O before switching to OO. Their OO range was produced for over 20 years , was found in every model shop in the country, and they became the second largest player in OO (And for the later part of it , they were a division of Groupe Riva...). 

 

ViTrains made a 37 and 47 for 6 or 7 years and they were quite widely available here

 

Heljan have been making British outline, now in 2 scales, for 20 years. Before that they had a small number of British plastic building kits for a couple of decades

 

Flieschmann produced a Warship and some Bulleid coaches - the stocks lingered for over a decade . Roco , it was said , flirted with doing a British range 20 years ,(presumably before Flieschmann took them over?) and I think they were Peco's partner for a OO9 loco?

 

But this HO Flying Scotsman is only the 2nd or 3rd British model Marklin have developed and announced in the last 80 years... In all scales combined

 

That's hardly "active in British outline throughout the 20th century".....

[maico]

16 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

Someone showed a catalogue illustration for some British Minitrix N , which I think was said to be 1998? Was this before Marklin acquired Trix, or after ?  Was this new production , or simply some existing stock Marklin found in the Trix warehouse when they took over?

 

Flieschmann produced a Warship and some Bulleid coaches - the stocks lingered for over a decade . Roco , it was said , flirted with doing a British range 20 years ,(presumably before Flieschmann took them over?)

 

Old stock, Trix were in dire financial straits when Markin took them over in 1997. The old factory was finally knocked down in 2019.

Modelleisenbahn Holding, the owner of the Roco took over Fleischmann in 2008. By 2019 activity ceased completely at the factory and it was turned into flats.

[jjb1970]

Some companies seem to divert from their core market almost as a private indulgence. The best example may be Kato, they have made US outline and occasional European outline for decades because it pleases their owner (though I am sure it would not have continued if these diversions weren't profitable).